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Two events in history which put flourishing Islamic world into reverse gear

The same "ruling Arabic tribal elites" (whatever that is exactly) ruled back then. In fact throughout the entire Islamic Golden Age. Also to say that the Muslim world is regressing, despite the numbers showing something else, is at best ignorant if not moronic.

As bad as the Muslim world is on some fronts today the situation is vastly better than 100 years ago let alone 200 or 300 years ago.

I challenge you to mention 1 single aspect that has not improved.

Completely different to the current regimes, Plus it was the Ottomans that really made an impact.. As i mentioned nothing significant will happen as long as those Arabs in the Gulf keeps a stranglehold of the Muslim world by proxy because of financial power, Nothing is infinite, Let the oil run out and eventually their influence will fade

No need to challenge, As the article mentions Muslims are regressing at breakneck speed back to the 4th century Arabia (With a very few exceptions mainly in South East Asia).. It's pretty obvious to anyone who's genuinely want to view it rationally
 
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Completely different to the current regimes, As i mentioned nothing significant will happen as long as those Arabs in the Gulf keeps a stranglehold of the Muslim world by proxy because of financial power, Nothing is infinite, Let the oil run out and eventually their influence will fade

No need to challenge, As the article mentions Muslims are regressing at breakneck speed back to the 4th century Arabia (With a very few exceptions mainly in South East Asia).. It's pretty obvious to anyone who's genuinely want to view it rationally

Different regime but same people and region. The same region and people whose ancestors created the first civilizations on the planet.

You give the GCC far too much credit. I did not know that the GCC had such a tremendous power to control the discourse in the 1.6 billion big Muslim world. Quite an achievement.

When back then, in your own words, the Muslim world was a major civilization (if not the greatest) there was no oil, so what exactly has oil to do with anything?

Was it the oils fault that the Mongols ransacked Baghdad in 1258 and much of the MENA region/Muslim world and effectively ended the Islamic Golden Age? Or that certain Islamic figures and their views gained the upper hand over the views of other competing clerics?

Your views are that of the typical simplistic person. Shallow. Useless as well.

Once again to say that the Muslim world is regressing, despite the numbers showing something else, is at best ignorant if not moronic.

As bad as the Muslim world is on some fronts today the situation is vastly better than say 50 or 100 years ago let alone 200 or 300 years ago for the common man and woman on average in the Muslim world. This is indisputable.

Once again I challenge you to mention 1 single aspect that has not improved overall be it life expectancy, health, education, infrastructure, wealth, literacy rates and you name it. You failed at that.

It's like saying that China was better off 100 years ago. Your claim of the Muslim world being in stagnation is nothing else than ignorant falsehood that the real numbers do not confirm but rather quite clearly disprove on almost every front.

Anyway you quite clearly have no idea what you are talking about so I am wasting my time here.

Let's have the same discussion in 1-2 decades (not going to happen but anyway) and see whether there have been no improvement in the Muslim world as has been the case between 1996-2016.

And he's gone, LOL.

I can only see the GCC and Pak/Afghan ever becoming a super state, under your conditions. The rest of the Muslim world would probably revolt, as they're more nationalist, rather than pan-Islamic.

Pan-Islamism is dying in the GCC and is slowly being replaced by nationalism. Especially after witnessing what pseudo pan-Islamism has given our region since a certain neighbor had a revolution in 1979 and after realizing how useless most current Muslim regimes are and how they use religion for their own gains. Leeching and more leeching. Inter-Islamic solidarity will never die between Muslims as long as we are alive but regime changes are necessary for such a policy to truly benefit most Muslims (read the masses) IMO. And here I am not talking about donations but cooperation that reaches levels that few Muslims countries have today if any.
 
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Because our current countries are not fully viable states, they were created by the west to fail and remain dependent. Once we have Muslim super states, for example of ECO states are one federation, our structural problems will be fixed. National Power will be immense and we would be able to truly project power. It will create confidence and an economy which will be able to pay for all of those researchers you need to win Nobels.
Agreed bro. Research is not something which is performed in brain and thoughts so that most of the modern writers tend to associate this plight of scientific discoveries among Muslims world towards philosophical and thinking aspects. In order to have a world class scientific achievements you need an economy and state powers which will be able to hold an education system where our youth will be able to perform all kind of the research in confidence.
I would ask these modernist that if conservative thinking or religious influence are the reasons you think, than why Israel have so much higher number of world class researchers.
 
