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Turkish Peace Operations in Syria (Operation Olive Branch) Updates & Discussions

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HannibalBarca said:
I'm still confused about this "Training"... Why the Us need to Train another NATO member for "Patrol"...
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As you know when a soldier or unit from a NATO country is in training the most of the tactical training is given in a NATO standard but every army have its different approach. The US and Turkish troops will train together in order to ensure the highest levels of interoperability from the troops from both countries in order to minimize the lack of understanding and coordination between units on tactical level.
 
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kartal1 said:
As you know when a soldier or unit from a NATO country is in training the most of the tactical training is given in a NATO standard but every army have its different approach. The US and Turkish troops will train together in order to ensure the highest levels of interoperability from the troops from both countries in order to minimize the lack of understanding and coordination between units on tactical level.
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They didn't need to train French/Italian troops for their side... Both TR and US can easily communicate or ensure a good lvl of coordination, that's why their is a "NATO" standard.
I see it mostly as a way to control the Timing of such troops. Therefore pushing deployment as far as possible and if someone ask later on "why TR isn't in already" they will just give the perfect answer..."We didn't finish training"

Let's see how long that training will last... For only few hundreds of soldiers who are already NATO standard ready and Already cooperated with US forces in the past...
 
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HannibalBarca said:
They didn't need to train French/Italian troops for their side... Both TR and US can easily communicate or ensure a good lvl of coordination, that's why their is a "NATO" standard.
I see it mostly as a way to control the Timing of such troops. Therefore pushing deployment as far as possible and if someone ask later on "why TR isn't in already" they will just give the perfect answer..."We didn't finish training"

Let's see how long that training will last... For only few hundreds of soldiers who are already NATO standard ready and Already cooperated with US forces in the past...
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The French and Italian troops there are much easier to work with. They get into the hot zone and nobody cares if anybody will get shot while the situation with US and Turkish troops is very different because in both zones there is danger for the soldiers. While the French and Italian troops had the chance to get along with the US troops without any negative circumstances the Turkish and US troops have to get along in Turkey. If we are talking about SOF units its easier because the units know each other and actually had a lot of joint exercises in which different scenarios are being worked. Joint protocols and procedures must be made because the patrols will be conducted in a zone in which there are forces which want both of the units there dead. They must be ready to conduct patrols, security and combat operations together. Where do you suggest them work together? In Kobani, Al Bab, Afrin, Manbij, Idlib? Of course they will get along in Turkey.
 
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kartal1 said:
The French and Italian troops there are much easier to work with. They get into the hot zone and nobody cares if anybody will get shot while the situation with US and Turkish troops is very different because in both zones there is danger for the soldiers. While the French and Italian troops had the chance to get along with the US troops without any negative circumstances the Turkish and US troops have to get along in Turkey. If we are talking about SOF units its easier because the units know each other and actually had a lot of joint exercises in which different scenarios are being worked. Joint protocols and procedures must be made because the patrols will be conducted in a zone in which there are forces which want both of the units there dead. They must be ready to conduct patrols, security and combat operations together. Where do you suggest them work together? In Kobani, Al Bab, Afrin, Manbij, Idlib? Of course they will get along in Turkey.
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I understand your POV, But TR units that will do joint patrols will mostly be Veteran/Special Forces. Therefore as you said, Both Sides know each others very well.
As for the Hot zone, Whatever may be your amount of training, if some want to target them, they will do it. No matter which name they give to their training.

And Yes, Both Side should "train" to put ahead a coordinated force, that's for sure. But as it's written/said, it's like the US gonna train TR troops for basic patrols... As if TR special troops lack the ability to adapt or play by the book. And therefore make it look like a Top necessity for TR to get in... aka Get trained by us or no Manbij...

So, when I see it via such spectrum, I have the suspicion that is all just to be in control of the deployment timing.
But let's see The result of such "extended" training...and How long will it last... If in few months you still get "training in progress" you know it's BS from the US...
 
