Two Opposing Terms: Islamic and Republic

[M. Sarmad]

PS: Also being democratic is a term also used in everyday conversation too. E.G, A teacher asks the class room to VOTE for the person, who they want to become the prefect of the classroom. It is called being Democratic. How is this practice against Islam in anyway?

brother I had no intention to reply to you but I could not resist after reading this ....
I knew you were quite young , but did not know that you were a school going kid

And You are challenging the UN interpretation of democracy ....

@Talon
I seriously expected better from you ...
Its not about using 2 words together , its about mixing two different (contradicting) ideologies

 

[Dubious]

@Talon
I seriously expected better from you ...
Its not about using 2 words together , its about mixing two different (contradicting) ideologies

They dont seem contradicting ...esp when they can go side by side

 

[RangerPK]

brother I had no intention to reply to you but I could not resist after reading this ....
I knew you were quite young , but did not know that you were a school going kid

I am not a school going kid. You understood wrong. You are wrong.

 

[M. Sarmad]

They dont seem contradicting ...esp when they can go side by side

And from your reply its clear that you did not learn anything from 13 pages of discussion , they might not "seem" contradicting to you but they are surely contradicting ... or may be the greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance but ego ....
PEACE

 

[Dubious]

And from your reply its clear that you did not learn anything from 13 pages of discussion , they might not "seem" contradicting to you but they are surely contradicting ... or may be the greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance but ego ....
PEACE

You might talk on your behalf but I aint the only one who dont see them that way...And if they surely are then you should be able to proof your point...so far your points have been refutable! And you have not answered my questions...

based on physical, physiology, mental, emotional, and other things women are DIFFERENT than men then why do you want EVERYTHING the same?

In Islam the rights are given based on everything...based on these differences...Naa ziada naa qum...poora poora...

 

[M. Sarmad]

based on physical, physiology, mental, emotional, and other things women are DIFFERENT than men then why do you want EVERYTHING the same?
In Islam the rights are given based on everything...based on these differences...Naa ziada naa qum...poora poora...

Show me a single post where I said that .....
I have no problem with Islamic laws
I have problem with pseudo-Islam a.k.a Islamic Republic

so far your points have been refutable!

And yet no one was able to refute !! None of the supporters of "Islamic Republic" could answer the simplest questions in a simple way that I asked in post# 186 & 218 !!!

 

[RangerPK]

They dont seem contradicting ...esp when they can go side by side

Democracy as defined by Abraham Lincoln is rule of the people, by the people, for the people.


UN is a foreign body.

That a country can choose to recognize or not recognize.

How in the hell, a Foreign body such as UN, became an ESSENTIAL part of democracy? Let me tell you. It is NOT.

UN is Not an essential part of democracy. It is something indifferent to it.

Democracy means, people can select their own leader of choose, through representatives. This practice is not against Islam.

In democracy, people can make their own laws, through representative.

Human Rights is a subjective term. This means. If someone finds something to be "good" another can find it to be "bad". Thus the perception of what is "good" and "bad" changes from person to person, peoples to peoples.

If the democratic country wants to pass a law of "human rights" It shall do so, according to its own interpretation of what "human rights" are. NOT, according to what the UN thinks or not, or what any other organization out there in the world thinks.

Get it?

There are dozens of definitions of what "Human Rights" are, and one of the definition of Human Rights, out of many is of Islam.

So if the democratic country wants, it can adopt the Islamic Definition of "Human Rights". The same country can also adopt the definition of "Human Rights" of the UN if it chooses so, or even the definition of "humans rights" of the KKK, for that matter.

Thus, neither, UN, Islam or KKK are ESSENTIAL for a democracy. In this scenario. UN definition of Human Rights is as relevant or irrelevant as Islam's definition of human rights.

To claim, UN definition of human rights is "essential" to democracy, but some how Islams definition of "human Rights" is "against" democracy. Is quite a stupid argument that does not even make ANY sense at all.

Thus I believe people who are arguing this have no idea what they are talking about, and are trolling hardcore.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Thus I believe people who are arguing this have no idea what they are talking aboutand are trolling hardcore.

