Turkish Naval Programs

LegionnairE · Mar 30, 2014

Bismarck said:
Plus Mizrak-D (Naval variant of regular Mizrak?). What is this good for? Sea to land mission.

It's not good for anything on a platform that already has harpoons. It can't be fired from the main gun... total waste of space.

Hmm.... it says STAMP or Mızrak-D launcher. I'm pretty sure it'll be STAMP

STAMP is basically a naval stabilized remotely controlled .50 cal. They can effectively engage a variety of targets.

Bismarck said:
Btw, one RAM is enough for this craft. They has a max speed of 70km/h maybe more, I guess. If it's needed it can turn immediately.

These ships are very fast indeed, but anti ship missiles are almost supersonic... Current design has an at least 60 degrees blind spot due to superstructure of the ship being so close to the aft. Any missiles coming from those angles will sink the ship.

I really don't like this design.

Penguin said:
Does ASSAULT refer to a prime function of attack (as in Fast ATTACK Craft) or landing (as in amphibious ASSAULT vehicle)? If the latter, what is the assault capacity and capability?

it's a FAC, and I think we should leave the littoral combat to patrol ships

This ship has nothing to do with amphibious landings or anything that can happen near coasts.

Penguin · Mar 30, 2014

Bismarck said:
Over weaponize for an assault boat. By the way, good looking boat. Reminds me of Vispy class.

visBy

Visby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LegionnairE said:
it's a FAC, and I think we should leave the littoral combat to patrol ships
This ship has nothing to do with amphibious landings or anything that can happen near coasts.

Then the term ASSAULT is inappropriate imho. It is a big FAC, or small missile corvette if you will.

FACs are effectively employed in the littoral zone, particularly if there are islands along the coast. They are typically not best employed in pure ocean going roles.

Penguin · Mar 30, 2014

LegionnairE said:
These ships are very fast indeed, but anti ship missiles are almost supersonic... Current design has an at least 60 degrees blind spot due to superstructure of the ship being so close to the aft. Any missiles coming from those angles will sink the ship.

Not necessarily.

Consider the guidance:

The original Block 0 design was based upon the infra-red seeker of the Stinger missile, and the warhead, rocket motor and fuse from the Sidewinder missile. The Block 0 configuration uses Radio Frequency (RF) for midcourse guidance and transitions to Infrared (IR) guidance for terminal engagement. There is no shipboard support required (i.e., no illuminators) after missile launch. The Block 1A incorporates the added capability of autonomous IR-all-the-way guidance, thus countering advanced anti-ship cruise missiles that do not employ onboard radar seekers.The Block 2 provides kinematic and guidance improvements to the missile for countering maneuvering threats and regaining battlespace. It features a Control Section upgrade (4 canards vs. current 2), a Propulsion Section upgrade (a larger, composite case rocket motor) and an Evolved Radio Frequency (ERF) receiver. RAM Block 2 Initial Operating Capability (IOC) is planned to occur in 2014.

The US Navy -- Fact File: RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM)

RAM has 2 homing options: RF and IIRH. It can be launched in either RFH or IRH mode, RFH mode will default to IRH mode if RF signal is lost. RF homes in on radar seeker emissions of the incoming missile. There aren't very many AShM with optical guidance or combined optical-radar seeker heads.

A relatively wide angle IRH seeker with RF initial guidance or midcourse update doesn't need line of sight at launch (i.e. it can sort of shoot around a corner, or 'over the shoulder' as it is also called)

Once you get to RAM block 2 (which will also feature vertical launch capability from a quadpacked mk41 cell) there will be full LOAL (lock on after launch capability)

See Naval Institute Guide
The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998 - Norman Friedman - Google Boeken

Extensible Launch System / RAM block 2
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/ms2/documents/launchers/ExLS Fact Sheet.pdf

Original RAM

RAM Block II

LegionnairE · Mar 30, 2014

Penguin said:
FACs are effectively employed in the littoral zone, particularly if there are islands along the coast. They are typically not best employed in pure ocean going roles.

FACs can be very useful in fleet size manuavers aswell ..Their job is to either escort bigger ships such as a fleet replenishment tankers OR to flank and sink bigger enemy ships. TN is, a green sea navy so limited range and ocean unsuitability doesn't mean much.

Penguin said:
Not necessarily.

Consider the guidance:

The US Navy -- Fact File: RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM)

RAM has 2 homing options: RF and IIRH. It can be launched in either RFH or IRH mode, RFH mode will default to IRH mode if RF signal is lost. RF homes in on radar seeker emissions of the incoming missile. There aren't very many AShM with optical guidance or combined optical-radar seeker heads.

A relatively wide angle IRH seeker with RF initial guidance or midcourse update doesn't need line of sight at launch (i.e. it can sort of shoot around a corner, or 'over the shoulder' as it is also called)

Once you get to RAM block 2 (which will also feature vertical launch capability from a quadpacked mk41 cell) there will be full LOAL (lock on after launch capability)

OF course, I totally forgot about Block 2 capabilities

Nice

But still, why is the superstructure so close to aft? one way or another it's limiting RAM launcher's firing angle.. and looks weird..

