U.S. suspends cooperation on jet engine technology with India

[Smarana Mitra]

As someone following Tejas' history from here, the LCA program was scuttled due to sanctions and refusal to return India's own research work submitted to Boeing for consulting purposes. India needs to put pressure on domestic production.

I am sure there are geniuses out there who are not being utilized correctly.

Who sends their work to someone else without making another copy? Indian Tejas was delayed by sanctions because India had the idea of leapfrogging whereby India develops some parts and imports some other and eventually indigenises everything. This was hit because of sanctions. But Indian work continued.

Don't be self delusion. Kaveri until now is still a failure. No demonstrated as a usable and operational engine on Tejas or anyother fighter jets.

AL3FP claiming as licenses product is a myth. Many core parts are still needed to be imported from Russia with final assemble in India as domestic product engine. No country is stupid enough to all full TOT for a decent class jet engine no matter how much u paid.

End of the day, India learn nothing much from this license produced scheme. More of the hardwork still need to be produced by India themselves which until now has not materialise. India missed the boat of getting Ukraine to join them in such bid as Chinese has already rope them in with their tech and engineerers. These left Indian without much choice. France and UK will still be just another US with strict off limit for crucial TOT or share knowledge for high end jet engine.

Kaveri was meant to have 78kN and it has 81kN. This is success. India has said many times that dry version will be used in development of AURA/Ghatak 5th generation UAV. The dry version is the core of the engine and its completion means that engine is ready. But Kaveri won't be used in Tejas as Tejas design changed to become slightly bigger. Also, now, Tejas MK1 is considered as too small and hence limited to small production number only to gain expertise in manufacturing. So, there is no need to change engine from F404 to Kaveri and create logistica problems. India will stop Tejas MK1 production by 2025 and start Tejas MK2 production. It makes no sense to use Kaveri engine for small duration.

Al31FP is fully India made without imports. Even China has Al31F engines technology. The technology was given because when Russian economy was hit by USSR dissolution, and India and China helped by giving loans and sharing their industry to make goods for Russia which was otherwise scattered in the former USSR republics which had split away.

Ukraine may have had some technology, but it was limited to making big engine for ships. India does not have dearth of talent but does not have design. Even talented people still need time to make designs that work. India has already made Kaveri as I mentioned above and is already developing 110lkN engine for Tejas MK2 and AMCA. India does not rely on some one else and is developing on its own just like others did. France is only selling Rafale airframe design and India will fit Kaveri in it (just like Rafale fit F404 in 990s test trial). France isn't giving any technology

 

[Sid Dogra]

Who sends their work to someone else without making another copy? Indian Tejas was delayed by sanctions because India had the idea of leapfrogging whereby India develops some parts and imports some other and eventually indigenises everything. This was hit because of sanctions. But Indian work continued.

My point is, relying too much for strategic reasons on any one country, especially someone as fickle-minded as the United States in the matters of technology cooperation, is risky.

I don't know much but there was an interview some time ago by the LCA program chief who had mentioned this. I am paraphrasing his words. Outside of the white countries and Israel, the USA will never share any information with anyone. That's something India needs to understand. It is not racism; it is just that they cooperate only within their alliance.

Indian scientists should continue cooperating with the French and the Russians instead. They may be expensive, but better that than left hanging.

 

[Baby Leone]

US must have been milked India enough from 2012 until the suspension

Indians are like a person who saved money for years with just having small little meals and no clothes and then wasted the money to show off without a single gain or return.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

My point is, relying too much for strategic reasons on any one country, especially someone as fickle-minded as the United States in the matters of technology cooperation, is risky.

I don't know much but there was an interview some time ago by the LCA program chief who had mentioned this. I am paraphrasing his words. Outside of the white countries and Israel, the USA will never share any information with anyone. That's something India needs to understand. It is not racism; it is just that they cooperate only within their alliance.

Indian scientists should continue cooperating with the French and the Russians instead. They may be expensive, but better that than left hanging.

India knows that USA is not trustworthy. That is why India did not take any strategic weapons from USA. Even France is a white country and don't cooperate with India. So, France is not reliable either. Only Russia is reliable partner due to Russian culture being significantly different and due to bitter experience with Western Europe due to Roman-Orthodox cold-war. Israel is reliable but lacks any meaningful technology of its own. Israel relies on USA imports for most of the items. Though Israel is reliable by itself, it does not have much of its own technological hardware to share.

 

[pakpride00090]

India knows that USA is not trustworthy. That is why India did not take any strategic weapons from USA. Even France is a white country and don't cooperate with India. So, France is not reliable either. Only Russia is reliable partner due to Russian culture being significantly different and due to bitter experience with Western Europe due to Roman-Orthodox cold-war. Israel is reliable but lacks any meaningful technology of its own. Israel relies on USA imports for most of the items. Though Israel is reliable by itself, it does not have much of its own technological hardware to share.

Even Russian rejected you in Fifth generation fighter program. They weren't willing to share critical technologies with you even after India was willingly to spend billions of dollars.

 

[Beast]

Who sends their work to someone else without making another copy? Indian Tejas was delayed by sanctions because India had the idea of leapfrogging whereby India develops some parts and imports some other and eventually indigenises everything. This was hit because of sanctions. But Indian work continued.