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This is my model of a Muslim super state in North Africa which is connected to 3 sea lines of communications. This is how a viable state looks like.

* Superstate in white colors.

Super_State.jpg


I can only see the GCC and Pak/Afghan ever becoming a super state, under your conditions. The rest of the Muslim world would probably revolt, as they're more nationalist, rather than pan-Islamic.
 
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I can only see the GCC and Pak/Afghan ever becoming a super state, under your conditions. The rest of the Muslim world would probably revolt, as they're more nationalist, rather than pan-Islamic.
The only thing which are nationalist in these countries are ruling elites, ask any common Muslim fron any corner of the world, his heart will want unity and pan-Islamism.
 
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Islamic world cannot industrialize nor wake up from the hibernation period into an age of scientific and knowledge induced growth until and unless there's a pan Islamic integration either through war or peacefully which uproots puppet regimes installed for maintaining the post colonial hegemony by the Western order. It will be a painful but sustainable solution. We need to redraw our borders in order to create super states made up of small Muslim countries which are non viable states on their own at the moment. I have no problem if Egypt, Algeria, Sudan, Libya and Morocco join in peacefully or are forcefully annexed by another Muslim country into a super state. Similarly Pakistan should annex or join Afghanistan and other Muslim Central Asian countries into a Central Asian Super state. GCC is also a viable super state so are Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon a viable option for a super state.

joining up with central asian and afghans wont be a super state it will be a super fcuk up .. we have nothing in common except religion which is proven a failure in the past
 
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joining up with central asian and afghans wont be a super state it will be a super fcuk up .. we have nothing in common except religion which is proven a failure in the past
How much past do you know ? only from 1947 to 1971 ?
 
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You are wrong, what im suggesting is not Pan Islamism because that is just a dumb concept. What im suggesting is to create Muslim Super states based on the concept of state viability in terms of natural, human, intellectual and military resources. GCC for example can be a good super state because when put together it has everything a viable country should have. A Muslim super state in Central Asia would look like this. They can adopt a model of Govt which suits them best.

Central_Asia_(orthographic_projection).svg.png


Pan-Islamism is dying in the GCC and is slowly being replaced by nationalism. Especially after witnessing what pseudo pan-Islamism has given our region since a certain neighbor had a revolution in 1979 and after realizing how useless most current Muslim regimes are and how they use religion for their own gains. Leeching and more leeching. Inter-Islamic solidarity will never die between Muslims as long as we are alive but regime changes are necessary for such a policy to truly benefit most Muslims (read the masses) IMO. And here I am not talking about donations but cooperation that reaches levels that few Muslims countries have today if any.

You have no idea about the history. The first ancestors of who inhabited the Mehergarh in the neolithic age were central asian nomads. The concept of a super state is not based on having things in common but on mutual interest and viability. EU is such an example, they are dissimilar countries with history of war and conquest but they decided to fix their weaknesses by getting together.

joining up with central asian and afghans wont be a super state it will be a super fcuk up .. we have nothing in common except religion which is proven a failure in the past
 
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You are wrong, what im suggesting is not Pan Islamism because that is just a dumb concept. What im suggesting is to create Muslim Super states based on the concept of state viability in terms of natural, human, intellectual and military resources. GCC for example can be a good super state because when put together it has everything a viable country should have. A Muslim super state in Central Asia would look like this. They can adopt a model of Govt which suits them best.

View attachment 358993

Horus, I don't think that Pan-Islamism in itself is a dumb concept. The problem is, how it has been applied in recent times and who has led the attempts to create an Pan-Islamic utopia. I call it an utopia because this cannot be any differently with the current Muslim rulers in power expect a few good apples here and there.

