Turkish Tea House

[Neptune]

@Neptune Did you find yourself the right phone?

Hıı kendime s4 mini black édition aldım. kiz arkadaşıma da aynı telin beyazın aldım ya. Güzel cihaz ihtiyaçlarını karsiliyo

 

[rmi5]

@ASQ-1918 @Azeri440 @Ostad
Happy Novruz Guys! I wish you guys have very happy holidays!

 

[T-123456]

@Kaan o threade bak,tam balik

 

[Hakan]

@Kaan o threade bak,tam balik

salam guys thread?

 

[T-123456]

salam guys thread?

UK US NATO UKRAINE

 

[Armstrong]

let's say artillery/tanks,they're almost gone while our guys did a tremendous effort just to keep T55, tanks alive and running (around 500).I was wondering why the hell would you bother to keep those rust buckets alive when in reality only our 60 T85 M1 are worthy MBT's ? They told me it's important to have them as fighting units just to have the numbers for crews and training.Once they're gone ,it's bye bye for ever like in Hungary ,Slovakia,Bulgaria,Slovakia.

The T-55s might not be as bad as you think !

We upgraded our T-55s & its Chinese Versions considerably owing to :

(a) Us having between a 1000-2000 of them & for a Country like Pakistan that is facing an Enemy 5 times her size, with 10 times the Economy, 3 times the Army & God Knows how many times the Airforce & the Navy, thats a hell lot of Capital Expenditure incurred if they're to be replaced !

(b) It still fit our Threat-Perception in that we planned on using these 'lighter tanks' in the Flat, Agricultural Lands of Punjab (My Home Province) which borders India where a Heavy Tank just doesn't cut it !

So we embarked on an extensive & intensive upgradation program & came up with enough Modifications to bring it on par with Modern MBTs that it virtually recreated into a New Tank called the 'Al-Zarrar' !

These Al-Zarrars along with the Chinese Type-85 IIIs are for one kind of terrain & for specific tasks whilst our Sino-Pak JV that produced the Al-Khalids & the Ukrainian T-80UDs that we bought in the early 2000s are for a different kind of terrain & task !

So its all about what fits in your Threat-Perception Matrix !

Maybe the Romanian High Command thinks that a mix of Upgraded T-55s & T-85s provide the Minimum Credible Deterrence needed to protect Romania !

 

[flamer84]

The T-55s might not be as bad as you think !

We upgraded our T-55s & its Chinese Versions considerably owing to :

(a) Us having between a 1000-2000 of them & for a Country like Pakistan that is facing an Enemy 5 times her size, with 10 times the Economy, 3 times the Army & God Knows how many times the Airforce & the Navy, thats a hell lot of Capital Expenditure incurred if they're to be replaced !

(b) It still fit our Threat-Perception in that we planned on using these 'lighter tanks' in the Flat, Agricultural Lands of Punjab (My Home Province) which borders India where a Heavy Tank just doesn't cut it !

So we embarked on an extensive & intensive upgradation program & came up with enough Modifications to bring it on par with Modern MBTs that it virtually recreated into a New Tank called the 'Al-Zarrar' !

These Al-Zarrars along with the Chinese Type-85 IIIs are for one kind of terrain & for specific tasks whilst our Sino-Pak JV that produced the Al-Khalids & the Ukrainian T-80UDs that we bought in the early 2000s are for a different kind of terrain & task !

So its all about what fits in your Threat-Perception Matrix !

Maybe the Romanian High Command thinks that a mix of Upgraded T-55s & T-85s provide the Minimum Credible Deterrence needed to protect Romania !

From what i know from my sources (Army officers and romanian military blogs with their sources) they all consider the 500 + T55's and 200+ TR580 M (Romanian improved variant of T55) absolutely useless in modern warfare with only the TR85 M1 having an actual value but inferior in every way to the T90's and even latest upgrades of T72's .That's why all TR85 M1 "Bison"(50-60) and TR 85's (250) are scheduled for extensive upgrade to TR85 M2 (hopefully end of 2014 or 2015).

As for T55's,T580's replacements it's pretty clear that it won't be done on a 1/1 basis ,most likely 120-200 SH Leo A4-A5 with upgrades.There is a TR-2000 program but if you ask me,starting a indigenous tank program right now it's impossible for us and it won't be done.

All in all,400-500 farely modern tanks would be quite ok for us i think.

 

[Armstrong]

From what i know from my sources (Army officers and romanian military blogs with their sources) they all consider the 500 + T55's and 200+ TR580 M (Romanian improved variant of T55) absolutely useless in modern warfare with only the TR85 M1 having an actual value but inferior in every way to the T90's and even latest upgrades of T72's .That's why all TR85 M1 "Bison"(50-60) and TR 85's (250) are scheduled for extensive upgrade to TR85 M2 (hopefully end of 2014 or 2015).

As for T55's,T580's replacements it's pretty clear that it won't be done on a 1/1 basis ,most likely 120-200 SH Leo A4-A5 with upgrades.There is a TR-2000 program but if you ask me,starting a indigenous tank program right now it's impossible for us and it won't be done.

