Two Pakistani boys repatriated to *** by Indian Army

[Jade]

Keep this face for when Kashmir is liberated.

Are you talking of Pakistan occupied Kashmir?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

me to wish the same but alas .

Yeah. Alas the CPRF cowards can only gun down unarmed civilians based on their political ideology and aspirations

 

[Cherokee]

Yeah. Alas the CPRF cowards can only gun down unarmed civilians based on their political ideology and aspirations

yeah Alas ISI and PA behind Killings of unarmed civilians in Balochistan due to which balochis are protesting in Geneva and U.S. , all based on their political ideology and aspirations

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

yeah Alas ISI and PA behind Killings of unarmed civilians in Balochistan due to which balochis are protesting in Geneva and U.S. , all based on their political ideology and aspirations

No that would be the act of your proxies though I admit army -when it actually was in charge of certain security affairs in the province which it is no longer - made mistakes as well and I/many acknowledge that. However the insurgency, as low level as is - must be dealt with through a reformed Provincial police force and the FC if necessary. Now that's wishful
thinking of course but I do reiterate that there are no Army ops in Balochistan

And may I mention something we already know very well. The terrorist likes of Bramdagh Bugti have full support of Kabul and India. And where is Mr. Bugti when Baloch target kill people including fellow Baloch, Punjabis, Pakhtuns, Sindhis who work in the education, health, and development sector (or are just innocent labourers) in Balochistan? Is that also not violation of human rights and illegal?


No of course you bharatis conveniently overlook that and have no idea about the conflict there because the region in general and the politics is too complex for your pea sized brains to grasp. Of course you do have some bright minds in Delhi who think they can divide Pakistan through nefarious games. That's your own problem (and there will be other problems arising as a direct result)

On Kashmir again - it's really not so complicated. You occupy people's land and those people don't want you there. It's a disputed territory and within Kashmir majority are against india but a section of Kashmiris are divided between either joining Pakistan or gaining total independence. Let them decide. The decision isn't yours and as long as you try to suppress them, they'll continue to resist and such resistance is perfectly justified and even mandated in the UN Charter (the UN which you held in abeyance, agains the wishes of your Pundit Nehru)

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

P.S. armed forces special power act implemented in indian occupied Kashmir has no equivalent in Balochistan

Media is there. International correspondents don't venture out as much due to the risk of kidnapping which exists in certain parts.

We know how free the press is in occupied Kashmir! We know about foreign correspondents in Sri Nagar being harassed. We know about some seperatist elements in Balochistan and they aren't currently under house arrest or being hung to dry on concocted charges like Afzal Guru.

 

[janon]

P.S. armed forces special power act implemented in indian occupied Kashmir has no equivalent in Balochistan Media is there. International correspondents don't venture out as much due to the risk of kidnapping which exists in certain parts.

We know how free the press is in occupied Kashmir! We know about foreign correspondents in Sri Nagar being harassed. We know about some seperatist elements in Balochistan and they aren't currently under house arrest or being hung to dry on concocted charges like Afzal Guru.

Who needs AFSPA, when they have the power to use artillery and F-16s against enemies? Indian forces mostly use Ak-47s, and in some very rare cases an RPG, but nothing heavier. In your conflict, you are waging a full blown war, and then saying saintly that you don't have an AFSPA.

You have special powers to do a helluva lot more than Indian army has ever had in its own territory. There is really no comparison there. The debate in India is about giving people in disturbed areas more civil liberties than 50% of the landmass of Pakistan enjoys. Of course the rest of India enjoys these liberties, so the people in these areas are fully within their right to remove AFSPA. But they would much rather live under AFSPA than in a lawless warzone where the only entertainment is to listen to fighter jets bombing their lands.

Most of your insurgency ridden areas are warzones, lawless places with no protection from the Pakistani state. That is not what it is in India, where other than this AFSPA, they enjoy all the rights and liberties enjoyed by any Indian citizen.

Note: I don't support AFSPA, at least not in the current form, and not on all its provisions. But to pretend that the lack of AFSPA in a lawless tribal region that has no legal protection whatsoever is somehow a better choice, is an insult to the intelligence.