GCC cannot be a "superstate" on its own. We would have to add the nearby Arab Near East (Sham + Iraq). As it was supposed to be if not for British betrayal. In fact if we are talking about largely utopian states we (as in Arabs) might as well turn the Arab League into a EU-like organization.

As for Muslim superstates, if they ever will be created and IF (the big question) world powers will allow it (doubtful), I would say that common language, culture, history, geography will have to play a key role here otherwise, I am afraid that it will be futile. Something else other than just religion has to bound people together. Best example is how West Pakistan split from East Pakistan despite sharing the same religion and same majority sect (Sunni Islam).

What has even made something like the GCC/Arab League possible, as effective or ineffective (mostly the latter) as it is is a common language, culture, history, religion, geography etc. Without those aspects such organizations would not exist as they would have no legitimacy or serve any purpose.

In the case of the GCC, we might border Iran directly, aside from the shallow Gulf that separates us both, but I cannot imagine us ever joining hands in a superstate as the situation is today. I rather do that with neighboring Egypt, Sham, Iraq and Maghreb. Essentially the Arab world. Also I doubt that Turks have any interests in joining hands with Iranians or Arabs or vice versa.

So an superstate composing the Near East/traditional Middle East seems very unlikely.



Your proposal seems more realistic IMO. But Russia (especially) and China will probably think differently about such a plan as will many people in all of those states probably.

That's not to say that such things would not be beneficial on most fronts if given a chance, trust and if everything worked according to plan. Previous Muslim Caliphates and kingdoms, sultanates, emirates, imamates, sheikdoms etc. (you name it) have proven successful despite being very diverse states. However whether it can be done in say 50 years time, I do not know, or in the current world as we know it. As I see it I would consider such ideas unrealistic more than realistic but what do I know?

Anyway first and foremost I believe that we need to learn how to treat minorities etc. better in our own countries before we begin to think about creating many times more diverse states (superstates).

Essentially a lot of good (potentially) could come out of such ideas but a also a lot of potential problems.

Personally I believe that we should first and foremost worry about improving our own countries and then the immediate region before we start to think about something greater.
 
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I agree with this. I've been saying for a while that the current in-fighting in the Muslim world (sectarianism?) reminds me a lot of China during the Chinese Civil War.

Unity is so important, without unity China was nothing, more backwards than North Korea. But one side has to win, that's the tough part.
There is no Qin in the Muslim world.
 
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Islamic world cannot industrialize nor wake up from the hibernation period into an age of scientific and knowledge induced growth until and unless there's a pan Islamic integration either through war or peacefully which uproots puppet regimes installed for maintaining the post colonial hegemony by the Western order. It will be a painful but sustainable solution. We need to redraw our borders in order to create super states made up of small Muslim countries which are non viable states on their own at the moment. I have no problem if Egypt, Algeria, Sudan, Libya and Morocco join in peacefully or are forcefully annexed by another Muslim country into a super state. Similarly Pakistan should annex or join Afghanistan and other Muslim Central Asian countries into a Central Asian Super state. GCC is also a viable super state so are Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon a viable option for a super state.

Maybe Afghanistan should annex Pakistan?

The tiny state of Israel has 185 Nobel Laurates.
From that follows that Muslims must create superstates to get more laurates :crazy:.
 
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Because our current countries are not fully viable states, they were created by the west to fail and remain dependent. Once we have Muslim super states, for example of ECO states are one federation, our structural problems will be fixed. National Power will be immense and we would be able to truly project power. It will create confidence and an economy which will be able to pay for all of those researchers you need to win Nobels.
This can only be done by force,who(which) is going to do it?

. A Muslim super state in Central Asia would look like this. They can adopt a model of Govt which suits them best.
This idea sounds interesting.

From that follows that Muslims must create superstates to get more laurates :crazy:.
What a disappointment,i thought higher of you.
Did it maybe for a second occur to you that it was never about Nobel laurates?
 
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I can only see the GCC and Pak/Afghan ever becoming a super state, under your conditions. The rest of the Muslim world would probably revolt, as they're more nationalist, rather than pan-Islamic.
So you rather be pan-islamic then nationalistic?
 
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