U.S. Military Taught Officers ‘Hiroshima’ Tactics for ‘Total War’ on Islam

[King Solomon]

Preserving.

Anyways, you seem to take everything on this forum 2 facedly.
The deaths of Non-Muslims are condemnable because they're innocent beings; the deaths and killings of Muslims are not because it is a Holy Act which God himself is masterplanning behind the Scenes. Yes, the same God which claims in his Book that he is eternally Merciful and the accounts of the wrongdoes shall only be taken after their deaths.

You are trying to play semantics here. Answer this first:

Had the cleaning been done by a so-called "islamic" country like pakistan, you would support it. Heck, God is also using Pakistan to do the cleaning - Taliban of pakistans who are being killed everyday. You DO support THIS cleaning, don't you? If you do, don't be a hypocrite and come back to reality.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

You are trying to play semantics here. Answer this first:

Hah, you're comparing apples with roses. Taliban are not common citizens; it's an organisation who's main purpose is kill kill kill.

The civilians of Iraq, be they Sunni Muslim or Shia Muslim, are are bunch of people which don't deserve to be killed like dogs by the "saviour" USA. God is not cruel buddy, please don't Slander him by saying he's supporting a Terrorist.

 

[SMC]

A typical scene during academic discussion in USA (do listen till the end):

Please note how all views are said, and with emotion too, but openly and fairly.

This is in Canada.

 

[VCheng]

This is in Canada.

I was sent this link by someone as I have described it, but the point is the frankness of the discussion is quite typical.

 

[vsdoc]

Yes! They do. And this is why they do not take such a bold step. They are not idiots.

Remember 9/11? Most terrorists involved are believed to be Saudi Nationals. And yet! Saudi Arabia was not attacked. Does this gives you any hint?

War-gaming can be done for many kinds of scenarios. However, it is not necessary all of such plans will be feasible to carry out until or unless geopolitical scenario favors them.

That is a given man. We are discussing war gaming. And what would transpire were it to happen in real life.

The US did not need to attack the Saudis. They were and are already well entrenched there and control the spigots.

Do not underestimate the power of religious motivation - even in modern times. Collective response (or at minimum: state of readiness) will be of surprising proportions.

Do not underestimate the industrial and financial power of the West. And the collective firepower it can bring to bear on the battlefield.

Against that, religious motivation and unity, if at all, will simply translate into a significant mass of humanity united in its belief that they are dying for their religious faith.

But die they will.

When people will UNITE! All of these factors will not matter much. United Islamic front will be a force to be reckoned with.

United Islam will have neither the numbers nor financial and industrial base nor the firepower in an all out war. Not conventional. Most definitely not nuclear.

This is interesting point. Question is that which particular Islamic nation USA will decide to hit after Saudi Arabia? Maybe Pakistan? You can then expect Iran to directly support Pakistan in this hypothetical scenario. And China may also supply weapons to Pakistan. This front will definitely become more challenging.

In a war against Islam, the US/Christian world will hit Pakistan first. The Shock and Awe doctrine of the American war machine indoctrinated in psy ops over a century of war will combine taking out the religious masthead alongside taking out the figurative sword and standard bearer. Not that the "Islamic Bomb" can hurt them. But that taking it out will hurt many more and break their collective psyche. You destroy the enemy's biggest weapon, the fight goes out of the rest of them.

As for China, they are not a suicidal people. Not to mention that there is nothing China can supply pakistan that can protect Pakistan against the US, or when you come right down to it, protect China against the US should they draw their attention.

You all weather friend will stand aside. If not actively assist in de-fanging you when the time comes. As you yourself mentioned many times over - China is right there in the vicinity. It does not want to irradiate its own population because of someone else's stupidity.

In effect, when hostilities break out, and if someone has to die, and it would be foolish to imagine that someone to be the West, it would be in China's best interest that they not die alongside - even it means they need to roll up their sleeves and help you die quickly - and quietly.

Access to Middle East OIL will be certainly denied to the aggressor. It will be also used to gather some level of International Support against the aggressor. Interesting! Isn't it?

What is interesting is you having no clue about the logistics of oil and how easy it would be for a single US naval fleet to control it when hostilities break out. Thanks to the geography and the most formidable naval armada the world has ever seen. They can and will come in. But nothing will get out unless they allow it. Take a wild guess on whose side giant net energy consumers like China and India will be then.

