Turkish silent oppression of Kurds

[Targon]

http://inciswf.com/hayimvshocaefendi.swf

 

[Zulkarneyn]

1- We're speaking about the history, which means facts.

2- You're criticizing one of the very few accurate policy of AKP. According to you we should risk our economy in order to keep our relations warm with Iran? Then what do you think would happen to your beloved AKP if Turkey's economy take a damage ?

3- That is why i also said go and learn something about the Serbest Fırka, and why it has failed. Let me give you the answer: Because of the corrupt, "Yobaz" and backward people.

4- There were people who misunderstood him and damaged the country, but then again they are incomparable with those who "misunderstood quran" and corrupt the country and they are still doing that.
RELIGION - 'Tomatoes are Christian,' Egyptian Salafi group warns There are many morons like these people in Turkey too. And they are the one who is corrupting this country.

Lastly, i don't care your family or those who cursed it. Are you trying to say that Kemalists are so immoral, they are cursing and sh*t? But let me tell you this, i haven't seen anyone with the Ataturk's avatar that cursed people in this forum since my registration. But i saw many şakirts that cursed people's families etc...

I really hope you're right about that. If the foreign visitors are able to distinct the difference between kemalists and şakirts, that means, hopefuly, you're not going to stay here much long.

Are you serious? You just proved my point perfectly. Read my post #98 which u read btw but two hours has passed and you already forgot it as i foresaw, what did i say 2 hours ago?

As i said before since it seems you don't have the capacity to remember things for more than two hours: I do not support the Gulen movement at all. Look at all my posts concerning the gulen movement and you will realize how much i critisized them.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...-silent-oppression-kurds-7.html#ixzz1yRw0HN3O

You see why i can't take you guys seriously now? Let me say it one ore time so that you may be remember it more than two hours this time: I DO NOT SUPPORT THE GULEN MOVEMENT.
Can you understand it now or should i repeat the same sentence every 2 hour? Since you have obviously a hard time comprehending this issue, i have said very clearly many, many times that the Gulenists are at least as bad as the former kemalists who politicised every single institution in Turkey, the same thing is being repeated with these people now. The problem with you guys is that you think you are either a gulenist/akp or kemalist, there is no other way. That is why i can't take you seriously. We can't have a constructive discussion as long as you are stuck in the same plae of mind.

1: I am not a "typical samanyolu nurcu" or whatever. I in fact am very critical to their certain policies, herein trying to control the state via its institutions. Because there is no difference between them and the former Kemalists if they both use the same thing: politicizing every damn instition.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...ans-turks-commit-terrorist.html#ixzz1yRy0NTdt

I wrote this just a few days ago.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Also let us agree in this part so that we may have a common ground: The gulenists abuse islam like the former corrupt kemalists (ataturkcu dusunce dernegi etc) abused Mustafa Kemal. If you do that we may have a fair discussion.

 

[Targon]

More commonly "Islamists" conservative muslims are dangerous as extreme kemalists.

 

[TurAr]

I'm sorry friend, but your actions are contradicting with what you are saying.

Until you start to respect Ataturk, no deal, sorry.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

doesnt Iran also have a problem with some Kurdish militants

i was under impression Iran and Turkiye are jointly cooperating to fight Kurdish seperatists

if you raise arms against your state, obviously there must be a military reaction

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I'm sorry friend, but your actions are contradicting with what you are saying.

Until you start to respect Ataturk, no deal, sorry.

Grow up will ya, i don't disrespect a dead person. Disrespecting means to insult or curse, which i don't do. I just don't agree with some of his implementations and more importantly with today's "kemalists". For Turkey to grow we need to be in peace with each other which means allowing scarf in Universities and granting minority rights. Because a democracy's most important element is protecting its minorites against the "tyranny" of the majority. Do not intentionally misunderstand this, it is just a saying in political science. No one in their right mind can forcefully tell other people to be muslim or to love Mustafa Kemal or to live like a Turk, affection comes automatically and logically not with exterior motives.

 

[Selim I]

Guys it is pretty useless of you trying to fool people by accusing Zulkarneyn by calling him Gulenist or "Shakirt". I know Zulkarneyn from real life, and we have had constructive discussions with critical eyes on this subject together.

Instead of throwing mud at each other, try to focus on the thread? This thread started out with a fight where kemalist/ultra-nationalists against ultra-nationalist-iranians, and now it is the same kemlists/ultra-nationalists against other turkish members who doesn't share the same view as they do.
From what I observe, kemalists can't take a single critique from any perspective. And when anybody tries to argue with kemalists all they get in response is accusations by calling people names (trolls/shakirts/gulenists), is that really how you plan to progress in discussion?
The Turkish subforum has lost alot of quality day after day, since we got new kemalist members who are sheeping around like the bandwagon principle as Zulkarneyn mentions. Even thanking your fellow kemalist-comrades when he/she is calling a none-kemalist a troll or making a smiley.
Or even worse, when someone in the end puts some effort and writes a reply to this thread, they don't read this reply, but yet they comment to it telling "i didnt read it because its too long", and whats worse is that the sheeps are thanking that user because she didn't read that comment.

