U.S. Will Not Let Iran Buy Arms When U.N. Embargo Ends: Pompeo

[PeeD]

Guess once Shaheed-149's turboprop enters serial production, the economic-close-air-support problem is solved.

No need for traditional airpower.

For the futures offensive and tactical deterrence requirements yes, manned airpower could be a useful tool.

 

[GWXP]

4) Terror forced the Japanese army to capitulate to the US demands without delay. Two nuclear bombs did what years of war couldn't do.

No. First Japanese military machine was paralyzed when US imposed a naval blockade against Japan and isolated it from oil and iron ore coming from South East Asia

Then was destruction of the Kwantung army in China by the Soviets

Then it was nuclear bomb

Defeat of Kwantung Army and crippling state of Japanese military machine and nuclear bombs forced them to capitulate

7) Turkey's income from tourism was 34.5 billion dollars in 2019. Turkey's budget that year was about 175 billion dollars. That's almost one third. That's basic arithmetic. GDP and government's budget are different things.

"Revenue" doesn't mean revenues of the budget it means revenue of economic agents....And 34bln$ is just 2% of Turkish GDP

9) What happened to 9? You missed it.

I fixed it

It's funny that you talk about WWII when you want to defend air superiority. Air superiority didn't mean much back then. Why are you even talking about 7 decades ago which has no relevance to today's warfare? LOL

Because air force was still crucial in WWII....Allied Air force paralyzed movement of German troops after Normandy invasion, Air force bombed German factories and infrastructure and supply depots...Air force degraded German military machine and in the Pacific it was aircrafts carriers that won war against the Japanese navy

 

[QWECXZ]

No. First Japanese military machine was paralyzed when US imposed a naval blockade against Japan and isolated it from oil and iron ore coming from South East Asia

Then it destruction of the Kwantung army in China by the Soviets

Then it was nuclear bomb

Defeat of Kwantung Army and crippling state of Japanese military machine and nuclear bombs forced them to capitulate

The Japanese decided to continue the war after the first nuclear detonation over Hiroshima. But once they saw that the US repeated it on Nagasaki, they realized that they had no other way but to submit to their demands.

"Revenue" doesn't mean revenues of the budget it means revenue of economic agents....And 34bln$ is just 2% of Turkish GDP

If you don't know the difference between GDP and government's budget, then that's your problem, not mine. A country is run by the government's budget, not by GDP.

Because air force was still crucial in WWII....Allied Air force paralyzed movement of German troops after Normandy invasion, Air force bombed German factories and infrastructure and supply depots...Air force degraded German military machine and in the Pacific it was aircrafts carriers that won war against the Japanese navy

What truly degraded German's military machine was their mistake of opening a new front with the Soviet Union at the wrong time. Not to mention that Germany was by far the world's leading force in the world when it came to both missiles and air force. Germans literally invented missiles and jet fighters.

 

[GWXP]

Nowhere has anyone made the statement that airforce is "crap". You are now resorting to straw-man arguments.
As for ballistic missiles, it is common sense that not every nations will have the ability to produce accurate ballistic missiles. The rest of world are limited in terms of what they can buy. Unless you can make your own systems, then you are limited by INF treaty and so on.



It is common knowledge that airpower alone cannot win a war. That is what @QWECXZ is trying to tell you. As for the rest of your comment, refer to what I said about.




Right, because CENTCOM would have enough info that make claims such as how many missiles Iran has. Even they themselves admitted they cannot be certain. Unless you have any actual substance to claim IRGC is not being honest, then refrain from making "propaganda" accusations.



You're comparing apples and oranges.



I suggest you listen to what the actual experts say:

Here is an Israeli experts lauding Iran's method of waging war as compared to the west when using their fighter jets.



What does Abqaiq have to do with a power plant? You do realise only containers were hit, right? A power plant comprises of turbines, control rooms etc.



I am still waiting to hear how a country will continue to run without electrical powers.



There is a difference between something not being essential and it not being very useful.



Even the most amateur analysts can see the reason why Syria and Pro-Syrian forces are not replying to those attacks is to prevent escalation given Syria is no position right now to open a new front.



First start by learning the difference between an actual power plant and something like Abqaiq. As for air fields being fixed in 5 hours, I think you've been watching too many movies.



Germany's army were continuing to fight due to hitlers delusion. Hitler had lost the war but did not choose to realise it. And if you chose not to realise that an army cannot continue to fight effectively once a nation's vital supplies have been destroyed, then I suppose this is a cause of "khodeto be khab zadi".



Actually, he has a point. Almost every single point you're making is ahistorical and not based on rationality and reality.




Flawed logic. A fighter jet will probably be shot down, a ballistic missiles? not likely so.



