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Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

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Bulgaria is in the EU since 2007 and is a majority Christian country with around 15% Muslims in it (Mostly Turks- around 700k and some smaller groups of Muslim Gypsies, Pomaks and Arabs who came in Bulgaria in the last decades. After 45 years of communism people in the country are not really religious though and there is hardly any tensions between regular people.

Bosnia and Herzegovina is not in the EU and it is a country where half of the population is Bosniak with 52% who are Muslim, Serbs- 31% who are Orthodox Christian and Croats who are 15% of the population and are Catholic. The rest are a small minorities of Albanians, Turks, Gypsies, Montenegrins and others. After the Yugoslav wars and all the ethnic clashes and killings they all hate each other. There is even cities which are divided in two and where people from the other ethnicity can't go because it's dangerous. There is still some UN Peace keeping units in the country and it is hardly a functioning country with tensions being high and the Serbian part looking for independence.

Turkey on the other hand is too big to be part of the EU. Nobody needs a new country which will instantly become a leader in the Union with it's demographics because the bigger the country is, the bigger it's influence in the EU Parliament and Institutions become. Add the enormous Turkish Diaspora already living in the EU (numbers around 4 million+ in Germany, from 800k to 1 million in France, from 400-500k in the Netherlands, around 500k in the UK, between 350 to 500k in Austria, between 200 and 300k in Belgium, around 200k in Greece, 300k in the Scandinavian countries, Plus all smaller Turkish communities in Romania, Italy, Spain and other countries in the EU. I didn't add the number of Turks from Bulgaria as you can see it above) and you will further see how big Turkish influence over the union can become. The EU and it's leaders need smaller countries that can become a better supply of a cheap workforce for their economies, a market for their products. For smaller and poorer countries the EU is a good thing as it provides an easy option to go work abroad without any restrictions, it also provides funds to build infrastructure subsidize the agriculture and other sectors of the economy. If Turkey entered the Union with the pace building is going on, with the massive agriculture it already has the Union could go broke. :D
Sorry typo..I wanted to say Albania... you say Bulgaria is not Muslim majority country so the three Muslim majority countries are Turkey and Bosnia and Albania in Europe but none of them is part of EU.

By the way all that Turkish diaspora has no representatives of theirs in EU so it does not make any difference.
 
http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/st...aengnis-sagen-junge-akademiker-a-1104462.html

look at them.. I'll translate the caption for you

"This Country is a Prision"

ten thousands of officials, teachers and sciuentists have been detained or suspended.. schools and universities have been closed.. five jung turks are talking abot their plans for the future..

brain farter like burak sayin , eylül aslan the show it as if you cannot go outside without getting beaten up from turks :D
 
look , whats wrong with you.. first you talk about shia, than you talk about iran.. but you cannot see what I tried to present you.. there is no shia problem in turkey because there are not many shia in turkey.. and iran is a threat to the whole region.. why? because they are planted there for this reasons..

Just a small exmaple for you here:

The poison of sectarian hatred is spreading to Turkey from Syria as a result of the Turkish government giving full support to militant Sunni Muslims in the Syrian civil war.

The Alevi, a long-persecuted Shia sect to which 10-20 million Turks belong, say they feel menaced by the government’s pro-Sunni stance in the Shia-Sunni struggle that is taking place across the Muslim world.

Nevzat Altun, an Alevi leader in the Gazi quarter in Istanbul, says: “People here are scared that if those who support sharia come to power in Syria, the same thing could happen in Turkey.” He says that the Alevi of Turkey feel sympathy for the Syrian Alawites, both communities holding similar, though distinct, Shia beliefs and the Alevi oppose Turkey’s support for rebels fighting to overthrow Syria’s Alawite-dominated government.

Sectarian faultlines between the Sunni majority and the Alevi, Turkey’s largest religious minority, have always existed but are becoming deeper, more embittered and openly expressed. Atilla Yeshilada, a political and economic commentator, says that “anything [Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip] Erdogan says against the Alawites of Syria is full of sectarian innuendoes for the Alevi”.

Alawites who have fled to Turkey to escape the violence in Syria often find they are little safer after they have crossed the Turkish border. They say they dare not enter government-organised refugee camps because they are frightened of being attacked by the rebel Free Syrian Army as soon as it is discovered they are not Sunni.

