Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

[CrimsonFury]

Yeah.A country in medieval times can't win against someone 50 times their size,not forever.They fought as long as they could,revolted from time to time but there was no winning.....not at those numbers.Nothing amusing.....reality.

Dont brush off the Ottomans as if they were a huge invading horde of barbarians (I know this hard for you, knowing you had to kiss their feet for couple of hundred years) BUT they managed an empire that lasted nearly a thousand years...simply having numerical superiority is not enough.

I can understand your anger but anger sometimes does not let a person make better choices. Few wrong steps taken in rage today might turn out bad for Turkey in the long run. Take a step back and think with a cool head. This is a monumental moment in Turkish modern history. Turkish nation can take pride that they refused to submit to illegal hijacking of their mandate. This however does not change the fact that Turkish blood was spilled by the Turks on Turkish soil! As a Pakistani, I watched in horror as Turks pointed guns at each other. It is neither my place to take sides in Turkish internal affairs nor will I. It is for the Turkish people to decide what is best for them and I must stand behind their decision. I will however take liberty to advise you where I can.

A crime of grave nature has been committed by coup plotters and they must face justice for what they have done. But a wise Turk will ask himself how did we reach at a point where some defenders of the nation pointed their guns at the citizens? How did enemies of Turkey find opportunities to poison the minds of those few this much? Is there something we the Turks, missing in grand scheme of things? Your enemies are clever. You should be too. They will not relent. Nor should you. And what better defence can you have than a united Turkish nation supporting a strong military which is loyal to Turkish people? More fights are coming your way. More conspiracies, more duplicity and more poison wrapped in sweets. There is no better way to break a nation than to create divisions in its society. Your priority should be to heal the divisions and reach out to each other despite your differences and disagreements.

If I ask you, are Turks proud of their military today? What would you answer? You people should be very very proud of your military because their majority sided with aspirations of the Turkish people. Let few criminals in military not define all of them. Love your brave soldiers and stand behind them. Make them proud of defending the nation's democracy because that's what majority of them did. Remember, your military stands between you and your enemies. Do not weaken them.

As far your foreign enemies, go slow and wisely. Do not do anything rash. Make effort to propagate your point of view in their populations. Make public any covert support they were extending. Squeeze them slow without making much noise. Keep focusing on your economy, education and technology development. Now is not the time to pick open fights. Just putting them on defensive would suffice. Keep your heads down and keep moving forward the way you were doing. Diversify your relationship and improve trade with important nations in region and world stage. If you stay focused, they can not succeed. It is time for great wisdom and cool heads, my friend. Emotions can not be more important than destiny of Turkish nation.

I love my military. However no one should get in the way of them getting punished. Just listening to the pricks from the West lecturing us on what we should do is annoying. But you are totally right in your post.

 

[flamer84]

Dont brush off the Ottomans as if they were a huge invading horde of barbarians (I know this hard for you, knowing you had to kiss their feet for couple of hundred years) BUT they managed an empire that lasted nearly a thousand years...simply having numerical superiority is not enough.


I love my military. However no one should get in the way of them getting punished. Just listening to the pricks from the West lecturing us on what we should do is annoying. But you are totally right in your post.

Well,they always had numbers against us,i'm not brushing anything.

 

[CrimsonFury]

Well,they always had numbers against us,i'm not brushing anything.

You are over simplifying the whole matter. Superior numbers are an advantage, yes they are, but if someone rules over you for centuries that means they are beyond you in other things and not only numbers. Turkey was invaded by forces not only overwhlemingly bigger but also better armed and yet we made them swim back home. Which brings us back to the main point: You are in no position to lecture us when it comes to intelligence or bravery. History clearly shows who has passed more tests successfully in these two areas

 

[Beny Karachun]

Even many of your rabbis say that zionazis are the 21st century replica of the Nazis.



The ones got lynched were the ones chose to fight and killed unarmed civilians before they got killed.

If they say Zionists are Nazis THEY ARE NOT OURS, If a Muslim says "All Muslims are terrorists" will I go to you and say "Even your Muslims say that Muslims are terrorists"?

 

[CrimsonFury]

If they say Zionists are Nazis THEY ARE NOT OURS, If a Muslim says "All Muslims are terrorists" will I go to you and say "Even your Muslims say that Muslims are terrorists"?

zionists as nazis?? Are they not hell bent on slaughtering eachother?

 

[flamer84]

You are over simplifying the whole matter. Superior numbers are an advantage, yes they are, but if someone rules over you for centuries that means they are beyond you in other things and not only numbers. Turkey was invaded by forces not only overwhlemingly bigger but also better armed and yet we made them swim back home.

Not really.WW1 was a myth.....the only real armies you faced in your independence war was those of Greece,and Armenian insurectionists.The French,British only had advisors and didn't want to commit troops to another war.Gallipoli was a win but that was an expeditionary force far from home,the real war was in mainland Europe.In the 19th century Western European powers were the ones who saved the Ottomans from complete Russian annexation.In the First Balkan War you only kept your current territories in Europe because the Balkanite states fought amongst themselves after,to everyone's surprise,mopped the floor with you.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Unfortunately if Turkey goes the way its going where it looks like Erdogan is simply purging all

I find this ambivalence amusing. This reminds me the Islamist apologist get on with acts of terrorism. Are you a apologist for a illegal, extra-constitutional murderous rampage? And there are no two ways about this. You either support the elective process (note I don't say Erdogan) or support guns, tanks and helicopters offering salvation with cannon fire?