All in all,400-500 farely modern tanks would be quite ok for us i think.

Our Al-Zarrars are inferior to the T-90s too but then again they're to be pitted against India's T-72s with the T-80UDs & the Al-Khalids reserved for the Indian T-90s & Arjuns !

I don't know what the Economic Condition of Romania is but if its anything like ours - Excuse my French but we're pretty much foOked - upgrading may be a good way to move forward before the Economy picks up !

Dude, I just checked what a TR85 & a TR580's Stats are !

I mean look at the Al-Zarrar & the amount of upgrades we had to go through to make it reasonably good against Modern MBTs : Al-Zarrar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wiki page says that the TR85 still uses a 100mm Armament & no ERA !

I dunno if thats adequate or not !

 

[KingMamba]

Our Al-Zarrars are inferior to the T-90s too but then again they're to be pitted against India's T-72s with the T-80UDs & the Al-Khalids reserved for the Indian T-90s & Arjuns !

I don't know what the Economic Condition of Romania is but if its anything like ours - Excuse my French but we're pretty much foOked - upgrading may be a good way to move forward before the Economy picks up !

Dude, I just checked what a TR85 & a TR580's Stats are !

I mean look at the Al-Zarrar & the amount of upgrades we had to go through to make it reasonably good against Modern MBTs : Al-Zarrar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wiki page says that the TR85 still uses a 100mm Armament & no ERA !

I dunno if thats adequate or not !

@flamer84 What is the geography of Romania like? If Romania is cash strapped it could learn a thing or two from Pakistan about maximizing every cent to get the best bang for the buck.

@Armstrong maybe Pakistan could export some Khalid class tanks to Romania, Pakistani tanks were made to do battle with Russian model tanks and would be less costly to maintain than western tanks? Depends on the terrain of Romania imo.

 

[flamer84]

Dude, I just checked what a TR85 & a TR580's Stats are !

I mean look at the Al-Zarrar & the amount of upgrades we had to go through to make it reasonably good against Modern MBTs : Al-Zarrar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wiki page says that the TR85 still uses a 100mm Armament & no ERA !

I dunno if thats adequate or not !

Hence the "besides those 60-ish TR85M1's all the other ones are completely useless" part in what i've said earlier.And even those must be upgraded (alongside the rest of TR 85's ) especially to a 120mm standard whicis planned in the M2.The rest=scrapped.

Economical conditions...you know,like in Europe ,struggling economy,crisis,it picked up this year with some good forecasts for the medium future but as i've outlined in previous posts most of the purchases will be SH ,many upgrades to existent weapons or locally made so we won't spend tens of billions of $.The most expensive really are the fighter jets/weapons for them and long range,medium range air defence missile programs.

 

[Armstrong]

@flamer84 What is the geography of Romania like? If Romania is cash strapped it could learn a thing or two from Pakistan about maximizing every cent to get the best bang for the buck.

Do you know what @flamer84 is thinking right now ?

Hes thinking to himself that the 146th Ranked Country interms of Human Development Index *HDI* (Pakistan) is going to teach a country with an HDI Rank of 56 (Romania) !

Hes just too modest to slap us with that !

 

[flamer84]

@flamer84 What is the geography of Romania like? If Romania is cash strapped it could learn a thing or two from Pakistan about maximizing every cent to get the best bang for the buck.

@Armstrong maybe Pakistan could export some Khalid class tanks to Romania, Pakistani tanks were made to do battle with Russian model tanks and would be less costly to maintain than western tanks? Depends on the terrain of Romania imo.

From where the russians would flood in...plains man,plains .The Carpathian mountain region only protects Transilvania (1/3 of the country).

Do you know what @flamer84 is thinking right now ?

Hes thinking to himself that the 146th Ranked Country interms of Human Development Index *HDI* (Pakistan) is going to teach a country with an HDI Rank of 56 (Romania) !

Hes just too modest to slap us with that !

More likely "yeah,good luck telling that to our politicians who only dispatch contracts to american/EU firms regardless of price/quality ratio" ...Heck,they've rejected the Saab Gripen because "it's not widely used in NATO,hence hard to integrate"

 

[KingMamba]

Do you know what @flamer84 is thinking right now ?

Hes thinking to himself that the 146th Ranked Country interms of Human Development Index *HDI* (Pakistan) is going to teach a country with an HDI Rank of 56 (Romania) !

Hes just too modest to slap us with that !

Well in Pakistan's defense there are a lot more humans to develop lol.

 

[Armstrong]

Well in Pakistan's defense there are a lot more humans to develop lol.

There is that & perhaps the only face saving here though one can very easily argue that Romanians had less resources to develop their less humans than us too !

Hey @flamer84 do you know the entire population of Romania (21.4 million) is more or less equal to the entire population of the Pakistani City of Karachi (23.5 million) !

Damn....we breed like rabbits !

 

[T-123456]

There is that & perhaps the only face saving here though one can very easily argue that Romanians had less resources to develop their less humans than us too !

Hey @flamer84 do you know the entire population of Romania (21.4 million) is more or less equal to the entire population of the Pakistani City of Karachi (23.5 million) !

Damn....we breed like rabbits !