Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

[TurAr]

it's fair to say shame on Erdogan, but these things essentially won't go away with AKP. Every party will bring with it its own dirty acts, blackmails, eavesdropping, corruption, you name it. If you want to get democracy by avoiding this kind of things, then i can say with confidence that the west is also not democratic. such things happen everywhere, since corruption is everywhere. but i can understand that such things will come out suddenly more and more during election times.

Not in this scale, but yeah such things have happened before and we had ministers who were trialed and convicted. None of those governments had purged thousands of police chiefs and prosecutors. None of them had tried to change the justice system into their favor so that they could get away. Besides, corruption is not the only problem we have right now, i strongly suggest you to listen to those tapes, it shows how AKP interfere in freedom of speech, how he silences the opposition by using his servants, which you used to criciticize few pages back for not doing a good job at opposition.

 

[usernameless]

They at least, resign in the West. They don't go for a internet cencorship and ruin the countries image.

Turkey ranks second in Internet censors

Turkey ranks second after China in demands to ban Internet content, according to a new report by the Economic Policy Research Foundation of Turkey (TEPAV), amid a controversial new Internet law increasing restrictions and the government’s power over the Internet, daily Radikal reported.

The report comes at a time when protests have been held in several cities against a controversial Internet law that allows a government agency, the Telecommunications Communications Presidency (TİB), to block access to websites without a court order if the site is deemed to violate privacy or has “insulting” content.

On Feb. 8, police used tear gas and water cannons to disperse protesters in central Istanbul during a march against the law.

Hundreds of people gathered near Galatasaray Square on İstiklal Avenue upon a call from social media to protest against the new curbs, which have been criticized by a wide-range of institutions and human rights groups over the last week.

Police used pressurized water on protesters, while some officers also fired tear gas and rubber bullets.

The Internet law was approved by Parliament on Feb. 6, and gives the authority to block access to web pages to the head of the TİB. It has been widely seen as a government move to increase control over citizens’ online activities.

Earlier on Feb. 8, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan had vehemently rejected criticism of the new curbs.

“These regulations do not impose any censorship at all on the Internet ... On the contrary, they make it safer and freer,” Erdoğan told a crowd of several thousand supporters in Istanbul.

He also denied that the authorities would now have access to Internet users’ personal information.

“It is out of the question that people’s private data will be recorded,” said Erdoğan.

Opposition parties, as well as Turkey’s leading business organization the Turkish Industrialists’ and Businessmen’s Association (TÜSİAD) and other international organizations, have called on President Abdullah Gül to veto the bill.

Prices exorbitant

Meanwhile, Internet subscription prices offered in Turkey are more expensive than many OECD countries for different Internet speeds, according to another report released by TEPAV on Feb. 4.

In Turkey, the average subscription price for high-speed internet reaches $621 per year, while in the closest follower, Luxemburg, the price of high-speed Internet subscription is only $112, according to the research titled “How Is Internet Usage Changing in Turkey? An Assessment of Internet Users.”

The research also revealed that as of 2009, 62 percent of the population in Turkey had never used the Internet.

RIGHTS - Turkey ranks second in Internet censors: Report

'to block access to websites without a court order if the site is deemed to violate privacy or has “insulting” content'.
it says insulting content, not criticizing. If Erdogan wants to avoid criticism, he would have done so years ago. Besides, Twitter and FB, where most of the insults and criticizes take place, surely won't be closed down. if yes, it will be the end for Erdogan in my book. To my mind comes blocking of cartoons of the prophet, sites aimed at aiming insulting Ataturk, pornography etc. When i was studying in south Korea, i saw that there were restrictions on the internet too. the Netherlands and France took the initiative to introduce 'internet filters' in the EU years ago, while the Dutch govt pretends that it is actually promoting freedom. it's everywhere, get used to it. the west is not perfect, neither is democracy. Turkey must find democracy that suits Turkish values, not enforce a democracy on Turkey that is solely based on Western values. Nonetheless, i think that Erdogan is a sly smart fox, so i am sure he will have his own benefits too, but so do aim all politicians .

 

[-SINAN-]

'to block access to websites without a court order if the site is deemed to violate privacy or has “insulting” content'.
it says insulting content, not criticizing. If Erdogan wants to avoid criticism, he would have done so years ago. Besides, Twitter and FB, where most of the insults and criticizes take place, surely won't be closed down. if yes, it will be the end for Erdogan in my book. To my mind comes blocking of cartoons of the prophet, sites aimed at aiming insulting Ataturk, pornography etc. When i was studying in south Korea, i saw that there were restrictions on the internet too. the Netherlands and France took the initiative to introduce 'internet filters' in the EU years ago, while the Dutch govt pretends that it is actually promoting freedom. it's everywhere, get used to it. the west is not perfect, neither is democracy. Turkey must find democracy that suits Turkish values, not enforce a democracy on Turkey that is solely based on Western values. Nonetheless, i think that Erdogan is a sly smart fox, so i am sure he will have his own benefits too, but so do aim all politicians .

