U.S. Military Taught Officers ‘Hiroshima’ Tactics for ‘Total War’ on Islam

[Juice]

I understand. So do the Americans. It is part and parcel of war gaming.



I understand that there will be over a billion very pissed off people worldwide. That is not in question. Their collective response is.

Institutional, Military and Asymmetric. Social and Cultural and Economic. Civilian - unfriendly and friendly collateral. That is all part of war gaming.

If you do not understand your enemy and predict his moves, all you can do when the time comes is depend on training and react situationally. Most advanced military powers do not find that adequate anymore.



The midle east oil fields will not be damaged. Not by the Americans. Nor allowed to the locals by means of sabotage. Two Gulf Wars as well as the 10 year Iran-Iraq war before should have shown you how it can and will be done.

The military might of the enemy will be neutralized first. As will Pakistani nukes in the first wave. Followed by tactical bombing of utilities and infrastructure. Power grids, railroads, bridges, dams, water works, refineries, fuel depots.

If that does not bring the countries to their knees, this would in all probability then be followed by nukes on small to medium sized urban pockets. Casualties sub-hundred thousand, timed and executed to limit fallout (seasonal, wind patterns, etc.).



Occupation will not be the objective. Quarantine will.

Neighboring countries will be forced to close their borders and forcibly prevent survivors from streaming across to escape the fallout.

No nation will stand in the way of American nukes and the victim nation.



This will all have been played out in the war gaming. Pakistan nukes will be neutralized before the first wave. Not just by American special forces, but by Russian and Chinese ones in tandem.

Worst case scenario, Pakistan does get a few off and India gets hit. Collateral friendly casualties in a few hundreds of thousands. Maybe millions. Not near to an existential threat. It will never come close to that were Pakistan to start assembling. NFU is a doctrine. It is not the word of God. That will also be part of the war gaming.

Please remember that neither will India stand in the way, nor will the US back off for India. Its the price we pay for where we are and who our neighbor is. It is also something that the Indian war machine will be war gaming for in its own way for when and if the time comes.

As will the Israelis and the Chinese.

There will be no uninterested parties here.

Is it OK to say you scare me more than the mindless Jihadis? (thinking foes are ALWAYS more dangerous, I hope we stay allies)

Of course you would Juice. But the point we make and are critical of Cheng is that he is too often tries to tell Pakistan what is best for it as a Pakistanis. As long as it is accepted that that is from an American perspective we do not take issue.

btw lay down your life is a bit of emotional drama for you is it not? lol


Because they are American proxies. Why would you want to eliminate your proxies lol

I was in the army, Aryan, we were trained that way (and yes, good drama)

 

[Juice]

Of course you would Juice. But the point we make and are critical of Cheng is that he is too often tries to tell Pakistan what is best for it as a Pakistanis. As long as it is accepted that that is from an American perspective we do not take issue.

btw lay down your life is a bit of emotional drama for you is it not? lol





Because they are American proxies. Why would you want to eliminate your proxies lol

Yeah, a little dramatic, but trust me , true. We are trained to fight that way.

(oops, double post. Is there any way to fix this?)

 

[lem34]

Yeah, a little dramatic, but trust me , true. We are trained to fight that way.

(oops, double post. Is there any way to fix this?)

Trust you on anything Juice but your army- no way

Just delete it mate it happens occasionally I think- do not know why

 

[Developereo]

the third kind are ready made fodder for all the present and future campaigns "of freedom" in the world where ever Uncle Sam decides to park his military.
the second kind indeed is being constantly bombarded with movies, talk shows, articles and surveys and what not and thee are effects of this campaign. you will really have to struggle to find an unqualified condemnation of any sort of atrocities committed by the Americans.
on the contrary you will find tributes to the people who have made their own video footage of killing and collecting body parts of civilians as trophies.

so you will see
certain kind of individuals who deny that such tendency exists also maybe only few moments ago they would have praised the pilots of Apache that rained bullets on Civilians in Baghdad killing children and Associated press reporter

The whole tactic of the hate-mongers is to erode the edges of acceptability so that what was taboo yesterday becomes controversial today, and what is controversial today becomes an alternative platform tomorrow. Like Dooley here, there are right wing loonies like Michele Malkin who actually proposed WW2-style internment camps. Mind you, this is for American Muslims, so you can well imagine what they propose for the rest of Muslims.

The whole media hysteria about Obama being Muslims was surreal. To think that America had fallen so far from its ideals to have leading mainstream personalities baying for blood like that was incredible. That is when Colin Powell stood out from the crowd and showed his titanium moral fiber.

 

[Developereo]

When any of these failures allowed a 'regime change', then we will explore those options. You cannot avoid the reality that contestants to governmental powers and authority can end in either a 'regime change' or dissolution of a country. With the latter, there is no need for US to 'nuke' anyone.

