Bismarck
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Of course.
Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs
- Thread starter Yuuki
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Of course.
Bubblegum Crisis
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MarkusS
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No i´m not. I´m full of doubts and mistakes.
only between nations of islam?
Bismarck
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...
@KediKesenFare
Requests for more than 400 000 Syrian Sunnis - a part of us - bombed, massacred, pulverized, burned, tortured, raped etc... by Mullahs - their will -. And this is only one example among hundreds of others for over a thousand year. Compris !
@Bubblegum Crisis
Their is really one thing I want to know. Why SA is no harboring any Arab refugees? You have the money, the place and capacity.
Islamic faith&Secularism
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Salafism and Shia are the same thing in principle.
When will Salafis stop using Sunni name for their sick ideology?
Anyway, this is not the topic of this thread, so please move your shia and salafi debate to someother place.
Bubblegum Crisis
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Bubblegum Crisis
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So easy ! All who know me know perfectly well that I'm the last one would be characterized as Salafi. This is the opposite I hate them until last one of my atoms.
Mais se cacher la tête dans le sable n’efface pas la réalité du monde !
It's true. So
...
CrimsonFury
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There is growing anger with Europe in Turkey, and not just among supporters of President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, but also his bitter detractors. The feeling is that Europe, which is supposedly keen on speaking up for democracy and human rights, has forsaken Turkey.
Erdoğan is angry over Europe’s lukewarm stance against the July 15 failed coup attempt and lack of visible support for the democratically-elected government that foiled it.
Can Dündar from daily Cumhuriyet, who stands at the opposite end of the scale to Erdoğan, is angry with European governments for their lack of support when he was in prison for publishing a story on illegal arms shipments by the government to anti-Bashar al-Assad forces in Syria.
Dündar wrote to German Chancellor Angela Merkel while in prison, asking her not turn a blind eye to pressures against the free media in Turkey for the sake of the EU’s refugee deal with Turkey. The letter fell on deaf ears. In the end it was self-interest and not values that motivated Europe, which needs Erdoğan’s support, given its nightmare of being flooded by illegal migrants.
European criticism of the current roundup in Turkey of alleged supporters or sympathizers of the coup attempt – which many say amounts to a witch hunt – also appears shallow given the belated response to the coup attempt itself.
Europe’s problem centers on the personality of Erdoğan, who has become its bête noire. The impression many Turks got from the half-hearted support Turkey got after the coup attempt was that Europe had hoped secretly this attempt would end Erdoğan’s rule.
Europe’s criticism of the ongoing dragnet against alleged coup plotters and their sympathizers also appears to be based on the dislike of Erdoğan, rather than a genuine concern about democracy in Turkey.
European governments have to realize that this will have a lasting effect on their ties with this country.
Erdoğan, whose hand is much stronger now, is saying these ties will continue, but there will be no love in them.
Put another way, Turkey is unlikely to do Europe anymore favors unless it sees the money upfront. Merkel’s long standing desire to see “Turkey out of the EU but anchored to Europe” is also in danger.
Analyses and commentary in the West by some self-declared “Turkey experts,” much of which is less than intelligent (to put it politely), is merely pouring more fuel on the fire. These “analysts” are revealing with what they say or write that they would have wished this coup attempt had succeeded. There are even irresponsible “commentators” who are arguing that the coup should have succeeded but failed because Erdoğan was not killed outright.
These people felt no need to consider that Erdoğan is ultimately an elected leader, and that the coup, if it had succeeded, would have ended democracy in Turkey for sure. The merciless way the coup plotters fired on citizens and bombed parliament seems not to have woken these “brilliant minds” to what would have happened if the coup had succeeded.
The coup plotters were opposed by a heavily armed police and thousands of people (many of them Erdoğan supporters) taking to the streets. This showed that this would not be the “clinical coup” that got rid of a despised leader but would have ignited a protracted civil war.
Unabashed Western supporters of the foiled coup attempt found no need to consider that the only winner of this outcome would be groups like the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), for which a new front, just on the doorsteps of Europe, would have been opened, and that Europe would have faced an even larger refugee crisis.
On reading some of the Western “analysis” now, one is sorely tempted to ask how stupid some people can get. Europe failed its litmus test at a crucial moment in history, and proved Erdoğan right in the eyes of his supporters regarding “Western treachery.”
