Type 052D DDG News & Discussions

[cnleio]

052D DDG production on a fast track mode

They r DDG-175, DDG-176, DDG-177, DDG-178 of type052D prepare for launching ... "Made in China" so fast !!!

I heard China plan for 30+ type052C/D DDGs for 6x PLAN A.C groups ... type052D building continue for a long time.

 

[Penguin]

sounds that you know more about the PLA Navy warships cost than general of the PLA Navy.

Yin Zhuo (Rear Admiral and Director of the Advisory Committee for Informationization of PLA Navy): cost of 052D is about RMB 500,000 per ton.

link to the quote:
http://ft.people.com.cn/directList.do?fid=1414

and the screenshot.
View attachment 316186

052D is about 7000 ton in weight. So 7000 x 0.5 million =3,500 million, or 3.5 billion RMB.

Ship cost is determined by ship systems (i.e. armament and sensors) much more than by steel used.

Some expression of cost per ton can only be correct a) if it starts from total ship cost and then devides by tonnage for an 'fictitious' cost per ton (after all, it is not the price of the steel amnd building, but also weapons and sensors), or b) it is the real cost of steel and building i.e. the price of the ship without 'government furnished equipment' i.e. weapons and sensors'.

Admiral or no admiral, the above quite is ambigious in that it remains unclear how that $500k per ton was arrived at, what it actually represents.

I heard China plan for 30+ type052C/D DDGs for 6x PLAN A.C groups ... type052D building continue for a long time.

The inherent trouble with a big series of ships in a short time is that at some point (around 2040-2050, unless ships are used longer than 30 years, which would limit their usefulness/effectiveness ), PLAN again will face block-obsolescense.

056: over 20 commissioned between 2013 and 2016
054a: over 20 commissioned between 2008 and 2016 (not counting the pair of 054)
052C: 6 commissiones 2005-2015 (of which 4 in 2013-2015)
052D: 12 commissioned or commissioning between 2014 and 2019

[given the average current build rate of 3 per year, to get to 30 or more 052D, you take (30-12)/3= 6 more years of production i.e. production through 2025]

PLAN has been rapidly building 056's, 054a's and 052C/D's, so when it is time to start looking at replacement, it will again have to replace many vessels in a relatively short time span.

By comparison, the USN has been building ABs slowly but steadily and in different versions since 1989. Including phased modernizations of older vessels, these will also gradually be phased out and replaced in the future.

Source: https://warisboring.com/u-s-navy-packs-firepower-into-shrinking-sub-fleet-50c72bd38b83#.qc6ijqyth

 

[GS Zhou]

Ship cost is determined by ship systems (i.e. armament and sensors) much more than by steel used.

Some expression of cost per ton can only be correct a) if it starts from total ship cost and then devides by tonnage for an 'fictitious' cost per ton (after all, it is not the price of the steel amnd building, but also weapons and sensors), or b) it is the real cost of steel and building i.e. the price of the ship without 'government furnished equipment' i.e. weapons and sensors'.

Admiral or no admiral, the above quite is ambigious in that it remains unclear how that $500k per ton was arrived at, what it actually represents.

you think Yin Zhuo, the Rear Admiral of PLA Navy, Leader of PLA Navy Equipment Research Institute, even doesn't have the very basic sense that the price of steel is just a few thousand RMB per ton?

Go back to the quote I highlighted. Yin was asked by some military fans: why the PLAN 052D couldn't bring more air defense missiles? Yin then answered, his team has done multiple rounds of computer simulations, and the simulations show the 64-cell VLS of 052D is capable for a future combat. In addition, more missiles to carry means more expensive ship. Suppose 2000 ton heavier, as the current 052D cost is about RMB 500,000 per ton, so PLAN needs to pay 1 billion RMB more for the larger ship.

The inherent trouble with a big series of ships in a short time is that at some point (around 2040-2050, unless ships are used longer than 30 years, which would limit their usefulness/effectiveness ), PLAN again will face block-obsolescense.

056: over 20 commissioned between 2013 and 2016
054a: over 20 commissioned between 2008 and 2016 (not counting the pair of 054)
052C: 6 commissiones 2005-2015 (of which 4 in 2013-2015)
052D: 12 commissioned or commissioning between 2014 and 2019

[given the average current build rate of 3 per year, to get to 30 or more 052D, you take (30-12)/3= 6 more years of production i.e. production through 2025]

PLAN has been rapidly building 056's, 054a's and 052C/D's, so when it is time to start looking at replacement, it will again have to replace many vessels in a relatively short time span.

Each generation has each generation's duty to accomplish. At least in our generation, we've done our duty to our country. And the next generations, our sons or grandsons, I believe they could do a better job than us.

 

[cirr]

At least 16(JNX12, DLX4) 052Ds commissioned, handed-over or under build

 

[Penguin]

you think Yin Zhuo, the Rear Admiral of PLA Navy, Leader of PLA Navy Equipment Research Institute, even doesn't have the very basic sense that the price of steel is just a few thousand RMB per ton?

I'm not assuming anything about anyone.
I do know that even rear-admirals may have reason to speak either truth or to misinform.
Either way, it remains unclear where the price per ton comes from.
All I can tell you, that price per ton is not typically the way to express ship cost in a professional setting, where more common terms would lifetime cost, program cost, building cost, operating cost. Those typically are full figures.

Go back to the quote I highlighted. Yin was asked by some military fans: why the PLAN 052D couldn't bring more air defense missiles? Yin then answered, his team has done multiple rounds of computer simulations, and the simulations show the 64-cell VLS of 052D is capable for a future combat. In addition, more missiles to carry means more expensive ship. Suppose 2000 ton heavier, as the current 052D cost is about RMB 500,000 per ton, so PLAN needs to pay 1 billion RMB more for the larger ship.