Some Alawites have found their way to Istanbul where they are being looked after by the Alevi community. “A month ago we found Alawites wandering the streets of Istanbul and sleeping in parks where they earned a little money selling water and paper bags,” says Zaynal Odabashi, the head of the Pir Sultan Abdal Alevi cultural and religious centre in Gazi district where 180,000 out of a population of 520,000 are Alevi. He says that “we decided to take them in though the governor of Istanbul told us not to”, explaining that some 40 Syrian Alawite refugees are living in large tents at his centre alone and another 400 have been found places to sleep in houses nearby. The three million Syrian Arab Alawites may differ in religious practices from the Turkish Alevi, but they both follow core Shia beliefs such as reverence for the Twelve Imams. They both feel threatened by Sunni militants and know they are easily identifiable as even the poorest house has pictures of the Shia saints on the walls.

“They consider us as non-believers,” says Mr Odabashi, adding: “Of course, our people feel sympathy for the Alawites and we are against Turkey’s involvement in the war in Syria.”

Alawite refugees fed and housed by the Alevi tell grim tales of torture, disappearances and death. On a mat outside a big tent at the Pir Sultan centre lay an elderly looking man who said he is a Turkoman Alawite from Damascus whose district had been captured by the Free Syrian Army that held him and his 12-year-old daughter for up to 27 days.

His frightened eyes darted nervously around as he said his name was Ali Jabar and he was not sure of some details of what had happened to him because he had been blindfolded all the time he was held. His captivity began when there was a ring at his door at midnight and a voice said a neighbour needed to see him, but when he opened the door a man hit him on the head with his gun butt.

He was blindfolded by his captors whom he identified as the Free Syrian Army. They asked him if he believed in Bashar al-Assad and demanded he curse Imam Ali, but he had said: “No, not even if you cut my throat.”

They whipped him and set fire to a plastic bag so molten plastic dripped on to to his back. He rolled up his shirt to reveal half-healed whip marks and burns and took off his shoes to show where several of his toenails had been ripped out with pliers. He expected to be killed, but instead the men who held him threw him out of a car on a country road where he was found by a shepherd. He does not know what has happened to his daughter.

Ali Jabar later met other Alawite Turkomans who had fled from Aleppo and were sleeping in parks in Damascus. They managed to secure enough money to take 42 of them to Turkey in a bus, but they thought it was too dangerous for them to enter Turkish refugee camps. They finally reached Istanbul where they did not know where to go until the Alevi of Gazi offered to help them. Turkish government supporters deny or play down the connection between the Alevi and the Alawites but there is a common bond as both feel endangered by growing Sunni hostility to all Shia sects, regardless of their precise religious beliefs. Dogan Bermek, the president of the Alevi Foundation, a lobbying group mostly made up of better-off Alevi, asserts: “In Syria and in Turkey we are all the same Alevi. The differences between us are only regional because we have developed in different regions without contacts. We are on the same road though it has a thousand paths.”



How great is the danger of Sunni-Shia hostilities that have torn apart Iraq, Syria and Bahrain in the last decade erupting in Turkey? There are marked differences in religious observances between the Sunni majority and the Alevi who do not use mosques, but worship in some 3,000 prayer houses where men and women dance and sing during services. As a large Shia minority under the Ottoman Empire, the Alevi were persecuted and massacred as dissidents and potential sympathisers with the rival Shia Safavid empire in Iran. Oppression of the Alevi was much like that of Roman Catholics in Ireland by Britain from the 16th century on and it continued after the foundation of the modern Turkish state, with at least 8,000 Alevi Kurds of Dersim in the south-east being slaughtered in the late 1930s.

The Alevis became the bedrock of opposition movements in Turkey and make up much of the membership of leftist parties. In 1993 their spiritual leaders, intellectuals and artists held a festival in the eastern city of Sivas to celebrate a 15th-century poet. Trapped in a hotel by a mob of thousands of Sunnis protesting, among other things, at the presence of the Turkish translator of Salman Rushdie, some 35 people were burned to death without the police intervening.

Three years later there was an assault on Alevis by the police, killing 20 people in the same Gazi quarter where Syrian Alawites are now taking refuge.

Since Erdogan won his first general election in 2002 there has been less state violence. But during the protests that started in Gezi Park in Istanbul this summer, all five of the demonstrators killed across the country came from the Alevi community.

This is probably as much a token of their prominence in protests as it is of the police targeting them. It is also a sign that Alevi anger is growing because of memories of past violence against them; discrimination which turned them into second-class citizens and lack of state recognition or support for their religion.