 

[SamantK]

No that would be the act of your proxies though I admit army -when it actually was in charge of certain security affairs in the province which it is no longer - made mistakes as well and I/many acknowledge that. However the insurgency, as low level as is - must be dealt with through a reformed Provincial police force and the FC if necessary. Now that's wishful
thinking of course but I do reiterate that there are no Army ops in Balochistan

And may I mention something we already know very well. The terrorist likes of Bramdagh Bugti have full support of Kabul and India. And where is Mr. Bugti when Baloch target kill people including fellow Baloch, Punjabis, Pakhtuns, Sindhis who work in the education, health, and development sector (or are just innocent labourers) in Balochistan? Is that also not violation of human rights and illegal?


No of course you bharatis conveniently overlook that and have no idea about the conflict there because the region in general and the politics is too complex for your pea sized brains to grasp. Of course you do have some bright minds in Delhi who think they can divide Pakistan through nefarious games. That's your own problem (and there will be other problems arising as a direct result)

On Kashmir again - it's really not so complicated. You occupy people's land and those people don't want you there. It's a disputed territory and within Kashmir majority are against india but a section of Kashmiris are divided between either joining Pakistan or gaining total independence. Let them decide. The decision isn't yours and as long as you try to suppress them, they'll continue to resist and such resistance is perfectly justified and even mandated in the UN Charter (the UN which you held in abeyance, agains the wishes of your Pundit Nehru)

P.S. armed forces special power act implemented in indian occupied Kashmir has no equivalent in Balochistan

Media is there. International correspondents don't venture out as much due to the risk of kidnapping which exists in certain parts.

We know how free the press is in occupied Kashmir! We know about foreign correspondents in Sri Nagar being harassed. We know about some seperatist elements in Balochistan and they aren't currently under house arrest or being hung to dry on concocted charges like Afzal Guru.

FC is no army but then what they are doing in Balochistan is virtually unknow, without the basic freedom the journalists enjoy the true picture can never come out.

The support for Terrorists from across our borders is also well known, we never passed of a whole regiment as tribals or what not. We might support them financially, this we undersand but without an iota of evidence produced yet by Pakistan, sadly this kind of proxy war was taught to us by Pakistan itself.

On Kashmir it was very simple indeed, not now but when India took Pakistan to UN. The pebliscite should have been accepted by Pakistan which kept refusing on flimsy reasons to further the advantage over a terrority they contest only for a reason that they are a Muslim majority state.

Yes, there is no law such as AFSPA but then comparing our laws and your laws can lead to many laws which we do not share. Our laws atleast are enforced to a certain degree whereas yours are laughed off and misused by anyone with decent connections or a religious affliation.

Afzal Guru was no inoccent, his charges were not concocted, there is a video inteview of his which proves beyond doubt that he was involved in the attack for all the purpose of this forum, go read the full text of his sentence if you want to debate further. Our judiciary is far better than yours and yes it matters and even the GoI runs **** scared when SC comes down on them.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Since you know more about operations undertaken by the services please brief me on when the last time artillery and armed aircrafts were employed on any hostiles positions in Balochistan

 

[Windjammer]

FC is no army but then what they are doing in Balochistan is virtually unknow, without the basic freedom the journalists enjoy the true picture can never come out.

The support for Terrorists from across our borders is also well known, we never passed of a whole regiment as tribals or what not. We might support them financially, this we undersand but without an iota of evidence produced yet by Pakistan, sadly this kind of proxy war was taught to us by Pakistan itself.



On Kashmir it was very simple indeed, not now but when India took Pakistan to UN. The pebliscite should have been accepted by Pakistan which kept refusing on flimsy reasons to further the advantage over a terrority they contest only for a reason that they are a Muslim majority state.

Yes, there is no law such as AFSPA but then comparing our laws and your laws can lead to many laws which we do not share. Our laws atleast are enforced to a certain degree whereas yours are laughed off and misused by anyone with decent connections or a religious affliation.

Afzal Guru was no inoccent, his charges were not concocted, there is a video inteview of his which proves beyond doubt that he was involved in the attack for all the purpose of this forum, go read the full text of his sentence if you want to debate further. Our judiciary is far better than yours and yes it matters and even the GoI runs **** scared when SC comes down on them.