We are not doing a wild goose chase here where you keep shifting goalposts and erecting straw-man arguments in a desperate bid to sustain your premise. The issue here is Dooley's course and the promotion of a certain ideology to US soldiers in an official setting.

Where in Dooley's course does he list 'regime change' as a prerequisite for his scenario?

The goal of Al-Qaeda is not merely to control but to CHANGE the Islamic world into the image of what Al-Qaeda believe that world should be.

Again, the issue here is not AQ's goal, but the role of mainstream Muslims. Drug traffickers have a 'goal' to have the whole world as their client. So what?

Your arguments regarding the drug cartels and the pirates continues to fail and reveals your intellectual dishonesty.

It seems that way to you only because you constantly duck the issue, given that it is indefensible.

One of the goals of Islamic terrorists is to convince the muslim warriors to obey an alternate set of rules of war. Part of that process is to act in accordance to those alternate rules. And it looks like the arguments are convincing enough in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even some here approved of those alternate rules by framing those tactics as 'asymmetric warfare'.

Weaker opponents always resort to alternative means, especially when they operate outside the law. Once again, drug lords and pirates fit that label and, once again, there is no contingency for the US military to follow suit and start nuking their cities in retaliation.

 

[Developereo]

The analogy breaks down simply because only one of the groups above has actually attacked USA (hint: it is not the Somalis or the Latinos).

I suggest you educate yourself on the death toll from drug-related crimes in the US. Even discounting crimes committed by US nationals and focusing solely on fatalities caused by direct operatives of the Latin American drug syndicates, the numbers will absolutely dwarf terrorism any day of the week.

Further, the "moderates" who support the militants by condoning the attacks themselves by definition may not be all that "moderate".

Given your use of quotes around the word moderates, I won't dignify that with a reply.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I suggest you educate yourself on the death toll from drug-related crimes in the US. Even discounting crimes committed by US nationals and focusing solely on fatalities caused by direct operatives of the Latin American drug syndicates, the numbers will absolutely dwarf terrorism any day of the week.

That is very true.

Terrorism is a horrifying thing no doubt, however the chances of the average person on Earth dying from a terrorist attack are very low. The average person is a thousand times more likely to die in a car accident.

The fear of terrorism has been blown out of all proportion (relative to the death toll), ironically by the same people who always say "If we show fear then the terrorists have won".

 

[Developereo]

What you never bring up, is "why" is there this anti-muslim feeling?

Because it is a red herring. Of course we all know why there is anti-Muslim feeling. There is anti-black feeling, anti-Jewish feeling, anti-Hindu feeling, and anti-latino feeling, among others. Despite all the education, there is always an element of bigotry which surfaces when society comes under stress. The difference is that all these other anti- feelings are quickly brought under control and people don't act them out.

In the case of Muslims, the media and certain opportunistic elements have used the terrorism issue to stoke the bigotry and to channel people's xenophobia towards one group as an acceptable outlet.

Again, no one has any issue with combating criminals; it is the wholesale generalizations and stereotyping that we are talking about here.

That is very true.

Terrorism is a horrifying thing no doubt, however the chances of the average person on Earth dying from a terrorist attack are very low. The average person is a thousand times more likely to die in a car accident.

The fear of terrorism has been blown out of all proportion (relative to the death toll), ironically by the same people who always say "If we show fear then the terrorists have won".

Well, I don't want to compare it to accidents or diseases because they are a different category. But the situation with drug dealers who specifically terrorize entire neighborhoods into submission and who wield enormous influence over weak governments in developing countries, is an apt comparison.

 

[KS]

You have to thank USA for maintaining stability in the middle east between Sunni and Shia influence. Otherwise, if the balance tilted in any one's favour the result would be bloodshed.

This I agree. Without the external [relatively] stabilizing force in the region the Middle East would be doing what it does best - fight amongst yourself.

 

[King Solomon]

Because it is a red herring. Of course we all know why there is anti-Muslim feeling. There is anti-black feeling, anti-Jewish feeling, anti-Hindu feeling, and anti-latino feeling, among others. Despite all the education, there is always an element of bigotry which surfaces when society comes under stress. The difference is that all these other anti- feelings are quickly brought under control and people don't act them out.

In the case of Muslims, the media and certain opportunistic elements have used the terrorism issue to stoke the bigotry and to channel people's xenophobia towards one group as an acceptable outlet.

Again, no one has any issue with combating criminals; it is the wholesale generalizations and stereotyping that we are talking about here.