To distance themselves from Erdoğan, European officials used to say, “We are not dealing with Erdoğan, but Turkey.” They’ll have to deal with Erdoğan now.
August/02/2016
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/eu...test.aspx?pageID=449&nID=102358&NewsCatID=416
Erdoğan is angry over Europe’s lukewarm stance against the July 15 failed coup attempt and lack of visible support for the democratically-elected government that foiled it.
Can Dündar from daily Cumhuriyet, who stands at the opposite end of the scale to Erdoğan, is angry with European governments for their lack of support when he was in prison for publishing a story on illegal arms shipments by the government to anti-Bashar al-Assad forces in Syria.
Dündar wrote to German Chancellor Angela Merkel while in prison, asking her not turn a blind eye to pressures against the free media in Turkey for the sake of the EU’s refugee deal with Turkey. The letter fell on deaf ears. In the end it was self-interest and not values that motivated Europe, which needs Erdoğan’s support, given its nightmare of being flooded by illegal migrants.
European criticism of the current roundup in Turkey of alleged supporters or sympathizers of the coup attempt – which many say amounts to a witch hunt – also appears shallow given the belated response to the coup attempt itself.
Europe’s problem centers on the personality of Erdoğan, who has become its bête noire. The impression many Turks got from the half-hearted support Turkey got after the coup attempt was that Europe had hoped secretly this attempt would end Erdoğan’s rule.
Europe’s criticism of the ongoing dragnet against alleged coup plotters and their sympathizers also appears to be based on the dislike of Erdoğan, rather than a genuine concern about democracy in Turkey.
European governments have to realize that this will have a lasting effect on their ties with this country.
Erdoğan, whose hand is much stronger now, is saying these ties will continue, but there will be no love in them.
Put another way, Turkey is unlikely to do Europe anymore favors unless it sees the money upfront. Merkel’s long standing desire to see “Turkey out of the EU but anchored to Europe” is also in danger.
Analyses and commentary in the West by some self-declared “Turkey experts,” much of which is less than intelligent (to put it politely), is merely pouring more fuel on the fire. These “analysts” are revealing with what they say or write that they would have wished this coup attempt had succeeded. There are even irresponsible “commentators” who are arguing that the coup should have succeeded but failed because Erdoğan was not killed outright.
These people felt no need to consider that Erdoğan is ultimately an elected leader, and that the coup, if it had succeeded, would have ended democracy in Turkey for sure. The merciless way the coup plotters fired on citizens and bombed parliament seems not to have woken these “brilliant minds” to what would have happened if the coup had succeeded.
The coup plotters were opposed by a heavily armed police and thousands of people (many of them Erdoğan supporters) taking to the streets. This showed that this would not be the “clinical coup” that got rid of a despised leader but would have ignited a protracted civil war.
Unabashed Western supporters of the foiled coup attempt found no need to consider that the only winner of this outcome would be groups like the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), for which a new front, just on the doorsteps of Europe, would have been opened, and that Europe would have faced an even larger refugee crisis.
On reading some of the Western “analysis” now, one is sorely tempted to ask how stupid some people can get. Europe failed its litmus test at a crucial moment in history, and proved Erdoğan right in the eyes of his supporters regarding “Western treachery.”
To distance themselves from Erdoğan, European officials used to say, “We are not dealing with Erdoğan, but Turkey.” They’ll have to deal with Erdoğan now.
August/02/2016
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/eu...test.aspx?pageID=449&nID=102358&NewsCatID=416
AUz
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Turks, the secularists/Kemalists, I am talking to you here.
What now?
It is easy to say "Ummah is dead. No ummah blah blah"....but you yourself saw the people/masses who genuinely cared and prayed for Turkey and Turks' safety were all Muslims from Islamic World--whether from Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. I underlined masses because that's what I want to focus on. Policy, state interests, competition all aside---but average Muslims, no matter wheever they are--do feel the pain of fellow Muslims and see other Muslims with true brotherly feelings at the end of the day--and want nothing but best for each other.