The keyword here is "without a court order" basically government given itself judicial powers and restricts peoples rights.

 

[usernameless]

Not in this scale, but yeah such things have happened before and we had ministers who were trialed and convicted. None of those governments had purged thousands of police chiefs and prosecutors. None of them had tried to change the justice system into their favor so that they could get away. Besides, corruption is not the only problem we have right now, i strongly suggest you to listen to those tapes, it shows how AKP interfere in freedom of speech, how he silences the opposition by using his servants, which you used to criciticize few pages back for not doing a good job at opposition.

well, knowing Turkey's internal was/is a mess, a mystery, let someone purge it. someone has to do it at a certain point. of course there might be suspicion that the ruling party, akp in this case, might place its own men after the purge, but what can you and i do about it in the end? we know nothing in detail, we just base our opinion on what we get to see without knowing whether what we get to see is truly 100% complete story or not. we must not be naive. thanks to the videos Sinan posted i have seen Erdogan's negative face again, but in my opinion i have the right to question the authenticity of the sources, no matter pro or anti-akp. besides, the people involved in eavesdropping this conversation have crossed a line as well. eavesdropping never should be tolerated, no matter akp, chp or mhp. akp is definitively not saintly, neither is any other party, but the majority (i count myself as one as well) have seen more good from them than other parties in the past. we are now throwing mud at each other's party without ever reaching a conclusion.

The keyword here is "without a court order" basically government given itself judicial powers and restricts peoples rights.

I can tell you that the Dutch govt does the same. they have appointed a governmental body that keeps track of that so-called internet filter. the judiciary doesn;t have a word to say about that.

 

[TurAr]

well, knowing Turkey's internal was/is a mess, a mystery, let someone purge it. someone has to do it at a certain point. of course there might be suspicion that the ruling party, akp in this case, might place its own men after the purge, but what can you and i do about it in the end? we know nothing in detail, we just base our opinion on what we get to see without knowing whether what we get to see is truly 100% complete story or not. we must not be naive. thanks to the videos Sinan posted i have seen Erdogan's negative face again, but in my opinion i have the right to question the authenticity of the sources, no matter pro or anti-akp. besides, the people involved in eavesdropping this conversation have crossed a line as well. eavesdropping never should be tolerated, no matter akp, chp or mhp. akp is definitively not saintly, neither is any other party, but the majority (i count myself as one as well) have seen more good from them than other parties in the past. we are now throwing mud at each other's party without ever reaching a conclusion.

Judging by your posts so far, it seem to me that you are not well-informed about the recent developments in Turkey. Apparently, you didn't know about those tapes which were recorded by the order/permission of the courts, until we share them here. I bet, you don't know there are about six or seven more out there either. You can see each of their IDs at the start of the video if you have concerns about their authenticity.

I'm not interested about the reasons why you are supporting AKP. I simply don't care but stop producing silly excuses by using Western countries in order to justify their undemocratic actions. I find your useless struggle disturbing.

I can tell you that the Dutch govt does the same. they have appointed a governmental body that keeps track of that so-called internet filter. the judiciary doesn;t have a word to say about that.

I urge you to pay attention to the title: "Turkey ranks second in Internet censors after China"

 

[Saithan]

There is actually a simple way around this dilemma. Place Turkeys judiciary directly under the EU judicial system. Abolish the justice ministry. Sounds pretty much like Turkey needs external administration on our judiciary!

I don't see any other way of getting rid of this dilemma. Erdogan with foam around his mouth attacks any and everyone on a whim. He could accuse anyone of being a gülen supporter and you'd be fucked.

Please do note that you're being judged based on your ideology.

 

[tesla]

For my ignorant countrymen who still defends AKP blindly.