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HannibalBarca said:
I understand your POV, But TR units that will do joint patrols will mostly be Veteran/Special Forces. Therefore as you said, Both Sides know each others very well.
As for the Hot zone, Whatever may be your amount of training, if some want to target them, they will do it. No matter which name they give to their training.

And Yes, Both Side should "train" to put ahead a coordinated force, that's for sure. But as it's written/said, it's like the US gonna train TR troops for basic patrols... As if TR special troops lack the ability to adapt or play by the book. And therefore make it look like a Top necessity for TR to get in... aka Get trained by us or no Manbij...

So, when I see it via such spectrum, I have the suspicion that is all just to be in control of the deployment timing.
But let's see The result of such "extended" training...and How long will it last... If in few months you still get "training in progress" you know it's BS from the US...
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The troops that will work with the US counterparts will be most probably from a Commando brigade. The Commando brigades in Turkey are brigades that are not considered as special forces but with potential for special operations. In their training they receive the standard tactical training as different formations and room entering patterns etc. But when they are operational the units start to adapt according to the environment and start to improve themselves. They start to care less and less about the exact pattern in which they act and start to adopt their own ways which is not every time the optimal solution. For example in the past such behavior have been strongly opposed by the commanders and I even heard about cases in which you can get harshly punished because you exit the "book" and find your own way to survive in hard situation.

Every military have its own doctrines and procedures. For example the reaction of detected IED of the US and Turkish troops can be different or for example the placement of vehicles like RCWS, jammer equipped or in which the EOD team is being stationed. I heard very nasty stories about Italian personnel abusing the rules of the patrol formations like speed and distance in Afghanistan which created difficulties and bad feels in the other soldiers. Those things have to be worked out. You have a valid point with @Nurhak40 which have to be respected but if something like that happens I am sure Mr. Mevlut Cavusoglu will inform us in the right way :D We must watch carefully the roadmap and its timing. The US doesn't like proper timing. They like terrorism as longer it can last.
 
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How long do you need to train a bloody patrol. Who are they kidding? this is just stalling the Manbij retreat of YPG. This agreement was just for domestic consumption it seems.
 
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what said:
How long do you need to train a bloody patrol. Who are they kidding? this is just stalling the Manbij retreat of YPG. This agreement was just for domestic consumption it seems.
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What does patrol training have to do with the retreating of YPG? Do you know when YPG will retreat? When you bomb the fvck out of Manbij and they cross to Ain Al Arab or die. As long as Manbij Military Council is ruling Manbij YPG will be there and joint patrols or even joint management of the city will not solve that problem. MMC is other name for SDF which is other name for YPG which is other name for PKK. As long the Turkish authorities don't have a full control over Manbij as area nobody must think that YPG will be out of there. This is just the first step of deescalation of tensions, implying better control over the factions and the border areas between ES and Manbij area that can open a way for further deal. The optimal goal is full control over Manbij which will not happen without force if you ask me.

By the way patrol in the proper way together with US forces in that particular area and with these particular circumstances is not something basic to do. One must not understand patrol as just drive the vehicle in formation. On patrol you can encounter everything and you must be ready to react in the best way possible. In order to react in the best way possible you must have a clear procedure/instruction about what have to be done. In order to achieve that you must work with your counterparts on all levels from commanding officers to the troops on the ground in order to achieve the highest possible level of interoperability you can have so you can take the right decisions coordinated with the US forces in every possible scenario and after that to be sure that the procedure is strictly applied and your units are fully compatible with the US so the joint force can be effective enough to react properly to every possible scenario. You don't have the luxury of "Taktik maktik yok" and "Bam bam bam" and especially when working with foreign forces. The "Taktik maktik yok" way is the way of the grave and in that particular situation can lead to the cry of one whole country and endanger the reputation of one of the leading armed forces in the world. The responsibility you are taking with one "bloody patrol" with foreign force is high enough.
 
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It's sad that our retarded government buried his head under the soil like an idiot. They do nothing to support NFL against HTS. Hopefully we will keep being lucky, or inaction behavior of our government will bite our nation in the a$$ eventually.
 
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