Even if USA does not needs Middle East OIL, there are many other interested customers. These nations will be definitely concerned.

Concerned enough to put themselves militarily in between the US and the oil wells? Seriously?!

Look at the world map:

Now tell me genius! Is it really possible to perform conventional strikes on such a gigantic scale as you pointed out? And accomplish total breakthrough in a short span of time? Even if all seven US fleets are put to use, it may take a year to cripple so many nations with conventional means. And such an operation will be very expensive.

Einstein, the US will not be wasting time and money and blood of its own in a conventional expeitionary force in a D-day landings scenario, spread over continents. In the map you have shown, there are nerve centers. Those nerve centers will be attacked. By all means available. The rest do not matter. Are simply cannon fodder not going anywhere. And wil fold like dominoes in a heap with a push once the nerve centers are taken out.

War gaming Einstein. Read more. Think more. Dispassionately.

And you assume that Pakistan will not get ready for confrontation after strikes in Saudi Arabia? Pakistan may even give some nukes to Iran to boost its security.

I do not believe that Pakistan will have the luxury of time and warning. As I have described above.

And anyways, how do you "get ready for confrontation" when that is going to be coming down on you from 80 miles up and 12000 kilometers away? You can only wait. And pray.

By that time, Israel and India will be done with.

Don't be silly. You move towards assembly and you become radioactive glass. Behave rationally and you will simply be de-fanged for posterity.

Overseas muslims will come in to the picture. Countries such as UK and India are specially vulnerable due to sizable populace of muslims in these countries. And quarantine cannot be imposed by a single aggressor on such a grand scale unless the rest of the world cooperates.

This war, were it to come, would be against radical Islam. Neither India nor the US muslim populations are pockets of such. If anything, being Indian would be the protective identity of our muslims. I cannot speak of the US. We have seen what happens to their citizenry belonging to enemy ethnicity in the distant and recent past.

As hinted above, many non-Islamic states will not necessarily support the aggressor or cooperate with it in this kind of war.

They do not need to support or cooperate. They cannot/will not get in the way. And at most will stand to the side. That is good enough.

China and Russia may intervene if nuclear fallout effects them and pressurize USA to give up. In case of Pakistan, nuclear fallout will definitely effect China.

You say the words yet you do not see. This is exactly the reason Russia and China will be at the forefront of helping you die easily and quietly. For your own good and that of the rest of surrounding Asia.

Also remember that both Russia and China have buffer states and people who are children of a lesser God so to speak between you and your fallout and those of them that really count. They can and will live with that were it to come to that.

This may happen but nuclear fallout will effect both India and China and these states will be pissed.

Pissed is not the same of having the capability of doing something about it or actually doing something about it. Both countries also will not have the choice of wasteful luxuries like being pissed for long. They would and will do something about it instead. And that will not be standing between the US and you.

Is this joke of the century? You expect China and Russia to support USA in this kind of scenario?

Already answered above. Remember what I said earlier about there only being two veto votes that count when it comes to unilateral nuclear strikes? Well, if it comes to war against Islam, you just lost both.

On what basis? Or are you assuming a GLOBAL COALITION against the Islamic front?

Do not flatter yourself. Global is nowhere needed. The US is more than capable on its own. As are any of the other Christian/NATO nuclear powers when you get down to it.

Nuclear attack on India will scare off International Investors from this country and Indian economy will collapse. Result: more misery.

You move to assembly, you die. India will then not have the luxury of killing your cities selectively. Nor will the US or the other surounding nuclear powers. Please understand that you stand on very thin non-existant ice when you threaten unilateral pre-emptive (not retaliatory, not punitive) nuclear strikes. You become a nuclear rogue. You WILL be taken out. Quickly and without mercy. Far more quickly than you can manage to get your own nukes assembled and out of their silos.

This does not surprises me. However, China will definitely not support USA unless geopolitical scenario is vastly different from what we have witnessed in our times.

For the nth time, China does not have to. China cannot do much even if it wanted to. Without putting its own people into harm's way. Which they will not for you. Nobody will.

Stop day dreaming! Genius.

The war against Islamic front only becomes feasible if the rest of the world is willing to assist USA and tolerate the resulting fallout. You are presenting a fictional scenario.

Already discussed above. The US would be overkill were it to be a war on Islam.

Yes it is a fictional scenario for now. No I am not dreaming.

