Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

[Mahmoud_EGY]

from what I see it is not over yet the chances for the coup to work is low but the situation is not yet under control

 

[anon45]

Europeans and Americans yapping about the possibility of a death penalty. Now we know that the death penalty is the way to go!

What? Why would we care we have the death penalty ourselves! (in some states)

 

[ashok321]

It would be a blessing for Turkey!

John Kerry says Turkey’s NATO membership could be in jeopardy

All public servants banned from leaving Turkey.

 

[T-Rex]

John Kerry says Turkey’s NATO membership could be in jeopardy

All public servants banned from leaving Turkey.

It's clear that these bastards were behind the coup or else they wouldn't be so desperate to save the plotters.

 

[anon45]

No doubt this was done by NATO members to fragment Turkey, a real knife in the Back. Respect to Turkish people they crushed the coup d'etat.

erm no, there is no benefit to NATO to do this. Erdogan was already pro-NATO and the possibility (and I stress its only a possibility) of an even more pro-West pro-NATO govt coming into power is not worth the risk of destabilizing a fairly important NATO ally.

It simply doesn't balance in a risk reward analysis.

Instead lets look at how quickly Erdogan responded in massive purges, its quite clear he had a list for some time and is now carrying it out.

If it wasn't a false flag coup directed by Erdogan himself then it was definitely one whose elements he was aware of and prepared for, and that's assuming all those arrested were involved in the coup!

I'm unconvinced that all the arrests were related to the coup, if so many thousands of people were actually involved the coup would have succeeded. He's actually purging the police now, and they were on his side!

This looks like Erdogan is taking the opportunity to purge all the opposition.

 

[flamer84]

erm no, there is no benefit to NATO to do this. Erdogan was already pro-NATO and the possibility (and I stress its only a possibility) of an even more pro-West pro-NATO govt coming into power is not worth the risk of destabilizing a fairly important NATO ally.

It simply doesn't balance in a risk reward analysis.

Instead lets look at how quickly Erdogan responded in massive purges, its quite clear he had a list for some time and is now carrying it out.

If it wasn't a false flag coup directed by Erdogan himself then it was definitely one whose elements he was aware of and prepared for, and that's assuming all those arrested were involved in the coup!

I'm unconvinced that all the arrests were related to the coup, if so many thousands of people were actually involved the coup would have succeeded. He's actually purging the police now, and they were on his side!

This looks like Erdogan is taking the opportunity to purge all the opposition.

Like Europe would want a Syria situation in a 80 million country neighbouring us.But many Turks are not very clever,expecially in PDF,they're just perpetual teens at puberty always chest thumping about their self perceived might.You can't really reason with these sheep,it's best only to laugh at them and ignore their rants.

 

[CrimsonFury]

What? Why would we care we have the death penalty ourselves! (in some states)

read the statements coming from the EU and US. EVen if you dont care your elected leaders care, and very much so.

 

[anon45]

It's clear that these bastards were behind the coup or else they wouldn't be so desperate to save the plotters.

Like Europe would want a Syria situation in a 80 million country neighbouring us.But many Turks are not very clever,expecially in PDF,they're just perpetual teens at puberty always chest thumping about their self perceived might.You can't really reason with these sheep,it's best only to laugh at them and ignore their rants.

Unfortunately if Turkey goes the way its going where it looks like Erdogan is simply purging all opposition and setting himself up as the new Sultan, then there is a real chance of being booted from NATO, no matter its strategic position.

pro-Erdogan anti-West Turks here (I don't think I've seen that many though, mostly just Pakistanis) will probably hold up a strong front and place all the blame on the West for this unfortunate news, but Turkey's geopolitical security will take a huge nosedive if that happens, and Turkey hasn't made any other friends to offset it. Neither Xi or Putin like Erdogan either for Turkey's role in Xinjiang and Syria....actually I'm not sure if anyone outside of Turkey likes Erdogan!

I should be fair here though, the most anti-West i've seen on the forum are not the Turks but the Pakistanis.

Hopefully Erdogan attempts some sort of reconciliation or meeting halfway, because I think if Erdogan leaves some room for hope that he is still interested in fulfilling the terms of NATO membership, the other members will try to keep at least the illusion of a democratic Turkey even if Erdogan in practice breaks the process similarly to Venezuela. Obviously it would be better if Turkey's democracy works in practice

read the statements coming from the EU and US. EVen if you dont care your elected leaders care, and very much so.

I'm not seeing any criticism of the return of a death penalty from US officials. Could you source?

Plenty about democratic principles, nothing about the death penalty in particular.

 

[CrimsonFury]

Like Europe would want a Syria situation in a 80 million country neighbouring us.But many Turks are not very clever,expecially in PDF,they're just perpetual teens at puberty always chest thumping about their self perceived might.You can't really reason with these sheep,it's best only to laugh at them and ignore their rants.

A Romanian lecturing Turks on intelligence and might. Remember the subjugation of your ancestors to us for a couple of centuries, and save yourself the embarrassment, eflak.

Unfortunately if Turkey goes the way its going where it looks like Erdogan is simply purging all opposition and setting himself up as the new Sultan, then there is a real chance of being booted from NATO, no matter its strategic position.

pro-Erdogan anti-West Turks here will probably hold up a strong front and place all the blame on the West for this unfortunate news, but Turkey's geopolitical security will take a huge nosedive if that happens, and Turkey hasn't made any other friends to offset it. Neither Xi or Putin like Erdogan either for Turkey's role in Xinjiang and Syria.