I attended a meeting in an Alevi prayer house called a Cem in Umraniye district on the Asian side of Istanbul, where Alevi activists were setting up an organisation to fight for their rights. Complaints about discrimination abounded: an attempt to set up a joint Sunni mosque and Alevi prayer hall in Ankara was condemned as an attempt to assimilate them and as unworkable because the Alevi would be singing when the Sunni were praying. A delegate said Alevi did not fast at Ramadan but at another time of year, making cohabitation in the same building difficult. There was a lack of state education about Alevi beliefs and resentment at Sunni slanders about their religion.

“The government doesn’t treat us as human beings,” said one delegate. “We pay taxes but we don’t get anything back.”

Resentful though the Alevi are at their treatment, they are at least dealing with a powerful government capable of meeting many of their demands. Mr Erdogan has no difficulty in apologising for events like the Dersim massacres carried out on behalf of a secular authoritarian state in the past. The Alevi do not forget past persecution, objecting to the government’s intention to name the third Bosphorus bridge after Selim the Grim, an Ottoman Sultan of the early 16th century regarded as an ogre by the Alevi, whom he slaughtered by the thousand. Not all the reasons are negative for the greater Alevi sense of identity and willingness to be more vocal in demanding their rights: Turkish security forces under Mr Erdogan are less violent than they used to be and protesters are less likely to be imprisoned or harassed by the state.

But the Sunni-Shia civil wars exploding in Syria and Iraq are deepening sectarian differences among the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world.

Turkey is no exception to this trend, has a large Shia minority and is close to the heart of the turmoil. There is already talk of the “Pakistanisation” of Turkish provinces like Hatay and Mardin, which are used by al-Qa’ida-linked groups fighting in Syria as their rear bases. Turkey’s open border policy for rebels means that the Syrian war is spilling across the frontier.

Successful though Turkey has been politically and economically in the past decade, the long battle for power between the AK party and an authoritarian, secular state has created lasting divisions in society. The rising political temperature in Turkey and the region makes rising sectarian differences ever more explosive.
 
Albania will sooner or later be a part of the Union, so are Kosovo and Bosnia where the only problem will be if some of the current members is not against it for some reason such as a territorial dispute. Especially considering Kosovo is not recognized by all member states and that Bosnia is still living in with the memories of the war. Western Balkans are supposed to be the next EU members.

Yet again they are just a bunch of small countries which will be just another puppet states for those who rule the Union.
 
http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/st...aengnis-sagen-junge-akademiker-a-1104462.html

look at them.. I'll translate the caption for you

"This Country is a Prision"

ten thousands of officials, teachers and sciuentists have been detained or suspended.. schools and universities have been closed.. five jung turks are talking abot their plans for the future..

brain farter like burak sayin , eylül aslan the show it as if you cannot go outside without getting beaten up from turks :D
Ayyyy yerim sizleri...siktirin gidin mk:lol::wave:
 
Turkey is in no position to become a European Union member any time soon and all negotiations for it to join will stop immediately if it reintroduces the death penalty, EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said on July 25.

Turkish authorities have suspended, detained or placed under investigation thousands of soldiers, police, judges, teachers, civil servants and others since the July 15 failed military coup.

"I believe that Turkey, in its current state, is not in a position to become a member any time soon and not even over a longer period," Juncker said on French television France 2.

He said that a country that included the death penalty in its legislative arsenal had no place in the European Union.

July/25/2016
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...cker.aspx?pageID=238&nID=102036&NewsCatID=351
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Finally the dogs bark their true thoughts. The government should respond in kind an immediately suspend and shelve the so called ''accession process''.
No worry brother, soon EU member themselves will leave EU. So its better to be at a distance from a falling wall.
 
Greens never had any contribution to the society other than their zero emission world utopia, anyone knowing those people will know they arent capable of doing politics, those are the kind of people who refuse to work since they are special snowflakes against ''the system'', paying double the price for food because its labled bio, oh and they are vegans which is hindering them from thinking rationally. :D

And not to forget, many of them study 15 years in useless things such as gender studies or art and never seen a pay check in their life despite being 35+.

*end of rant*
 
Greens never had any contribution to the society other than their zero emission world utopia, anyone knowing those people will know they arent capable of doing politics, those are the kind of people who refuse to work since they are special snowflakes against ''the system'', paying double the price for food because its labled bio, oh and they are vegans which is hindering them from thinking rationally. :D

And not to forget, many of them study 15 years in useless things such as gender studies or art and never seen a pay check in their life despite being 35+.