Proof of Erdogan's direct interference towards media.

so what? nice movement by erdogan lol we seen that 28 february coup democracy lol at least tayyip dont interfere sözcü cumhuriyet ulusal so they are insulting tayyip everyday anyway in that times (28 february) you werent love democracy so much today whats happened ? all of you remembered democracy, human rights free media immediately ha haa the other parties are just comedy there is no plan , proje just they says that tayyip resignation lol at least tayyip try to develope our country with good projects and future plans still my ignorant countrymen(gezizekalılar) who still defends chp or its left derivatives blindly go on cry in the corner mate

 

[-SINAN-]

so what? nice movement by erdogan lol we seen that 28 february coup democracy lol at least tayyip dont interfere sözcü cumhuriyet ulusal so they are insulting tayyip everyday anyway in that times (28 february) you werent love democracy so much today whats happened ? all of you remembered democracy, human rights free media immediately ha haa the other parties are just comedy there is no plan , proje just they says that tayyip resignation lol at least tayyip try to develope our country with good projects and future plans still my ignorant countrymen(gezizekalılar) who still defends chp or its left derivatives blindly go on cry in the corner mate

I can't understand what you are trying to say.

Are you defending theft, bribe, extorsion, kul hakkı yemek ? I saying and asking very simple things but you guys can't answer a simple question. Hilarious.

 

[tesla]

Are you defending theft, bribe, extorsion, kul hakkı yemek ? I saying and asking very simple things but you guys can't answer a simple question. Hilarious.[/quote]

things but you guys can't answer a simple question. Hilarious.[/quote]

I can't understand what you are trying to say.

Are you defending theft, bribe, extorsion, kul hakkı yemek ? I saying and asking very simple things but you guys can't answer a simple question. Hilarious.

kul hakkı çok güzek en fazla bu hükümet yardım etti yoksul insanlara ucuz sağlık eğitim vss vs
kusura bakma kardeş sen tam iki yüzlüsün o zaman sarıgül için dede anlayım tayyip ten önce 2000 2001 krizlerinde bu ülkenin tam 80 milyar doları gitti o zaman neden bu kadar çırlamadınız yazık ya size tayyip bakanları görevden alıyo istifa ettiriyo hala aynı terane sizin amacınız yolsuzluk kul hakkı değil yeterki tayyip gitsin 3 milyondolarr yolsuzluk için bu ülkenin 20 milyar doları gitti operasyonu yapan adamlar arkamızdan kıs kıs gülü a.k bunlar ne gerzek millet diye özel sektörde çalışıyosan ticaretle uğraşıyomusun bilmiyorum arkadaşım ama bana dahi en ufak alım satımda yolsuzluk damgası vurabilirler çok kolaydır bu bunu ticaretle uğraşan herkes bilir o yüzden kimse bu yolsuzluk palavrasına kimse bi sikim vermiyo

 

[-SINAN-]

kul hakkı çok güzek en fazla bu hükümet yardım etti yoksul insanlara ucuz sağlık eğitim vss vs
kusura bakma kardeş sen tam iki yüzlüsün o zaman sarıgül için dede anlayım tayyip ten önce 2000 2001 krizlerinde bu ülkenin tam 80 milyar doları gitti o zaman neden bu kadar çırlamadınız yazık ya size tayyip bakanları görevden alıyo istifa ettiriyo hala aynı terane sizin amacınız yolsuzluk kul hakkı değil yeterki tayyip gitsin 3 milyondolarr yolsuzluk için bu ülkenin 20 milyar doları gitti operasyonu yapan adamlar arkamızdan kıs kıs gülü a.k bunlar ne gerzek millet diye özel sektörde çalışıyosan ticaretle uğraşıyomusun bilmiyorum arkadaşım ama bana dahi en ufak alım satımda yolsuzluk damgası vurabilirler çok kolaydır bu bunu ticaretle uğraşan herkes bilir o yüzden kimse bu yolsuzluk palavrasına kimse bi sikim vermiyo

Arkadaşım daha ne diyim yani. Tayyibten önce şöyleydi böyle diyosunuz hala. Ben burda senin düşüdüğünün aksine ne CHP'yi ne başka bir partiyi savunuyorum. Ben ülkemi seviyorum.

Şimdi söyle, halkın parasını yiyenlere, AKP-CHP veya herhangi bir parti için söylemiyorum, miktarı içinde söylemiyorum, bunu reva görüyo musun ? "La, herkes yiyor zaten bunlarda yesin " diyorsan zaten senle konuşacak hiçbir şeyimiz yok.