The (conventional) muslim culture is vastly different compared to Jewish, latino, hindu or blacks. The nature of the culture matters.

eg. These groups don't insist their women should be oppressed in black veils from head to toe or the ridiculous headcover. These groups don't carry out suicide bombing and terrorist attacks. These groups do not insist on keeping big, unshaven beards while going to workplace. These groups do not give ridiculous fatwas for example "women must not touch bananas/carrots because....(lets spare this part) and people must drink co-worker's breast milk". These groups do not call for their norm (eg Sharia law) to be implemented in US or Europe. These groups don't tell people to kill all infidel kafirs. These people do not forbid women to go to work. These people do not hail Osama and other terrorists. Should I go on...?

The fact remains that these (funny and ridiculous) characteristics make Muslims a laughing stock in the civilized world. Frankly, I don't blame them at all. Any person with common sense will realize how ridiculous the above stuffs sounds

Note: The above "features" are in no way supported by Koran/Islam. So, I'm not blaming Islam here but the conventional Mullah-twisted way it is practiced nowadays. This fil.th needs to be cleaned A.S.A.P.

This I agree. Without the external [relatively] stabilizing force in the region the Middle East would be doing what it does best - fight amongst yourself.

Indeed. People do not realize that without US Naval presence in the Gulf, Middle east would be up in flames by now with shia-sunni war and no Jew would be left in the world.

 

[Developereo]

The (conventional) muslim culture is vastly different compared to Jewish, latino, hindu or blacks. The nature of the culture matters.

eg. These groups don't insist their women should be oppressed in black veils from head to toe or the ridiculous headcover. These groups don't carry out suicide bombing and terrorist attacks. These groups do not insist on keeping big, unshaven beards while going to workplace. These groups do not give ridiculous fatwas for example "women must not touch bananas/carrots because....(lets spare this part) and people must drink co-worker's breast milk". These groups do not call for their norm (eg Sharia law) to be implemented in US or Europe. These groups don't tell people to kill all infidel kafirs. These people do not forbid women to go to work. These people do not hail Osama and other terrorists. Should I go on...?

Please don't expose your ignorance of facts.

You started talking of conventional culture and then quickly launched into a rant about extremists.

There are extremist groups in all religions that advocate precisely the things you mentioned. Just because the global media doesn't highlight them and you are ignorant of them does not change reality.

 

[KS]

Because it is a red herring.

No it is not. The suspicion or wariness about Islam [I would not say hate, atleast till now] is mostly because of the resurgence of Islamic terrorism worldwide either on a I_cant_live_with_you notion based secessionist movements or the more general Islam vs rest jihadi mentality. It is because of the ultra-radical, intolerant form of Islam that is preached in neighbourhood madarsahs and young minds falling prey to it and writing away their lives for the greater glory of Allah and all the promised bounties. It is because of the continued attempt to blast subways, towers, night clubs, cities - sometimes succesfully unfortunately, based on a deviant religious agenda. These are some of the reasons that come to my mind immediately why there is a rise in Islamophobia around the world and why it was not there even some 3 decades ago.

Ofcourse history too plays a part like in subcontinent. But that is far less a contributory factor than the reasons listed above.

In the case of Muslims, the media and certain opportunistic elements have used the terrorism issue to stoke the bigotry and to channel people's xenophobia towards one group as an acceptable outlet.

I dont think it has become acceptable, atleast for now..but the risk of it becoming acceptable is very real if that oft proclaimed group called "moderate muslims" fail to raise their hands and take control of this religion that is fast becoming the private jagir of the radicals. Non-muslims judge Islam by what Muslims do and not what the Muslims claim Islam is. The faster the likes of you understand that and stop rationalizing those acts by Islamic radicals the better for all - specially for you.

 

[King Solomon]

Please don't expose your ignorance of facts.

You started talking of conventional culture and then quickly launched into a rant about extremists.

There are extremist groups in all religions that advocate precisely the things you mentioned.

Then why is it that it is only the Islamic extremists who always manage to gather hundreds of thousands of followers?

Personally, I've come across many of them during my stay on the forum...

 

[KS]

There are extremist groups in all religions that advocate precisely the things you mentioned. Just because you are ignorant of them does not change reality.

There are extremist groups in all religions - but none of them hold sway over the majority moderate mass the way radicals in Islam do. In other words, in no religion is the majority moderate group so powerless, voiceless, static as Islam. There are a variety of reasons for that phenomenon.

 

[Vinod2070]

depends on the value of lives..
The deterrence is just that..
The Israelis fight for each life they call their own..
On the other hand.. Pakistanis hold little value for life when it comes to religion...whats losing 50 million when such a catastrophe has occurred.

Not really true. This may look fine on an anonymous internet forum, when the shyt hits the roof things will be totally different.

The best hope is it doesn't come to pass.