*end of rant*

I was about to go full rant but you did it for me :)
 
By supporting terrorists, you will threaten Turks. That simple. That's what you Americans do, are you going to deny that , huh?

America =! NATO. They have their own headquarters and their own resources. The resources of the United States are not necessarily at the disposal of NATO command.

Also how does supporting terrorists prevent Turkey from leaving NATO. Explain.

If Erdogan said tomorrow that he was going to unilaterally pull Turkey out of NATO, how does terrorism stop it?

How does threatening the Turks stop them from leaving NATO? Why would NATO want a member that has to be threatened to stay in the first place? It would be a danger to the organization, much more so than a hostile Turkey outside the alliance would be.

You seem to think Turkey is a weak country. Erdogan is a strongman (and in my opinion a potential dictator who increasingly seems like a threat to the rule of law in Turkey) and Turkey's military is one of the more powerful in the region.

Even assuming using terrorism as a threat was an option it would be a bad tactic in Turkey's case because the risk is not worth the small chance of success for the US.
 
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Thousands of Turkey coup prisoners 'raped, starved and hogtied'
  • 17:00, 24 JUL 2016
  • UPDATED 07:16, 25 JUL 2016
  • BY CHRIS HUGHES
Amnesty International says it has ‘credible evidence’ Turkish police are holding detainees, denying them food, water and medical treatment and in the worst cases some have been subjected to severe beatings and torture
Twitter
Turkish-soldiers.jpg

Captured Turkish soldiers
Turkish troops imprisoned after the failed military coup are being raped, starved and left without water for days, it is claimed.

Many of the 10,000 detainees are locked up in horses’ stables and sports halls - some hogtied in horrific stress positions, according to human rights campaigners.

Amnesty International has called for immediate access to prisoners after the coup a week ago which sparked a brutal crackdown and a three-month state of emergency.

More than 200 died in the uprising which aimed to topple dictatorial President Recep Erdogan - and 1,500 were injured.

Amnesty says it has ‘credible evidence’ Turkish police are holding detainees in stress positions for up to 48 hours, denying them food, water and medical treatment and in the worst cases some have been subjected to severe beatings and torture, including rape.

Amnesty International says it has ‘credible evidence’ Turkish police are holding detainees, denying them food, water and medical treatment and in the worst cases some have been subjected to severe beatings and torture.

REUTERS/Umit Bektas
Turkish-President-Tayyip-Erdogan.jpg

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan
John Dalhuisen, Amnesty International’s Europe director, said: “Reports of abuse including beatings and rape in detention are extremely alarming, especially given the scale of detentions that we have seen in the past week.


“Despite chilling images and videos of torture that have been widely broadcast across the country, the government has remained conspicuously silent on the abuse. “

Amnesty spoke to lawyers, doctors and a person on duty in a detention facility about the conditions in which detainees were being held.

They heard alarming accounts of torture and other ill-treatment of detainees, particularly at the Ankara Police Headquarters sports hall, Ankara Başkent sports hall and the riding club stables there.

Two lawyers in Ankara working on behalf of detainees told Amnesty International that detainees said they witnessed senior military officers in detention being raped with a truncheon or finger by police officers.

A person on duty at the Ankara Police Headquarters sports hall saw a detainee with severe wounds consistent with having been beaten, including a large swelling on his head.

The detainee could not stand up or focus his eyes and he eventually lost consciousness.

While in some cases detainees were afforded limited medical assistance, police refused to allow this detainee essential medical treatment despite his severe injuries.

The interviewee heard one police doctor on duty say: “Let him die. We will say he came to us dead.”

The same interviewee said 650-800 soldiers were being held in the Ankara police headquarters sports hall - 300 of them with signs of having been beaten.


Some detainees had visible bruises, cuts, or broken bones.

Around 40 were so badly injured they could not walk.

Two were unable to stand.

One woman who was also detained in a separate facility there had bruising on her face and torso.

[videos in original]
 
NATO won't fall apart if Turkey decides leave, argument itself is silly.

Yup.

NATO will lose it's second biggest army, it's southern-flank will be exposed, will lose it's strategic bases which are neighboring Black Sea and ME and will be risking Turkey to get close with Russia. But other than that NATO will continue to operate.

Somewhat disagreed, the Southern flank wouldn't be exposed, it would just be pushed back to greece. The straits are definitely easier to block down, but from Greece NATO could still contain Russian naval power in the mediterranean in a hot conflict..

countries_europe_map.jpg


NATO would lose its second biggest army and operations in the Black sea would take a hit in the short term, but it wouldn't be fatal, and could be recovered from in a few decades with additional investment in other more NATO friendly states bordering the black sea.