 

[ANMDT]

Let me telling this before i begin to talk : i am not a AKP supporter, nor Cemaat
In recent years, noone can deny how Cemaat organized in police departments , even in critical positions , in judiciary dept even in Military ( i know many people joing TurAF buty with cemaat's advisory )
It was AKP who is allowing them to do that ,but since AKP realized cemaat is going over and over (parallel organization is so true even seems funny to say ) , when they tried to stop them cemaat begin to yell out about AKP , moving against then suprise ! A anti corruption operation !
that corruption if done ,its being done for 5-6 years, do those police have just realized?
Everyone knows how Cemaat played games during ergenekon , there were true ergenekon members arrested, but cemaat also bring anyone to court and got them arrested with fake clues .
Engineers in many crucial defence projects somehow arrested with ergenekon "timing is meaningfull " Engineer who pioneers milgem ,also missile or aviation etc just arrested and there was a documentary includes videos about police record while finding evidences, they are not actors so they were so noob in acting .
What i mean to tell ,i dont clarify AKP here,but Cemaat isnt innocent at all. some years ago cemaat is biggest supporter for internet cencor so now whats wrong
Well ok, i also dont support cencorship on internet but the news about we are after china is totally wrong
china even cant reach facebook,youtube google, etc etc , after china,there is iran, russia, arabian countries , vietnam etc , and then its us .
EU shouldnt say we are not free, its their own intelligence agencies who listens fiberobtic in seas , or tracking many people with name of " terrorism" and they are even worse than us by doing illegaly.
so to sum up everything i am telling , Cemaat is main actor for problems in turkey last 5 years , and i dont support internet cencorship , AKP just going like self defence (same as turtle )
Thaanks

 

[usernameless]

Let me telling this before i begin to talk : i am not a AKP supporter, nor Cemaat
In recent years, noone can deny how Cemaat organized in police departments , even in critical positions , in judiciary dept even in Military ( i know many people joing TurAF buty with cemaat's advisory )
It was AKP who is allowing them to do that ,but since AKP realized cemaat is going over and over (parallel organization is so true even seems funny to say ) , when they tried to stop them cemaat begin to yell out about AKP , moving against then suprise ! A anti corruption operation !
that corruption if done ,its being done for 5-6 years, do those police have just realized?
Everyone knows how Cemaat played games during ergenekon , there were true ergenekon members arrested, but cemaat also bring anyone to court and got them arrested with fake clues .
Engineers in many crucial defence projects somehow arrested with ergenekon "timing is meaningfull " Engineer who pioneers milgem ,also missile or aviation etc just arrested and there was a documentary includes videos about police record while finding evidences, they are not actors so they were so noob in acting .
What i mean to tell ,i dont clarify AKP here,but Cemaat isnt innocent at all. some years ago cemaat is biggest supporter for internet cencor so now whats wrong
Well ok, i also dont support cencorship on internet but the news about we are after china is totally wrong
china even cant reach facebook,youtube google, etc etc , after china,there is iran, russia, arabian countries , vietnam etc , and then its us .
EU shouldnt say we are not free, its their own intelligence agencies who listens fiberobtic in seas , or tracking many people with name of " terrorism" and they are even worse than us by doing illegaly.
so to sum up everything i am telling , Cemaat is main actor for problems in turkey last 5 years , and i dont support internet cencorship , AKP just going like self defence (same as turtle )
Thaanks

couldnt have said it better than myself. There are wrong things with the AKP, but there are also many wrong things with the opposition, Gulen, Turkey´s internal state, the EU´s hypocrite and hostile behavior towards us, yet some Turkish members here blame AKP and Akp supporters just for the heck of it. They expect things will be well and real democracy will be achieved if another party will take the lead. Trust me, if CHP will gets to rule, Turkey will be put into positive spotlights because that party will do lots of things just to get ´close´ to the EU, as if that is a good thing. I said it many times, AKP is not holy, neither is any other party. Turkey´s state now is like choosing between two devils, AKP and other parties that failed before, seem fishy or the ones that won´t get enough votes anyway. I simply choose the one that pursues an independent road for Turkey, and that´s my opinion, deal with it.

I'm not interested about the reasons why you are supporting AKP. I simply don't care but stop producing silly excuses by using Western countries in order to justify their undemocratic actions. I find your useless struggle disturbing.

I simply look at the coin from both sides. The ones that urge us to become a better democracy, and place us at 2nd rank above China for God´s sake, are the ones who are also hypocrite and sneaky in their own way of democracy. just because i bring up western countries doesnt mean i am trying to justify it, i just want to show you that the EU is not what you think it is. i know that Erdogan also has its mistakes.

 

[-SINAN-]

yet some Turkish members here blame AKP and Akp supporters just for the heck of it. They expect things will be well and real democracy will be achieved if another party, read CHP, will take the lead.

Can you quote the member who defended CHP ?

 

[telkon]

Can you quote the member who defended CHP ?

it's reflexive of akp supporters. they think whoever criticizes akp must be pro-chp. i feel sorry for their lack of comprehension.

 

[usernameless]

Can you quote the member who defended CHP ?

it´s my mistake that i put ´read CHP´ in that way. edited