Would you agree with that in Washington if elements of 101st Division went on the rampage in the Capitol? Or some rogue Marines blocked Golden Gate bridge with Abram tanks?

 

[CrimsonFury]

Not really.WW1 was a myth.....the only real armies you faced in your independence war was those of Greece,and Armenian insurectionists.The French,British only had advisors and didn't want to commit troops to another war.Gallipoli was a win but that was an expeditionary force far from home,the real war was in mainland Europe.In the 19th century Western European powers were the ones who saved the Ottomans from complete Russian annexation.In the First Balkan War you only kept your current territories in Europe because the Balkanite states fought amongst themselves after,to everyone's surprise,mopped the floor with you.

I will take a few defeats over centuries long of grovellling and spine bending thank you. Lets see what happens to all of you Balkans when the EU collapses...Greece will seem like a picnic.

 

[flamer84]

I will take a few defeats over centuries long of grovellling and spine bending thank you. Lets see what happens to all of you Balkans when the EU collapses...Greece will seem like a picnic.

Nothing will happen and don't give us lecture on economy when you're under ex commie Poland in GDP per capita after being in the Western camp in the Cold War.With what Edogan is doing,be worried about you and not us.

 

[anon45]

I find this ambivalence amusing. This reminds me the Islamist apologist get on with acts of terrorism. Are you a apologist for a illegal, extra-constitutional murderous rampage? And there are no two ways about this. You either support the elective process (note I don't say Erdogan) or support guns, tanks and helicopters offering salvation with cannon fire?

Would you agree with that in Washington if elements of 101st Division went on the rampage in the Capitol? Or some rogue Marines blocked Golden Gate bridge with Abram tanks?

It depends on circumstance. If the democratic process is in danger of being destroyed, preventative action is warranted. Given Turkey's history and cultural views of the military a military involvement in a coup would have different implications than if the same thing happened in the US.

Basically the 2 scenarios cannot be compared. That said, if it looked like a president was going to declare himself/herself dictator and/or above the constitution, I would support military intervention if the legal system was otherwise incapacitated.

Our military's duty is the defense our constitution from enemies foreign AND domestic.


Are you saying you don't find mass purging of legal figures judges prosecutors policemen etc , people who on the surface of it had nothing to do with the Military coup within like 48 hours of the coup more than a little bit concerning?

Do you really believe all those people had ties to this 'small, poorly organized' coup?

Its like at what, 10000 people now?

 

[CrimsonFury]

Nothing will happen and don't give us lecture on economy when you're under ex commie Poland in GDP per capita after being in the Western camp in the Cold War.With what Edogan is doing,be worried about you and not us.

lol if the EU was an objective institiution then we would have been in long ago and dominated all of you irrelevants in that sphere as well. But, it matters not, we will build on our own and god help you if you try to sabotage it.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Its not an either or thing. Are you saying you don't find mass purging of legal figures judges prosecutors policemen etc , people who on the surface of it had nothing to do with the Military coup within like 48 hours of the coup more than a little bit concerning?

Do you really believe all those people had ties to this 'small, poorly organized' coup?

Its like at what, 10000 people now?

I am not Turkish and neither do I live there thus I can't give a defintive answer to that. Do I think Erdogan or Turkey itself practices democracy to the standard that we enjoy in UK? No, I don't but then I don't think neither is US democracy as "mature" as what we have in UK. So yes there are concerns.

But and this is where the rub is. What are the alternative? This is not London your talking about. Are you suggesting because the Turks have imperfect (relatively speaking) democracy that the solution is to drive down Ataturk Avenue in Leopard Tanks?

Evrything in life is relative. In absolute terms what you say might carry some traction but in context you are wrong, very wrong.

 

[CrimsonFury]

I am not Turkish and neither do I live there thus I can't give a defintive answer to that. Do I think Erdogan or Turkey itself practices democracy to the standard that we enjoy in UK? No, I don't but then I don't think neither is US democracy as "mature" as what we have in UK. So yes there are concerns.

But and this is where the rub is. What are the alternative? This is not London your talking about. Are you suggesting because the Turks have imperfect (relatively speaking) democracy that the solution is to drive down Ataturk Avenue in Leopard Tanks?

Evrything in life is relative. In absolute terms what you might carry some traction but in context you are wrong, very wrong.

It is with the same ,obnoxious and retarded logic that the Western media is portraying the whole thing.

 

[flamer84]

lol if the EU was an objective institiution then we would have been in long ago and dominated all of you irrelevants in that sphere as well. But, it matters not, we will build on our own and god help you if you try to sabotage it.

Actually,only by looking at what happened in the last few days it is clear that you're not a country qualified to be part of the EU.

 

[anon45]

But and this is where the rub is. What are the alternative? This is not London your talking about. Are you suggesting because the Turks have imperfect (relatively speaking) democracy that the solution is to drive down Ataturk Avenue in Leopard Tanks?

Evrything in life is relative. In absolute terms what you might carry some traction but in context you are wrong, very wrong.

I don't know what better alternatives there are for Turkey, but the current mass purges of legal public servants are not it without public evidence of their involvement in the coup..