And then there's West. They couldn't care less about Turks or Turkey. All they care about is their own interests, their own profits, and their own vision of life. For them, Turks are barbarians whether they are Europeanized or not. Yes, "Europeanized barbarians" are preferable, offcourse, But at the end of the day, they will NEVER see Turks and Turkey with same brotherly lenses as Muslims throughout the world see.
This coup has absolutely clarified the difference for those who want to accept reality. Parliament bombed, citizens killed, innocent men, children, and women murdered---but Europeans---"democractic", "civilized"--Europeans would care more about their dog's shit than Turkey. All they want is to implement their interests in Turkey and wider region--and for that, if entire Turkey went to civil war (god forbid)--they wouldn't sweat much.
These holders of "liberal values", "human rights", and "democracy" are nothing but pure self-interest driven merchants that only want their own profits. And you saw it clearly as coup was happening in Turkey. NONE, NOT ONE!, of em stood with Turkey or Turkey's people (even when secular opposition also opposed the coup).
We all have differences and different viewpoints (Secular, Islamic, Liberal, Conservative etc)---but one always be clear in regards to who are his true friends/brothers and who are mere profiteers that wouldn't hesitate to throw him under the bus if their profit making scheme demands it.
And for Turks--whether religious, secularists, Atheists, Kemalists, or Erdoganists--this differentiation was made easy by real life events that threatened the very foundation of peace and stability in the modern Turkish Republic.
What now?
It is easy to say "Ummah is dead. No ummah blah blah"....but you yourself saw the people/masses who genuinely cared and prayed for Turkey and Turks' safety were all Muslims from Islamic World--whether from Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. I underlined masses because that's what I want to focus on. Policy, state interests, competition all aside---but average Muslims, no matter wheever they are--do feel the pain of fellow Muslims and see other Muslims with true brotherly feelings at the end of the day--and want nothing but best for each other.
And then there's West. They couldn't care less about Turks or Turkey. All they care about is their own interests, their own profits, and their own vision of life. For them, Turks are barbarians whether they are Europeanized or not. Yes, "Europeanized barbarians" are preferable, offcourse, But at the end of the day, they will NEVER see Turks and Turkey with same brotherly lenses as Muslims throughout the world see.
This coup has absolutely clarified the difference for those who want to accept reality. Parliament bombed, citizens killed, innocent men, children, and women murdered---but Europeans---"democractic", "civilized"--Europeans would care more about their dog's shit than Turkey. All they want is to implement their interests in Turkey and wider region--and for that, if entire Turkey went to civil war (god forbid)--they wouldn't sweat much.
These holders of "liberal values", "human rights", and "democracy" are nothing but pure self-interest driven merchants that only want their own profits. And you saw it clearly as coup was happening in Turkey. NONE, NOT ONE!, of em stood with Turkey or Turkey's people (even when secular opposition also opposed the coup).
We all have differences and different viewpoints (Secular, Islamic, Liberal, Conservative etc)---but one always be clear in regards to who are his true friends/brothers and who are mere profiteers that wouldn't hesitate to throw him under the bus if their profit making scheme demands it.
And for Turks--whether religious, secularists, Atheists, Kemalists, or Erdoganists--this differentiation was made easy by real life events that threatened the very foundation of peace and stability in the modern Turkish Republic.
CrimsonFury
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There needs to be a...rebalancingTurks, the secularists/Kemalists, I am talking to you here.
What now?
It is easy to say "Ummah is dead. No ummah blah blah"....but you yourself saw the people/masses who genuinely cared and prayed for Turkey and Turks' safety were all Muslims from Islamic World--whether from Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. I underlined masses because that's what I want to focus on. Policy, state interests, competition all aside---but average Muslims, no matter wheever they are--do feel the pain of fellow Muslims and see other Muslims with true brotherly feelings at the end of the day--and want nothing but best for each other.
And then there's West. They couldn't care less about Turks or Turkey. All they care about is their own interests, their own profits, and their own vision of life. For them, Turks are barbarians whether they are Europeanized or not. Yes, "Europeanized barbarians" are preferable, offcourse, But at the end of the day, they will NEVER see Turks and Turkey with same brotherly lenses as Muslims throughout the world see.