Penguin · Mar 30, 2014

LegionnairE said:
FACs can be very useful in fleet size manuavers aswell ..Their job is to either escort bigger ships such as a fleet replenishment tankers OR to flank and sink bigger enemy ships. TN is, a green sea navy so limited range and ocean unsuitability doesn't mean much.

OF course, I totally forgot about Block 2 capabilities

Nice But still, why is the superstructure so close to aft? one way or another it's limiting RAM launcher's firing angle.. and looks weird..

Compared to the Kilic, the superstructure is consolidated into a single block, to which stealth shaping has been applied. Much in the way of the French Gowind L'Adroit. It maximizes the firing arc of the longest range self defence weapons, likely a variation of the 76mm Oto (effective range: 5,5+km with DART, 8km with HE, 16km with SAPOM, 20km with SAPOM-ER, 40km with Vulcano), which looks like that in use on UAE Navy Falaj 2 FAC (to be honest, the depiction of the gun on the model could just as easily be a Bofors 57mm in stealth turret, max range 17km, max effective range 8,5km, you can really tell). That by itself can be used as CIWS. The 76/62 Super Rapid (SR) Gun Mount is a light weight, rapid-fire naval gun providing unrivalled performance and flexibility in any air defence and anti surface role, particularly in anti-missile role. By comparison, RAM has a range of 9 km (which is less than 76m against surface targets, but greater than DART). So, from that point of view, the configuration makes much sense. And again, RAM doesn't need a line of sight on the target: block 0 missiles initially home in on active radiation emitted from a target (such as the radar of an incoming AShM ). Then, the terminal guidance is done by an infrared seeker derived from that of the FIM-92 Stinger missile. During RF homing, RAM can lock onto a target 'around a bend', with which the IR seeker has no direct line of sight, which increases the firing arc in spite of any superstructure blocking a direct sight line.
FALAJ 2 class Stealth Patrol Vessel Ghantoot P251 Salahah P252 UAE Navy United Arab Emirates Fincantieri Etihad Ship Building ESB datasheet pictures photos video specifications
OTO Melara 76 mm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Italy 76 mm/62 (3") Compact, SR and USA 76 mm/62 (3") Mark 75

Penguin · Mar 31, 2014

LegionnairE said:
FACs can be very useful in fleet size manuavers aswell ..Their job is to either escort bigger ships such as a fleet replenishment tankers OR to flank and sink bigger enemy ships. TN is, a green sea navy so limited range and ocean unsuitability doesn't mean much.

But for the largest, often also on the edge of being called corvettes, FACs can only provide limited escort capability (i.e. against ships only, since they typically lack ASW and have AAW limited to selfdefence - usually no SAM).

Green-water navy is terminology created to describe a national naval force that is designed primarily to provide coastal defense and may be beginning to acquire the ability to sustain operations on the open ocean. It is a relatively new term, and has been created to better distinguish, and add nuance, between two long-standing descriptors: blue-water navy and brown-water navy.

Green-water navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LegionnairE · Mar 31, 2014

@Penguin
Gowind L'Adroit is a weird piece of sh.t aswell. But I can understand the philosophy.

Agreed with both your posts.

Bismarck · Mar 31, 2014

Penguin said:
visBy

Visby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nice place. But I mean this Visby class Visby-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Penguin · Apr 1, 2014

Bismarck said:
Nice place. But I mean this Visby class Visby-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I knew what you meant, Visby is the town in Sweden that the ship class of the Swedish navy is named after. :azn:

LegionnairE said:
@Penguin
Gowind L'Adroit is a weird piece of sh.t aswell. But I can understand the philosophy.

Agreed with both your posts.

That wedge shape superstructure is becoming more and more common.

Kamil_baku · Apr 1, 2014

asaad-ul-islam said:
I pray that Turkey develops its own high-altitude SAMs, instead of fitting SM-2 on their DDGs. if they do go ahead with that, we can forget about future acquisitions, americans will never supply us with SM-2.

it appears that turkey is aiming for a destroyer in the arleigh burke/type 052C class. all the radar/sensor developments point that way.

turkey plan

A1Kaid said:
Don't get me wrong but Turkey is modernizing so heavily and intensely in it's armed forces as if there was an imminent threat to it's national security...Quite frankly Turkey has the 2nd strongest military in NATO, and by far the most powerful Navy in Europe. It's military power is certainly outstanding and impressive, so this quick modernization and heavy investment in it's Armed Forces seem a bit hasty I guess...Though I don't want to discourage Turkey from becoming even more powerful it has every right...

By the way, this is my first post in the Navy section!

Turkey wants to be 5th powerful army by 2023 and be capable of producing everything it uses in their military.

Shiny Capstar said:
I am wondering how much the common soldier is benefiting from the modernisation these days. All this shiny stuff is well and good but how is the standard equipment of the standard soldier improving, that is what I want to know.
It would help a lot in the fights against the PKK and the like if the infantry receive top quality gear.

they have a program to make turkish rifle for soldiers and also Turkey produce all kinds of land platforms with V shape to rpotect soldiers against mines.