If I don't read a comment, I don't reply to it. Replying to that comment by saying "i didn't read it because it is too long" is showing the users egocentricism and his/her low brain capacity.

 

[mehmeTcc]

If I don't read a comment, I don't reply to it. Replying to that comment by saying "i didn't read it because it is too long" is showing the users egocentricism and his/her low brain capacity.

I'm not sure but maybe she was referring to inci sözlük meme : "özet geç ..."

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Also if you want to know my stance on Mustafa Kemal i recommend you read this post, it is a bit long but i tried to sum up my thought about it. I would be happy to hear your answer or critique if you read it. http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...rn-thought-turkey-problem-yet-not-solved.html

 

[Selim I]

Also if you want to know my stance on Mustafa Kemal i recommend you read this post, it is a bit long but i tried to sum up my thought about it. I would be happy to hear your answer or critique if you read it. http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...rn-thought-turkey-problem-yet-not-solved.html

Some users brain will implode if they see that article due to its length.

 

[TurAr]

Grow up will ya, i don't disrespect a dead person. Disrespecting means to insult or curse, which i don't do. I just don't agree with some of his implementations and more importantly with today's "kemalists". For Turkey to grow we need to be in peace with each other which means allowing scarf in Universities and granting minority rights. Because a democracy's most important element is protecting its minorites against the "tyranny" of the majority. Do not intentionally misunderstand this, it is just a saying in political science. No one in their right mind can forcefully tell other people to be muslim or to love Mustafa Kemal or to live like a Turk, affection comes automatically and logically not with exterior motives.

Agreed, what you said about democracy and right of minorities. But like i said you're contradicting with yourself. When you're defending the rights of minorities, you're forgetting about what Erdogan called Atheists. But i'm supporting the rights of people about wear whatever they want, either headscarfs or mini-skirt.

If you are serious about democracy, than you should know that without secularism, especially in Mideast, it is impossible to exercise real democracy. But you're keeping your silence about "raising religious (sunni muslim) generations" or about the budget of the precidency of religious affairs, which multiplied 6-7 times since AKP took power.
If you would have been critical about AKP like you said, you would have criticized this too.

There are several more contradictions with you that i can't remember right now...

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Agreed, what you said about democracy and right of minorities. But like i said you're contradicting with yourself. When you're defending the rights of minorities, you're forgetting about what Erdogan called Atheists. But i'm supporting the rights of people about wear whatever they want, either headscarfs or mini-skirt.

If you are serious about democracy, than you should know that without secularism, especially in Mideast, it is impossible to exercise real democracy. But you're keeping your silence about "raising religious (sunni muslim) generations".
If you would have been critical about AKP like you said, you would have criticized this too.

There are several more contradictions with you that i can't remember right now...

AKP is an islamist party so Erdogan wanting to raise a youth who is aware of their religious background is perfectly legitimate. Remember, it was the people who elected AKP. They are supportive of this stance since they obviously elected them into parliament. Also exercising democracy doesn't mean that you absolutely have to introduce secularism. Many non-secular countries are democracies and very fine at that, in fact almost every European country is not secular except France and maybe few others. I tried to sum up in the thread i posted above why Turkey has failed to raise democratic standards for a very long time. The prime reason according to my observations is that by alienating/marginalizing a very large portion of the population (Kurds, Muslims etc.) there has been inner conflict which has stunned the development for democracy, no one in their sane mind can deny that.

 

[Selim I]

Agreed, what you said about democracy and right of minorities. But like i said you're contradicting with yourself. When you're defending the rights of minorities, you're forgetting about what Erdogan called Atheists. But i'm supporting the rights of people about wear whatever they want, either headscarfs or mini-skirt.

If you are serious about democracy, than you should know that without secularism, especially in Mideast, it is impossible to exercise real democracy. But you're keeping your silence about "raising religious (sunni muslim) generations" or about the budget of the precidency of religious affairs, which multiplied 6-7 times since AKP took power.
If you would have been critical about AKP like you said, you would have criticized this too.

There are several more contradictions with you that i can't remember right now...

I wouldn't call your examples contradictions. That's the AKP policies which you dislike not Zulkarneyn, just because he doesn't agree with what you are disagreeing doesn't prove that he is contradicting himself.

Perhaps you don't know the meaning of "contradiction", I don't believe he said words against "rasing religions generations" in one thread and then supported that view. But if he did you better prove it, or else you are making a false accusation once again.

 

[Targon]

Our people is not mature enough to understand what other people do is not concerns them, in fact, even the state leader is not aware of that, thats why a secular system without restrictions againts believers is the only democratic way.

AKP is abusing the minds of simple minded ordinary people for the demands of a small cemaat elite, most of them not even have a clear political view, they don't care about the agenda.