Kaveri was meant to have 78kN and it has 81kN. This is success. India has said many times that dry version will be used in development of AURA/Ghatak 5th generation UAV. The dry version is the core of the engine and its completion means that engine is ready. But Kaveri won't be used in Tejas as Tejas design changed to become slightly bigger. Also, now, Tejas MK1 is considered as too small and hence limited to small production number only to gain expertise in manufacturing. So, there is no need to change engine from F404 to Kaveri and create logistica problems. India will stop Tejas MK1 production by 2025 and start Tejas MK2 production. It makes no sense to use Kaveri engine for small duration.

Al31FP is fully India made without imports. Even China has Al31F engines technology. The technology was given because when Russian economy was hit by USSR dissolution, and India and China helped by giving loans and sharing their industry to make goods for Russia which was otherwise scattered in the former USSR republics which had split away.

Ukraine may have had some technology, but it was limited to making big engine for ships. India does not have dearth of talent but does not have design. Even talented people still need time to make designs that work. India has already made Kaveri as I mentioned above and is already developing 110lkN engine for Tejas MK2 and AMCA. India does not rely on some one else and is developing on its own just like others did. France is only selling Rafale airframe design and India will fit Kaveri in it (just like Rafale fit F404 in 990s test trial). France isn't giving any technology

Delusion has no limits... If India can fully absorb AL-31FP tech from Russian. You wouldnt have so much problem making Kaveri. China has AL-31F tech not becos Russia sold us the tech but becos of our strong advance industrialization that we can solve the problem ourselves. Indian not demonstrated any capabilities of fully making a decent level of turbofan.

 

[The Eagle]

India and the United States have suspended cooperation on jet engine technology under the Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) that seeks to deepen bilateral cooperation and identify opportunities for sharing of high-end defence technologies, a senior Pentagon official revealed on Thursday.

There was too much hope over this but then again, US just did what it should have done. The way few posts describes that there was no co-operation, read the excerpt and details in Op again.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Delusion has no limits... If India can fully absorb AL-31FP tech from Russian. You wouldnt have so much problem making Kaveri. China has AL-31F tech not becos Russia sold us the tech but becos of our strong advance industrialization that we can solve the problem ourselves. Indian not demonstrated any capabilities of fully making a decent level of turbofan.

India has already made Kaveri engine. Why don't you understand? India has made official statement saying that Kaveri engine will not be used in Tejas but its core without after burner will be used in 5th generation UAV called Ghatak.

If you have a question as to why India does not use Kaveri in Tejas, the answer is that Tejas was initially made to be similar to MiG2 but later on changed its design and became heavier. But the Kaveri engine design remained unchanged and hence Kaveri became unsuited for Tejas. So, India has Kaveri engine technology but is not usable due to lack of appropriate aircrafts.

India has also absorbed Al31F technology from Russia. Don't hallucinate and live in your imaginary world. Read the website of HAL Koraput :

https://hal-india.co.in/Sukhoi Engine Division Koraput/M__140

https://hal-india.co.in/Engine Division Koraput/M__138

Even Russian rejected you in Fifth generation fighter program. They weren't willing to share critical technologies with you even after India was willingly to spend billions of dollars.

Russia will not give latest technology but shares 1 generation older technology. USA does not even do that. Moreover, Russia does not prohibit India from learning its equipments through reverse engineering and disassembling whereas USA imposes inspections and other restrictions

 

[I S I]

Who cares about inferior American jet tech. Indians built Ramjet engines in vedic times when it wasn't even cool to build one. Huh

India has already made Kaveri engine. Why don't you understand? India has made official statement saying that Kaveri engine will not be used in Tejas but its core without after burner will be used in 5th generation UAV called Ghatak.

It tells a lot about your Jet Engine's performance when after 30 years of R&D, you end up powering up a fkin UAV with it instead of an actual modern jet which it was meant for since day 1. Lmao

 

[Smarana Mitra]

It tells a lot about your Jet Engine's performance when after 30 years of R&D, you end up powering up a fkin UAV with it instead of an actual modern jet which it was meant for since day 1. Lmao

Do you understand the difference between design and technology? The design of Kaveri is insufficient for Tejas, not its technology. Don't comment with smart words when you don't know about a topic

 

[LuCiFeR_DeCoY]

Lol that was the final nail. Anyway this has been part of US policy for quite some time. They expected India to be confrontational with China, that hasn't happened hence all the roll back. Many of the Indians are starting to wake up now, before some were writing on here that the US will send carrier groups to destroy China with the IN, that India and US will launch joint terror strikes on Pakistan etc. The delusion of these idiots knows no bounds.

It played a huge part but don't underestimate your PM either. I am following US politics far a long time and if I am not wrong your prime minister made a positive impact on US policy makers especially on congress.
When it comes to India, if they cook briyani in their dream they can drop as much ghee as they want nobody gonna stop them.

 

[I S I]

Do you understand the difference between design and technology? The design of Kaveri is insufficient for Tejas, not its technology. Don't comment with smart words when you don't know about a topic

Cry me a ganga

 

[cloud4000]

It's ironic that so many Indian-origin engineers work for US defense companies, making some of the most advanced military technology yet Indian own defence industry is years behind. Something is not right.

 

[salarsikander]

. Something is not right.

Time to Ditch The NRi status and return back to Bharat Mata ? Its about time you too Invest back in India with whatever you have learned in US

 

[Avicenna]

Major loss for the US!

Imagine missing out on all that Indian expertise!

don't it hurt your ears to listen to this?

Oh man.

It's so entertaining!