This coup has absolutely clarified the difference for those who want to accept reality. Parliament bombed, citizens killed, innocent men, children, and women murdered---but Europeans---"democractic", "civilized"--Europeans would care more about their dog's shit than Turkey. All they want is to implement their interests in Turkey and wider region--and for that, if entire Turkey went to civil war (god forbid)--they wouldn't sweat much.
These holders of "liberal values", "human rights", and "democracy" are nothing but pure self-interest driven merchants that only want their own profits. And you saw it clearly as coup was happening in Turkey. NONE, NOT ONE!, of em stood with Turkey or Turkey's people (even when secular opposition also opposed the coup).
We all have differences and different viewpoints (Secular, Islamic, Liberal, Conservative etc)---but one always be clear in regards to who are his true friends/brothers and who are mere profiteers that wouldn't hesitate to throw him under the bus if their profit making scheme demands it.
And for Turks--whether religious, secularists, Atheists, Kemalists, or Erdoganists--this differentiation was made easy by real life events that threatened the very foundation of peace and stability in the modern Turkish Republic.
CrimsonFury
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Turkey’s intel service to be restructured after failed coup attempt: Report
Turkey is planning to restructure its National Intelligence Service (MİT) after the failed July 15 coup attempt, amid criticisms against its shortcomings during the failed takeover, according to a report.
The move will involve splitting MİT so that foreign espionage and domestic counter-intelligence work are handled by different entities.
“The idea of bringing MİT and the General Staff under the control of the presidency is not new. But the coup attempt made the restructuring of the TSK [Turkish Armed Forces] and the intelligence inevitable,” wrote Hürriyet daily columnist Abdulkadir Selvi on July 2, adding that President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan had signaled the changes before in a meeting on May 5.
“After the cabinet meeting on July 1, Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmuş announced that restructuring would be carried out in intelligence. MİT will be separated into two as ‘domestic and foreign intelligence,’” he also said.
Noting that the changes would bring Turkey into line with the system in Britain, where foreign intelligence is handled by MI6 and domestic intelligence by MI5, Selvi said MİT would be directed toward foreign intelligence by being tied to the presidency.
“Broadly speaking, domestic intelligence will be left to the police and gendarmerie. The gendarmerie will provide intelligence in rural areas and the police will provide it in city centers,” he said.
The police and the gendarmerie will in future report to the Interior Ministry and not the military.
According to the report, a regulation passed under the current state of emergency should be made in order to tie MİT to the presidency rather than the prime minister.
A new unit called the “Coordination of Intelligence” responsible for the coordination between the two units will reportedly be formed under the presidency, which will also conduct intelligence analysis.
There has been huge pressure on MİT chief Hakan Fidan in the wake of the failed takeover, particularly following reports he found out about the planned putsch hours before the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) government was informed.
Selvi also mentioned Fidan’s master’s thesis in his column, saying it involved separating the intelligence services into domestic and foreign units.
“In both Britain and the United States, two different units are assigned to foreign and domestic intelligence. There’s no institution dedicated to just foreign intelligence in Turkey. Turkey doesn’t have a CIA. MİT is responsible for every field in Turkey. That creates a gap regarding the information obtained. If we had a separate agency taking care of foreign intelligence, we would be carrying out our foreign policy comfortably,” Fidan wrote in his master’s thesis, according to Selvi.
“In Turkey, all of the departments were gathered under MİT’s roof, but in developed countries, the domestic and foreign intelligence are handled separately,” Fidan also wrote.
Noting that authorities were searching for an answer as to which unit would handle international terrorist organizations, Selvi pointed to the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) formed in the U.S. after the Sept. 11 attacks as an example.
“The U.S. formed the NCTC after the trauma of Sept. 11. Will the struggle against international terror be carried out with a similar unit or MİT counterterror department?” he asked.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...port.aspx?pageID=238&nID=102389&NewsCatID=341
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Better late than never I guess
Turkey is planning to restructure its National Intelligence Service (MİT) after the failed July 15 coup attempt, amid criticisms against its shortcomings during the failed takeover, according to a report.
The move will involve splitting MİT so that foreign espionage and domestic counter-intelligence work are handled by different entities.