No one system will win the war. No one is making these claims. You are showing to have little to no comprehension of the overall picture. You are indeed thinking in computer game terms where nothing else matters except your jets. You seem to think these jets will not need an airfields, fuel. You don't seem to think a nation needs power to continue to run.



"Ballistic missiles are low tech". I mean you lose almost all credibility by just that one statement. It seems your entire views are upside down.




My "amateur" theories are being backed by what experts are saying, how about you?

you can continue living in a world with own theory of warfare backed by 1-2 "experts" believing that 2700 missiles is better than air force...

But once you exhausted your missiles in several days and war is still going and military balance is not shattered while enemy air force makes hundreds and hundreds of sorties---don't be surprised

BTW you can make research of US analysis of Chinese ballistic missiles attacking Kadena air base in Japan and how quickly runways can be repaired---5-7 hours

You are also free to offer me information showing that ballistic missiles can decimate electricity generation for a long time.

If you don't know the difference between GDP and government's budget, then that's your problem, not mine. A country is run by the government's budget, not by GDP.

You are free to provide me with a link showing that 34billion from tourism goes to government budget instead of being portion of Turkish GDP

Not to mention that Germany was by far the world's leading force in the world when it came to both missiles and air force. Germans literally invented missiles and jet fighters.

Yet German ballistic missiles were of little relevance.....And US was the country that produced twice as much fighter jets as Germany did

 

[Philosopher]

you can continue living in a world with own theory of warfare backed by 1-2 "experts" believing that 2700 missiles is better than air force...

Those 1-2 experts are world renowned.

But once you exhausted your missiles in several days and war is still going and military balance is not shattered while enemy air force makes hundreds and hundreds of sorties---don't be surprised

No, not at all. You are assuming:

1- Once those missiles have been "exhausted" that they will even be able to fly all those planes.
2- Those fighter jets will not be shot down

Minus the US, none of these regional nations have a considerable SEAD capability.

BTW you can make research of US analysis of Chinese ballistic missiles attacking Kadena air base in Japan and how quickly runways can be repaired---5-7 hours

It's not just the runway you have to think of. Think about the planes themselves being wiped out, the facilities needed to repair those planes. Broaden your thinking.

You are also free to offer me information showing that ballistic missiles can decimate electricity generation

Electricity generation is made in physical plants. What will happen when those plants are destroyed?

 

[QWECXZ]

you can continue living in a world with own theory of
You are free to provide me with a link showing that 34billion from tourism goes to government budget instead of being portion of Turkish GDP

It is not about whether the Turkish income from tourism goes into the government's budget or not. GDP accounts for the value of goods and services produced inside the country as well. Iran's GDP is 450 billion dollars. Our exports are possibly capped at 50 billion dollars. Stalling tourism will impact money that enters Turkey from outside. A war will stop foreign direct investments and tourism. I'm surprised you can't get something so easy.

Yet German ballistic missiles were of little relevance.....And US was the country that produced twice as much fighter jets as Germany did

LMAO Germany was literally the only country in WWII that used operational jet fighters. V2 missiles that Germans used on London traumatized Londoners for years after that.

 

[Philosopher]

There is no question that if Iran had a "powerful" airforce, that it could indeed complement its existing missile force. However the question is one of necessity. Is Iran in dire need of such an airforce so that it will be go and spend billions on it? I have seen no indications that Iran will do this, nor do I think it needs it. I think if Iran is still thinking of manned systems (and not decided unmanned are indeed the future), then you will see gradual increase, mostly via indigenous routes (TOT from outside can help greatly). A few dozen new jets may be procured, but don't hold your breaths for anything substantial.

 

[GWXP]

Those 1-2 experts are world renowned and their expert opinion is worth more than someone on a forum without any real experience, right?

The problem is that this is not just my opinion....This is military theory accepted all over the world...

That air force is used to support own ground force by degrading enemy ground forces, infrastructure, provide close air support, paralyze enemy supply lines and prevent reinforcements from arriving.

You need tens of thousands of sorties for that and ballistic missiles can't do it

 

[Rukarl]

you can continue living in a world with own theory of warfare backed by 1-2 "experts" believing that 2700 missiles is better than air force...

But once you exhausted your missiles in several days and war is still going and military balance is not shattered while enemy air force makes hundreds and hundreds of sorties---don't be surprised

BTW you can make research of US analysis of Chinese ballistic missiles attacking Kadena air base in Japan and how quickly runways can be repaired---5-7 hours

You are also free to offer me information showing that ballistic missiles can decimate electricity generation for a long time.


You are free to provide me with a link showing that 34billion from tourism goes to government budget instead of being portion of Turkish GDP



Yet German ballistic missiles were of little relevance.....And US was the country that produced twice as much fighter jets as Germany did

Both of you are right. You make good valid points and our friend philosopher too.

I am afraid i have to side with philosopher here. Given the huge amount of financial and material resource Iran's enemies have it is indeed a waste of time to put up some sort of challenge. Any jet that Iran is going to field the US and her allies will immediately overpower it. No question about that.