I more than happily go back to the highlighted area. However, I'm not Chinese and can't read the characters ;-)
One can increase the number of air defence missiles by developing and loading multipacks (duo, quad etc) in to the existing cells. Hence, it is not automatic that packing more missiles means additional tonnage. More missiles does mean greater ordnance cost per ship load-out. However, I don't see how a relatively minor stretch of the design (splicing in a hull segment that can hold e.g. 2x8 cells) would lead to huge extra costs or 2000 tons additional displacement (if that ship is 7000-8000 tons fld than +2000 tons is +25% to 29%).

Each generation has each generation's duty to accomplish. At least in our generation, we've done our duty to our country. And the next generations, our sons or grandsons, I believe they could do a better job than us.

Oh, I was more thinking in terms of available funding ;-)

 

[cnleio]

DaLian shipyard building 3x new type052D DDGs

 

[Penguin]

Makes sense

Number 8 Guiyang (119): Fitting out
Number 10 [unnamed] (120): Under Construction
Number 12 [unnamed] (157): Under Construction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_052D_destroyer#Ships_of_Class

Its seems to take about 2 - 2.5 years from launch to commissioning on average

 

[Akasa]

DaLian shipyard building 3x new type052D DDGs

View attachment 316597

We could expect a decline in 052D production at Dalian as the shipyard refurbishes to accommodate for 055s.

 

[cnleio]

Makes sense

Number 8 Guiyang (119): Fitting out
Number 10 [unnamed] (120): Under Construction
Number 12 [unnamed] (157): Under Construction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_052D_destroyer#Ships_of_Class

Its seems to take about 2 - 2.5 years from launch to commissioning on average

6x type052C and 12x type052D DDGs, 25x type054A FFGs for PLAN ... building not end new DDGs will coming.

 

[星海军事]

PLANS Yinchuan (DDG-175) begins to serve today.

 

[Beast]

PLANS Yinchuan (DDG-175) begins to serve today.

PLAN needs to commission these Type052D faster.

 

[cnleio]

PLANS Yinchuan (DDG-175) begins to serve today.

PLAN needs to commission these Type052D faster.

The PLAN South Sea Fleet already has 2x type052C and 4x type052D DDGs and many type054A FFGs, such speed is fast !

 

[nang2]

Ship cost is determined by ship systems (i.e. armament and sensors) much more than by steel used.

Some expression of cost per ton can only be correct a) if it starts from total ship cost and then devides by tonnage for an 'fictitious' cost per ton (after all, it is not the price of the steel amnd building, but also weapons and sensors), or b) it is the real cost of steel and building i.e. the price of the ship without 'government furnished equipment' i.e. weapons and sensors'.

Admiral or no admiral, the above quite is ambigious in that it remains unclear how that $500k per ton was arrived at, what it actually represents.


The inherent trouble with a big series of ships in a short time is that at some point (around 2040-2050, unless ships are used longer than 30 years, which would limit their usefulness/effectiveness ), PLAN again will face block-obsolescense.

056: over 20 commissioned between 2013 and 2016
054a: over 20 commissioned between 2008 and 2016 (not counting the pair of 054)
052C: 6 commissiones 2005-2015 (of which 4 in 2013-2015)
052D: 12 commissioned or commissioning between 2014 and 2019

[given the average current build rate of 3 per year, to get to 30 or more 052D, you take (30-12)/3= 6 more years of production i.e. production through 2025]

PLAN has been rapidly building 056's, 054a's and 052C/D's, so when it is time to start looking at replacement, it will again have to replace many vessels in a relatively short time span.

By comparison, the USN has been building ABs slowly but steadily and in different versions since 1989. Including phased modernizations of older vessels, these will also gradually be phased out and replaced in the future.

Source: https://warisboring.com/u-s-navy-packs-firepower-into-shrinking-sub-fleet-50c72bd38b83#.qc6ijqyth

China navy will be growing. By the time this block is obsolete, it will be a small block proportionally.

 

[lcloo]

I believe the current rate of naval ship building is just about right. Building ships to replace current numbers in service is no longer suits the geopolitical situations in seas around China.

And extra numbers of ships are required as escorts of China's future airraft carrier groups, at least 3 of which is expected and this is excluding Liaoning which wil continue to be deployed as training and experimental ship.

The hostile gangs from east ocean and west ocean will increase in force, instigated by the desire to forestall China's military and economic progress and the fear of China's rise as a world leader.

Even if China builds 60 modern destroyers and frigates, she still lacks in number against sum of 60% of US Navy pivoted to West Pacific + Japan + Taiwan and South Korea. And with the increasing warm India - US military relations, ships from India might increase their presence in South and East China seas. Then we have the Asutralians and Vietnam.

So, I think China should increase her naval ships at least to match the sum of expected naval forces from above countries deploy to China's door steps in future.

 

[cnleio]

I believe the current rate of naval ship building is just about right. Building ships to replace current numbers in service is no longer suits the geopolitical situations in seas around China.

And extra numbers of ships are required as escorts of China's future airraft carrier groups, at least 3 of which is expected and this is excluding Liaoning which wil continue to be deployed as training and experimental ship.

The hostile gangs from east ocean and west ocean will increase in force, instigated by the desire to forestall China's military and economic progress and the fear of China's rise as a world leader.

Even if China builds 60 modern destroyers and frigates, she still lacks in number against sum of 60% of US Navy pivoted to West Pacific + Japan + Taiwan and South Korea. And with the increasing warm India - US military relations, ships from India might increase their presence in South and East China seas. Then we have the Asutralians and Vietnam.

So, I think China should increase her naval ships at least to match the sum of expected naval forces from above countries deploy to China's door steps in future.

Building numbers strongly depend on China economy development, if everything going fine the military expenditure is not a problem.