Speak volumes of Indian laws and justice system.....you guys surely know how to point fingers....a certain article did ask if there is a ban on reporting negative news from India. ???...... coming back to the topic...scratch the surface and it doesn't seem all honky dory as portrayed or one is lead to believe. !!

Death penalty mostly awarded to dalits and religious minorities

 

[janon]

Since you know more about operations undertaken by the services please brief me on when the last time artillery and armed aircrafts were employed on any hostiles positions in Balochistan

I don't know when the "last time" was. But I do know that air strikes are employed by Pakistan in both balochistan and FATA.

Since you asked about Balochistan:

The Destabilization of Pakistan | Global Research

The US is providing American F-16 jets to the Pakistani military, which are being used to bomb Baloch villages in Balochistan.

The Samosa » Archive » Balochistan: Time for a ceasefire and political settlement

Baloch campaigners are urging the International Criminal Court to issue arrest warrants and put on trial key Pakistani political, intelligence and military leaders, including the former dictator president, Pervez Musharraf, who allegedly authorised indiscriminate air strikes against defenceless Baloch villages.

Pakistanâ

Promises of military de-escalation are contradicted by continued army incursions and air strikes, which have resulted in many civilian casualties.

Despite Gilani’s assurances, military attacks have continued. The attacks have been aided and abetted by military supplies from the UK, such as small arms, artillery, helicopter components and military communications equipment. The US has sold the Pakistani military $10 billion in arms, including F-16 attack aircraft, and Bell and Cobra attack helicopters. These have been used to indiscriminately strafe and bomb Balochistan, killing civilians and also livestock, with the aim of intimidating the population and starving them into submission.

Note that I have avoided sources from Baloch separatist organisations. Also note that these are only related to Balochistan, and that indiscriminate airstrikes have been employed far more often in FATA. Also note that there are plenty more reports if you google. Didn't Bugti die in an airstrike?

So you see, trying to take the moral high ground saying that "we don't have AFSPA in balochistan" is ludicrous. The debate over AFSPA can only happen in places that have the rule of law, not in warzones.

 

[SamantK]

Speak volumes of Indian laws and justice system.....you guys surely know how to point fingers....a certain article did ask if there is a ban on reporting negative news from India. ???...... coming back to the topic...scratch the surface and it doesn't seem all honky dory as portrayed or one is lead to believe. !!

Death penalty mostly awarded to dalits and religious minorities

In your own words 'A certain article asks' , I'm not reading the article cause the source is not trustworthy and it is only asking. Even a ToI article would do better if such is a question being asked. If you really want to find out im sure you can find a better source, till then its just a rant.

However, even if that were to be true, I'm yet to understand how and why is that statistic a reflection of the perceived (bias?)functioning of our Judiciary.

 

[dabong1]

They terrorise shias , blow up sufi shrines and drove off the native Kashmiri Pandits.

I see theres no mention of the million+ kashmris driven from there homes by the indian army or the number of raped and killed by the indain army.

Not to mention the whole violence was started by Pak army when they sent tribal thugs in 1948 to capture the peaceful valley.

As normal the indian version of events fed the public are half truths and outright lies.....You love to mention the tribesman but fail to mention there was no invasion of kashmir by pak forces(kashmris-tribesman-army)until the indians sent there army first and then pakistan reacted.
Maybe a timeline of events not sponsored by the indians would give a better picture.


THE MASS KILLINGS CARRIED OUT BY DOGRA FORCES BEFORE ANY INVASION TOOK PLACE

1.Ian Stephens, editor of The Statesman (Calcutta) noted in his book ‘Pakistan’ that “unlike every part of the State, Hindu and Sikhs slightly out-numbered Muslims and within a period of about 11 weeks, starting in August, systematic savageries ——— practically eliminated the entire Muslim element in the population, amounting to 5,00,000 people. About 2, 00,000 just disappeared, remaining untraceable, having presumably been butchered.”

London Times gave news that “in one area 2, 37,000 Muslims were wiped out in a well conceived manner except those people who escaped to Pakistan along the border. This massacre of Muslims was done by Dogra forces of the State and Hari Singh was himself guiding (the operation).”

Professor Harry Alastair Lamb in his book “Kashmir: A Disputed Legacy’, “These atrocities had been perpetrated not only by uncontrolled bands of hooligans but also by organized units of the Hari Singh army of police”.