During a total war between Iran and the US the Iranian airfoce will be mostly absent and instead heavily relying on its AD system and Ballistic missile units. To even seriously engage any US(-allied) aircraft is a serious waste of time and money.

 

[GWXP]

It is not about whether the Turkish income from tourism goes into the government's budget or not. GDP accounts for the value of goods and services produced inside the country as well. Iran's GDP is 450 billion dollars. Our exports are possibly capped at 50 billion dollars. Stalling tourism will impact money that enters Turkey from outside. A war will stop foreign direct investments and tourism. I'm surprised you can't get something so easy.

Since tourism accounts for 2% of Turkish GDP,if suddenly all tourists disappear, 80mln Turkish state will barely notice it....

LMAO Germany was literally the only country in WWII that used operational jet fighters. V2 missiles that Germans used on London traumatized Londoners for years after that.

 

[Philosopher]

This is military theory accepted all over the world...

There are many military theories out there, you're focusing on just one. As you can see, many experts have differing views.

That air force is used to support own ground force by degrading enemy ground forces, infrastructure, provide close air support, paralyze enemy supply lines and prevent reinforcements from arriving.

I understand the use of an airforce. Look, you can go in circles all day, but you're not going to change the reality that Iran is not going to spend tremendous amount of cash to build this airforce you want it to. Not only is it not in a dire need of it, it is not wise to try and counter its foes by building an airforce to change this balance of power you have in mind. The fact is, Iran is powerful enough today that no nation will fire a bullet towards it directly. Where Iran needs some new jets is for support in places like Syria. If I could wave a magic wound and give Iran 400 SU-35 tomorrow, I would. But in real term, it will cost too much money, take too long. If you see Iran do the opposite of what I just said, then be sure to tag me and show me I was wrong.

 

[QWECXZ]

Since tourism accounts for 2% of Turkish GDP,if suddenly all tourists disappear, 80mln Turkish state will barely notice it....

They will notice it very well when their currency devalues like Iranian rial after US sanctions.

View attachment 629956

Not every airplane uses jet engine. You get that. Right?

 

[GWXP]

They will notice it very well when their currency devalues like Iranian rial after US sanctions.

Turkish exports brings 180bln$ of hard currency to Turkish market-----plus 34bln$ from tourist---plus 20bln$ from capital inflows

Overall some 234bln$ dollars of hard currency inflows into Turkey each year......If 34bln$ from tourists disappear (15% of hard currency flow)----Turkish currency will devalue by some 10-15%---this devaluation will slightly increase inflation--anyway it is no big deal and certainly not even close to rial devaluation after US sanctions

Not every airplane uses jet engine. You get that. Right?

So what? Allies overproduced Germany and crushed it....jet engine, V-1 and some 5000 V-2 didn't help the Germans

 

[QWECXZ]

Turkish exports brings 180bln$ of hard currency to Turkish market-----plus 34bln$ from tourist---plus 20bln$ from capital inflows

Overall some 234bln$ dollars of hard currency inflows into Turkey each year......If 34bln$ from tourists disappear (15% of hard currency flow)----Turkish currency will devalue by some 10-15%---this devaluation will slightly increase inflation--anyway it is no big deal and certainly not even close to rial devaluation after US sanctions

Add 22 billion dollars of foreign direct investments. And then add real estate to it. Besides the fact that the Turkish currency is already not very stable.

So what? Allies overproduced Germany and crushed it....jet engine, V-1 and some 5000 V-2 didn't help the Germans

LOL. You are wasting my time. Jet fighters didn't help the Germans either. The German Air Force was decades ahead of others in terms of technology and innovations. So, what's your point? If technology of airplanes doesn't matter and only numbers matter, then Iran's air force outnumbers many of our neighbors.

Seriously, talking to you about this has become a waste of time. I think I have made my points clear. I see no reason to continue this. See you later

 

[Arminkh]

I think that's by far the most ridiculous argument I have heard in a while. The full text of the JCPOA is available online.
And Europeans and Russians have never denied the existence of the snapback mechanism. If your knowledge is limited, do not bring informed people in it to support your false claim.



What if Boris Johnson steps in for the US? Ever considered that? Pompeo is already discussing it with him.

It is because you have not red the resolution. Paragraph 10 of the resolution calls the US and others "JCPOA participants" . The snapback can be triggered by one of the JCPOA participants and JCPOA is part of the resolution 2231. US cannot announce it is exiting JCPOA and still call itself JCPOA participant.
I also refer you to paragraph 37 of the JCPOA laying down the steps that will lead to the paragraph 11 of the resolution. US cannot just jump on paragraph 11 without going through those steps as paragraph 10 expresses the security Council intention to address possible complaints through procedure specified in JCPOA.