Hopefully Erdogan attempts some sort of reconciliation or meeting halfway, because I think if Erdogan leaves some room for hope that he is still interested in fulfilling the terms of NATO membership, the other members will try to keep at least the illusion of a democratic Turkey even if Erdogan in practice breaks the process similarly to Venezuela.



I'm not seeing any criticism of the return of a death penalty from US officials. Could you source?

Plenty about democratic principles, nothing about the death penalty in particular.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkeys-eu-talks-to-cease-if-death-penalty-reintroduced-1468838946
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...27ba8a-4850-11e6-8dac-0c6e4accc5b1_story.html

Kerry is a bit more restrained than that whore from the EU. But it boils down to the same thing: No death penalty, or else.

 

[anon45]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkeys-eu-talks-to-cease-if-death-penalty-reintroduced-1468838946
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...27ba8a-4850-11e6-8dac-0c6e4accc5b1_story.html

Kerry is a bit more restrained than that whore from the EU. But it boils down to the same thing: No death penalty, or else.

I'd take what hes saying at face value this time CrimsonFury, the EU abolished their death penalty but US states maintain it. There are probably concerns about the usage of the death penalty, such as against political prisoners, but the existence of the death penalty itself is not the issue.

For example Japan has the death penalty too, that does not affect our relations with it.

 

[flamer84]

A Romanian lecturing Turks on intelligence and might. Remember the subjugation of your ancestors to us for a couple of decades, and save yourself the embarrassment, eflak.

Overwhelming by sheer numbers is not outsmarting.Anyway,the West keeps Russia from disintegrating you for some 200 years now, so good luck leaving NATO and befriending Putin.

 

[CrimsonFury]

Overwhelming by sheer numbers is not outsmarting.

Really? That is your excuse for centuries of subjugation? Amusing to say the least!

 

[flamer84]

Really? That is your excuse for centuries of subjugation? Amusing to say the least!

Yeah.A country in medieval times can't win against someone 50 times their size,not forever.They fought as long as they could,revolted from time to time but there was no winning.....not at those numbers.Nothing amusing.....reality.

 

[CrimsonFury]

I'd take what hes saying at face value this time CrimsonFury, the EU abolished their death penalty but US states maintain it. There are probably concerns about the usage of the death penalty, such as against political prisoners, but the existence of the death penalty itself is not the issue.

For example Japan has the death penalty too, that does not affect our relations with it.

Countries do not treat their relations with every country the same. Japan might invoke a different reatcion than Turkey. We will see how sincere the US is when the Turkish government puts forward its official extradition request. If they act as Kerry said they will, then I will take what he says at face value.

 

[Paksanity]

Yes we dont need more enemies. But look at what they are saying and doing. THEY WANT US AS THEIR ENEMY OR AS THEIR DOGS. THEY DO NOT RESPECT US AND THEY WILL TRY THEIR BEST TO DENY EQUALITY BETWEEN US.It is the glaring truth. I hope the government and every Turk understands that they will never and never once thought about admitting us to the EU and other Western clubs. **** 'em, everything will be up to scrutiny and restructuring.

I can understand your anger but anger sometimes does not let a person make better choices. Few wrong steps taken in rage today might turn out bad for Turkey in the long run. Take a step back and think with a cool head. This is a monumental moment in Turkish modern history. Turkish nation can take pride that they refused to submit to illegal hijacking of their mandate. This however does not change the fact that Turkish blood was spilled by the Turks on Turkish soil! As a Pakistani, I watched in horror as Turks pointed guns at each other. It is neither my place to take sides in Turkish internal affairs nor will I. It is for the Turkish people to decide what is best for them and I must stand behind their decision. I will however take liberty to advise you where I can.

A crime of grave nature has been committed by coup plotters and they must face justice for what they have done. But a wise Turk will ask himself how did we reach at a point where some defenders of the nation pointed their guns at the citizens? How did enemies of Turkey find opportunities to poison the minds of those few this much? Is there something we the Turks, missing in grand scheme of things? Your enemies are clever. You should be too. They will not relent. Nor should you. And what better defence can you have than a united Turkish nation supporting a strong military which is loyal to Turkish people? More fights are coming your way. More conspiracies, more duplicity and more poison wrapped in sweets. There is no better way to break a nation than to create divisions in its society. Your priority should be to heal the divisions and reach out to each other despite your differences and disagreements.

If I ask you, are Turks proud of their military today? What would you answer? You people should be very very proud of your military because their majority sided with aspirations of the Turkish people. Let few criminals in military not define all of them. Love your brave soldiers and stand behind them. Make them proud of defending the nation's democracy because that's what majority of them did. Remember, your military stands between you and your enemies. Do not weaken them.

As far your foreign enemies, go slow and wisely. Do not do anything rash. Make effort to propagate your point of view in their populations. Make public any covert support they were extending. Squeeze them slow without making much noise. Keep focusing on your economy, education and technology development. Now is not the time to pick open fights. Just putting them on defensive would suffice. Keep your heads down and keep moving forward the way you were doing. Diversify your relationship and improve trade with important nations in region and world stage. If you stay focused, they can not succeed. It is time for great wisdom and cool heads, my friend. Emotions can not be more important than destiny of Turkish nation.