WHAT WAS THE INDIAN ARMY DOING IN KASHMIR BEFORE ANY INVASION

2.the Dogra regime intended to accede to India and New Delhi had annexationist design over the state. Besides the presence of Patiala State infantrymen stationed at Jammu and Patiala gunners positioned at Srinagar Airfield on 17th of October 1947 could not have gone unnoticed

3.You totally fail to mention that the the fight against dogra rule was started by the poonch-mirpuris and only after the indian army Patiala State infantrymen arriving in kashmir did it trigger the kashmrirs to ask for help from paksitan
If the dogra ruler can ask india to help him likewise the kashmiris can ask pakistan for help.

 

[SamantK]

I see theres no mention of the million+ kashmris driven from there homes by the indian army or the number of raped and killed by the indain army.



As normal the indian version of events fed the public are half truths and outright lies.....You love to mention the tribesman but fail to mention there was no invasion of kashmir by pak forces(kashmris-tribesman-army)until the indians sent there army first and then pakistan reacted.
Maybe a timeline of events not sponsored by the indians would give a better picture.


THE MASS KILLINGS CARRIED OUT BY DOGRA FORCES BEFORE ANY INVASION TOOK PLACE

1.Ian Stephens, editor of The Statesman (Calcutta) noted in his book ‘Pakistan’ that “unlike every part of the State, Hindu and Sikhs slightly out-numbered Muslims and within a period of about 11 weeks, starting in August, systematic savageries ——— practically eliminated the entire Muslim element in the population, amounting to 5,00,000 people. About 2, 00,000 just disappeared, remaining untraceable, having presumably been butchered.”

London Times gave news that “in one area 2, 37,000 Muslims were wiped out in a well conceived manner except those people who escaped to Pakistan along the border. This massacre of Muslims was done by Dogra forces of the State and Hari Singh was himself guiding (the operation).”

Professor Harry Alastair Lamb in his book “Kashmir: A Disputed Legacy’, “These atrocities had been perpetrated not only by uncontrolled bands of hooligans but also by organized units of the Hari Singh army of police”.

WHAT WAS THE INDIAN ARMY DOING IN KASHMIR BEFORE ANY INVASION

2.the Dogra regime intended to accede to India and New Delhi had annexationist design over the state. Besides the presence of Patiala State infantrymen stationed at Jammu and Patiala gunners positioned at Srinagar Airfield on 17th of October 1947 could not have gone unnoticed

3.You totally fail to mention that the the fight against dogra rule was started by the poonch-mirpuris and only after the indian army Patiala State infantrymen arriving in kashmir did it trigger the kashmrirs to ask for help from paksitan
If the dogra ruler can ask india to help him likewise the kashmiris can ask pakistan for help.

Laughbale to say the least.

The program against Muslism was going on in Jammu, the tribals invaded the Kashmir Valley. Calling this fact a reaction is the most humorous thing I have heard.

The tribals even if grossly misplaced were in reponse to the jammur massacare, then why did they started the pillaging and looting even raping the local population seems contrary to the help narative.

 

[janon]

I see theres no mention of the million+ kashmris driven from there homes by the indian army or the number of raped and killed by the indain army.

Because no such thing happened. Google "Kashmir genocide" and find out what results it throws up, you would be surprised. Yes, an entire community was driven away from Kashmir, from the land their ancestors lived in for centuries, if not millennia. I am talking about Kashmiri pundits who were driven away en masse by Islamic terrorists and insurgents in the 80s, for whom India has done nothing to help. That is the only mass exodus that has happened in Kashmir.

 

[Windjammer]

In your own words 'A certain article asks' , I'm not reading the article cause the source is not trustworthy and it is only asking. Even a ToI article would do better if such is a question being asked. If you really want to find out im sure you can find a better source, till then its just a rant.

However, even if that were to be true, I'm yet to understand how and why is that statistic a reflection of the perceived (bias?)functioning of our Judiciary.

I said a CERTAIN article and not the one posted...."ban on negative news from India" actually appeared in a reputable English daily.....The Independent.... a far cry from anything the Indian media can ever muster..... and if your former president did touch the issue at some point then the source of the article should be the last of your concern and if the claim lacks substance, why would the biased judgements make news...!!