Unless USA is attacked by nukes from Islamic extremists! Which is also a pure fantasy - it will not find the motivation to attack and destroy the entire Islamic front and neither it will be able to gather international support for such an ambitious adventure.

Point is not about the capability of USA. Point is about existing 'ground realities' that will come in to play in these hypothetical scenarios.

The US has gone to war for less. Much less. On what some would say was the flimsiest of evidence. Evidence others would say was planted by those interested parties that benefited most from going to war. And staying at war.

Yes it may probably never happen. But looking at the way things are playing out in the world today, do you honestly believe that it possibly could not?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

And they have us believe that the Fascist Nazis lost in WW2? it seems that the Heinrich Himmler's spirit found a new host in some Americans
just replace the word Jews with Muslims and you see the same content, same reasoning and same single minded justification of genocide by the American policy makers like the henchmen of Hitler.

the report says that about 800 students have attended these fascist lectures to it seems that there might be 800 "isolated incidents" around the world wherever American troops and their black-ops are operating. come to think of using white phosphorus, killing civilians including children at point blank range, torture, humiliation and rape, desecration of corpses and Quran.

it seems that the philosophy has been put to use at a wholesale level.

 

[Audio]

And they have us believe that the Fascist Nazis lost in WW2? it seems that the Heinrich Himmler's spirit found a new host in some Americans
just replace the word Jews with Muslims and you see the same content, same reasoning and same single minded justification of genocide by the American policy makers like the henchmen of Hitler.

except the jews in the 30's didin't go crashing aeroplanes and doing suicide attacks on trains full of civilians....or tried to create some utopia of a pan-jewish state.

little differences easy to forget, no...

the report says that about 800 students have attended these fascist lectures to it seems that there might be 800 "isolated incidents" around the world

There are also students who vehemently oppose any involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, West Bank....etc...they think Israel continues a policy akin to the nazis and so forth...

wherever American troops and their black-ops are operating. come to think of using white phosphorus, killing civilians including children at point blank range, torture, humiliation and rape, desecration of corpses and Quran.

it seems that the philosophy has been put to use at a wholesale level.

So much sweeping generalizations and populism on a wholesale level....

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Don't be silly. You move towards assembly and you become radioactive glass. Behave rationally and you will simply be de-fanged for posterity.

dont be too smug. a good part of our eastern neighbourhood would already be made into a radioactive glass (as you put it) before we done for.

you have very cleverly narrowed down the discussion to Pakistan only. I admire your style , no surprise there when you have two Indian flags. Pakistan's destruction by America will be an Indian dream but that dream will be in a radiological wasteland of the whole subcontinent. we will take you down with us.

yea we cant hit the bully but we will break the nose and teeth of the smirking India.

except the jews in the 30's didin't go crashing aeroplanes and doing suicide attacks on trains full of civilians....or tried to create some utopia of a pan-jewish state.

little differences easy to forget, no.....

A stupid and pathetic justification.
do you like to present yourself as the 9/11 hijackers?

if you justify something on the same lines on the bigger magnitude then how are you any better than the Al Qaeda or Nazis?
please dont worry about responding.
your choice of avatar pretty much explains about yourself.

 

[vsdoc]

dont be too smug. a good part of our eastern neighbourhood would already be made into a radioactive glass (as you put it) before we done for.

you have very cleverly narrowed down the discussion to Pakistan only. I admire your style , no surprise there when you have two Indian flags. Pakistan's destruction by America will be an Indian dream but that dream will be in a radiological wasteland of the whole subcontinent. we will take you down with us.

yea we cant hit the bully but we will break the nose and teeth of the smirking India.

India is not the one going after you. Why would you target India with your nukes?

Just because you want to use them before you lose them?

Just because you want to wipe the "smirk" off our faces before you die?

Be reasonable man.

What happens if the US nukes you fom Arab soil?

Or makes it appear that its Iran that has launched?

How will you react? Will you nuke India?

What happens if the US nukes the UAE from close to the Iranian border with Iraq?

What happens if the US first nukes Iran from Pakistani soil? Or from Arab soil?

Or makes it appear as such?

How will they react?

 

[Audio]

A stupid and pathetic justification.
do you like to present yourself as the 9/11 hijackers?

if you justify something on the same lines on the bigger magnitude then how are you any better than the Al Qaeda or Nazis?
please dont worry about responding.
your choice of avatar pretty much explains about yourself.