I'm skeptical of the idea of Turkey getting close to Russia . Turkey has had bad relations with Russia since the Ottoman days, Geopolitically the 2 are a threat to each other, because Turkey views itself as a regional power and it will fight for a sphere of influence, which will clash with Russia's as they currently do in Syria, and Turkish support for Muslims in the Caucasus would also inflame tensions, so I can't see the two making any sort of long term alliance. Exit from NATO would still hurt Turkey's military in the medium term though with its reliance on Western arms. Those take decades to replace. Not to mention that Turkey now doesn't just face potentially the Russians, but potentially NATO and the territorial dispute with Greece goes to a whole other level when Greece has NATO support and Turkey doesn't. The Russians wouldn't back Turkey for it.

Turkey isn't weak that's for sure but its still not a match compared to the US, let alone NATO.


That said, i don't think Turkey will leave NATO. However relations with US will be seriously strained if US continues to back up Gülenist terrorists.
That will be an...interesting... situation to balance, but I agree geopolitically the benefits of NATO for Turkey outweigh the current tensions imo, even if Gulen is not extradited to Turkey. Erdogan is cleaning house regardless, and however anyone feels about the method, he is doing so, so it's symbolic only to get Gulen. I doubt Gulen would have any influence in Turkey if he had it before. If there was a competition between Gulen and Erdogan for control of Turkey, Erdogan won.

The hard benefits of NATO and the influence that gives Turkey in its surroundings (both the black sea and Syria) outweigh the symbolic benefits of extraditing Gulen.
 
Turkey has expressed its satisfaction with the unconditional support Russian President Vladimir Putin lent to the Turkish government in the wake of the July 15 failed coup attempt and vowed to speedily improve bilateral ties with Moscow after an eight-month rift.

“We thank the Russian authorities, particularly President Putin. We have received unconditional support from Russia, unlike other countries,” Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said on Habertürk TV on July 25. “This is our expectation from our other friends, as well,” he added.

Turkey and Russia ended eight months of tension in late June after Turkish PresidentRecep Tayyip Erdoğan wrote a letter to his counterpart to express his deep sorrow over the shooting down of a Russian warplane along the Syrian border on Nov. 24, 2015.Russia was one of the first countries to condemn the failed coup attempt on July 15 and express its support to the democratically elected Turkish government.

Erdoğan and Putin are expected to come together in Moscow in mid-August to revive ties, Çavuşoğlu said, recalling Turkey’s two ministers responsible for the economy would hold preparatory talks with their counterparts in Russia on July 26. Deputy Prime Minister Nurettin Canikli and Economy Minister Nihat Zeybekçi were scheduled to depart to Russia late July 25 from Ankara.

Russia recently officially removed all economic and touristic sanctions which had been put against Turkey in the aftermath of the Nov. 24, 2015, incident.

The ministers will discuss the agenda of the Erdoğan-Putin summit, Çavuşoğlu said, adding the two countries were also focused on the revival of military and intelligence mechanisms to increase the cooperation in Syria.

‘Gülenists can stage a coup in Kyrgyzstan’

Çavuşoğlu also reiterated his urging to the government of Kyrgyzstan, as he described the country as “the base of the Gülenist organization in Central Asia.”

“They have infiltrated the Kyrgyz administration as well. They can stage a coup there,” Çavuşoğlu said, adding that Kyrgyzstan was under a serious threat.

Çavuşoğlu said he informed his Kyrgyz counterpart about the members of this organization in the Central Asian country and gave him an updated list of Gülenists.

July/25/2016

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...pt--.aspx?pageID=238&nID=102062&NewsCatID=510
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This should be interesting
 
‘Gülenists can stage a coup in Kyrgyzstan’

Çavuşoğlu also reiterated his urging to the government of Kyrgyzstan, as he described the country as “the base of the Gülenist organization in Central Asia.”

“They have infiltrated the Kyrgyz administration as well. They can stage a coup there,” Çavuşoğlu said, adding that Kyrgyzstan was under a serious threat.

Çavuşoğlu said he informed his Kyrgyz counterpart about the members of this organization in the Central Asian country and gave him an updated list of Gülenists.
given that central Asian -stans are pro-russian ....... i think we will see such scenarios in Central asia ......... i wish well to Putin
 

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