“The idea of bringing MİT and the General Staff under the control of the presidency is not new. But the coup attempt made the restructuring of the TSK [Turkish Armed Forces] and the intelligence inevitable,” wrote Hürriyet daily columnist Abdulkadir Selvi on July 2, adding that President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan had signaled the changes before in a meeting on May 5.
“After the cabinet meeting on July 1, Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmuş announced that restructuring would be carried out in intelligence. MİT will be separated into two as ‘domestic and foreign intelligence,’” he also said.
Noting that the changes would bring Turkey into line with the system in Britain, where foreign intelligence is handled by MI6 and domestic intelligence by MI5, Selvi said MİT would be directed toward foreign intelligence by being tied to the presidency.
“Broadly speaking, domestic intelligence will be left to the police and gendarmerie. The gendarmerie will provide intelligence in rural areas and the police will provide it in city centers,” he said.
The police and the gendarmerie will in future report to the Interior Ministry and not the military.
According to the report, a regulation passed under the current state of emergency should be made in order to tie MİT to the presidency rather than the prime minister.
A new unit called the “Coordination of Intelligence” responsible for the coordination between the two units will reportedly be formed under the presidency, which will also conduct intelligence analysis.
There has been huge pressure on MİT chief Hakan Fidan in the wake of the failed takeover, particularly following reports he found out about the planned putsch hours before the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) government was informed.
Selvi also mentioned Fidan’s master’s thesis in his column, saying it involved separating the intelligence services into domestic and foreign units.
“In both Britain and the United States, two different units are assigned to foreign and domestic intelligence. There’s no institution dedicated to just foreign intelligence in Turkey. Turkey doesn’t have a CIA. MİT is responsible for every field in Turkey. That creates a gap regarding the information obtained. If we had a separate agency taking care of foreign intelligence, we would be carrying out our foreign policy comfortably,” Fidan wrote in his master’s thesis, according to Selvi.
“In Turkey, all of the departments were gathered under MİT’s roof, but in developed countries, the domestic and foreign intelligence are handled separately,” Fidan also wrote.
Noting that authorities were searching for an answer as to which unit would handle international terrorist organizations, Selvi pointed to the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) formed in the U.S. after the Sept. 11 attacks as an example.
“The U.S. formed the NCTC after the trauma of Sept. 11. Will the struggle against international terror be carried out with a similar unit or MİT counterterror department?” he asked.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...port.aspx?pageID=238&nID=102389&NewsCatID=341
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Better late than never I guess
OguzSenturk
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Turks, the secularists/Kemalists, I am talking to you here. What now?
Most of the Kemalists and Secularists are also Muslims. Btw Kemalists don't care what Pakistanis believe. A pakistani citizen could be Atheist, or Christian, or Buddhist, or Muslim, or Satanists, etc. It will not make difference for us. Pakistanis will still be our brothers, we dont care your belief. Because it is not our business, it is the business between Allah and you.
Deliorman
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Hope things that happened on 15th of July will be a wake up call for all of us, for those who govern this country, for those who work for it. Hope that after that we can reorganize ourselves the best way possible, especially in the security, military, economical, educational and technological fields. We should try to be self sufficient on every field possible. We should be as effective, productive, hardworking and united as possible... we should go hard. Times has come for our new war of independence as you see how our enemies are trying to destroy us from within with their puppets inside of Turkey.
We will either be destroyed or come out stronger out of this- it's our choice and every Turk should work for that to be achieved. Hope more Turks understand that and remember that we are Turks because we are independent, strong and never giving up. Biz bitti demeden bitmez!
We will either be destroyed or come out stronger out of this- it's our choice and every Turk should work for that to be achieved. Hope more Turks understand that and remember that we are Turks because we are independent, strong and never giving up. Biz bitti demeden bitmez!
But where are the vids of 2.5 million Syrians arriving in Saudi, where are the vids of them walking out of airplanes/buses ??
Or is it that the Gulf states are that humble that they intentionally refuse to share such video content to the world. When they send aid they make sure their flag/emblem is on every packet and they surely won't miss broadcasting it to the world. Would they miss broadcasting 2.5 million Syrian refugees in their country? I doubt it. I guess it's fake then?
xenon54 out
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We will make our own union, with blackjack and hookers.Turks, the secularists/Kemalists, I am talking to you here.
What now?
Too many people dont get this unfortunately.
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