Bhai g you are the one trolling hardcore ; by bringing in discussion on gay rights in your previous posts

So ja meray bhai sakoon se , baqi ki trolling kal ker laina school se wapisi pe

 

[RangerPK]

Bhai g you are the one trolling hardcore ; by bringing in discussion on gay rights in your previous posts

So ja meray bhai sakoon se , baqi ki trolling kal ker laina school se wapisi pe

Seems like you choose to ignore my point, and made a troll post.

....

 

[M. Sarmad]

Seems like you choose to ignore my point, and made a troll post.

brother show me where I (or anyone else)said that democracy , secularism and UN are "essential" part of each other !!! That is really a stupid thing to say .... You are talking to yourself only .

 

[RangerPK]

So , by the UN standards , the Islamic law violates basic human rights , hence incompatible with democracy ;

brother show me where I (or anyone else)said that democracy , secularism and UN are "essential" part of one another !!! That is really a stupid thing to say .... You are talking to yourself only .

So we agree, on your latter post.

 

[Dubious]

Show me a single post where I said that .....

You brought in UN and about EQUAL RIGHTS....and have not been able to answer my questions about why do you feel there is DIVINE INEQUALITY as you wrote some posts ago....

I have no problem with Islamic laws
I have problem with pseudo-Islam a.k.a Islamic Republic

Why do you have problem mixing 2 good things?

And yet no one was able to refute !! None of the supporters of Islamic Republic could answer the simplest questions in a simple way that I asked in post# 186 !!!

We posted our POV and you posted your POV...no one needs to force another...I answered about slavery...based on the meaning of the word...but you did not read...

As for Muslims and Non Muslims I told you Non Muslims get less punishment as compared to Muslims because Muslims should know better and other things...
Non Muslims also pay less taxes than a Muslim...and also have other benefits...You brought forward what WILL HAPPEN TO THEM based on ALLAH's judgement which HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US because we are not GOD nor do we take part in that...ALLAH just tells us what will be our fate if we do this or that...rest is our choice...

As for the men and women I have talked about it....based on PHYSICAL, PHYSIOLOGY, MENTAL, EMOTIONAL needs rights have been assigned ....If you think by saying ALL PEOPLE ARE EQUAL then why avoid THESE ayat (I have put them forward before):

O mankind, verily We have created you from a single (Pair) of a male and a female, and have made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other. Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is the most righteous (49:13).

Nope it does not say the most HONORED IS THE MEN OVER THE WOMEN or the WHITE OR ARAB over the OTHERS....

The believers, men and women, are helpers, supporters, friends and protectors of one another; they enjoin (on the people) Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do; and they forbid (people) from all forms of evil (i.e. polytheism and disbelief of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); they offer their prayers perfectly, and give their charity and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will shower His Mercy upon them. Surely Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise (Quran 9:71)

“Verily, We created humans (insanaa) in the best stature (taqwim) (mould)” (Quran: 95: 4)

No distinguishing men from women....

And many such verses were ignored, may I ask why?




Please read the SHARIAH LAW not what people say....

 

[M. Sarmad]

So we agree.

So you admit that Islam and democracy are incompatible !!
good

 

[RangerPK]

You brought in UN and about EQUAL RIGHTS....and have not been able to answer my questions about why do you feel there is DIVINE INEQUALITY as you wrote some posts ago....
Why do you have problem mixing 2 good things?

This is what he said earlier

So , by the UN standards , the Islamic law violates basic human rights , hence incompatible with democracy ;

So you admit that Islam and democracy are incompatible !!
good

Again, another post by you that does NOT make any sense at all.

So , by the UN standards , the Islamic law violates basic human rights , hence incompatible with democracy ;

If you are basing your argument, on how Islam contradicts Democracy is because.

Islamic Concept of Human Rights is against the UN concept of Human Rights.

Then you are implying.

1: The concept of Human Rights is essential to democracy

2 ONLY the UN concept of human rights is essential to democracy.

3 UN is essential to democracy.

This does not make any sense. Your argument is baseless.

PS: this thread is about Islam and Republic. You brought UN in to it...

 

[Secur]

If you believe that your definitions and understanding is better than the understanding of intellectuals of the whole world combined (i.e UN) , then I rest my case

The comparison , you made . Do you think that it has got more to do with cultural norms/school of thought/historical reasons rather than with the true interpretation of religion ? Would you phrase it that the Muslims started going more literal and hence all the problems and the root cause of their downfall ?