Well im sorry, but you brought up the imaginary parallel of the Jews in the 30's and the supposed assault on Muslims today.

I simply clarified with an example of what is different in those 2 scenarios.

Point is...there were no extremist Jews back then. You cannot compare the two situations.
What Hitler did was action, what US is doing is reaction (less in Iraq's case)

What Muslims should be doing is weeding out the radical elements on their own like we do (with some slip-ups, granted).

please dont worry about responding.
your choice of avatar pretty much explains about yourself.

it is just debate, don't be obsessed with iconography....

 

[Developereo]

Then you should have no problems seeing that Dooley presented the 'worst case' scenario where militant Islam is no longer constraint by moderate Islam.

Translation: when moderate Muslims fail to control the militants, we will nuke Mecca.
Analogy: when moderate black Africans fail to control Somali piracy, we will nuke Kinshasa.
Analogy: when moderate latinos fail to control drug trafficking, we will nuke Sao Paolo.

There is no such 'course' because the purpose of the drug cartels and pirates are for personal pleasures -- PERSONAL -- not for purposes of state. At best, the use of the military in such a situation is to provide hardware support for law enforcement, local or national, if those agencies found themselves effectively outgunned, so to speak.

A distinction without difference: in the end, it's all about power. What matters is that, in all these cases, criminal gangs operate with impunity by taking advantage of weak governments' lawlessness.

But if the Mexican drug cartels or the pirates managed to wrest power from the governments and begins to behave with actions befitting governments, then we have evolved from dealing with petty criminals to dealing with new governments.

Exactly which government does AQ control? Any more so that the drug cartels? As mentioned above, AQ operate in lawless regions of various countries; exactly as drug dealers and pirates do. Drug cartels control large parts of Mexico and Colombia which are no-go zones for regular law enforcement and military. Many elements of these governments are believed to be working for the drug lords. Somali pirates wield similar power in Somalia.

By Dooley's (and your) analogy, this ongoing situation (several decades in the case of drugs) should justify drawing up scenarios to nuke major metropolitan areas in South America.

 

[Mav3rick]

And then we have some Muslims who come on her and try to say that our corrupt leaders are right to ally or work with Americans. That is probably also the reason they do not want Muslim countries to have nuclear weapons. they want to mow defenseless Muslims down.

Correct, however isn't destruction of Mecca one of the signs of end of times?

 

[Developereo]

I can't believe this nonsense discussion about 'vaporizing' Pakistan and the Muslim world is still continuing.

Please understand that nuclear weapons are not the only retaliation. If any country, Muslim or otherwise, is 'vaporized', they will doubtless have 'doomsday' contingency plans to unleash bio/chem weapons onto the attacker. These doomsday retaliations do not need ICBMs, they are not blocked by ABMs, and no country in the world, US included, has adequate defenses or is prepared to pay that price.

The only deterrence against them is the threat of nuclear retaliation but, one you have already exercised the nuclear option, the other side has no reason to hold back.

So, much to the dismay of the cheerleaders here, no one is going to be vaporizing the Muslim world.

 

[vsdoc]

I can't believe this nonsense discussion about 'vaporizing' Pakistan and the Muslim world is still continuing.

Please understand that nuclear weapons are not the only retaliation. If any country, Muslim or otherwise, is 'vaporized', they will doubtless have 'doomsday' contingency plans to unleash bio/chem weapons onto the attacker. These doomsday retaliations do not need ICBMs, they are not blocked by ABMs, and no country in the world, US included, has adequate defenses or is prepared to pay that price.

The only deterrence against them is the threat of nuclear retaliation but, one you have already exercised the nuclear option, the other side has no reason to hold back.

So, much to the dismay of the cheerleaders here, no one is going to be vaporizing the Muslim world.

Good point. Something that will in turn further vitiate the atmosphere against muslims living in these countries.

The CDC will no doubt be on high alert. As will all water teatment plants. Airports. Ports.

But please also remember that this will be no different (save for alert level) the the threat the US faces everyday from disgruntled elements from the nations it has waged war on over the past century.

The threat of a bio attack and the motive for waging bio war has always been there.

 

[Developereo]

Good point. Something that will in turn further vitiate the atmosphere against muslims living in these countries.

The CDC will no doubt be on high alert. As will all water teatment plants.

The whole scenario is 'end of times' when Mecca/Medina are nuked. For that option to be exercised in the first place, the atmosphere against Muslims would be thoroughly vitiated already.