Turkish Naval Programs

[Hexciter]

that is exactly the point I was making to whoever it was who started off by saying TCG Anadolu would be lifting F35B

my 3 points

1- it’s not easy to mix and match fixed and rotary on this platform

2- what evidence have we got to say it will carry F35B, is it a enlarged version of Canberra class, is there evidence of a larger island housing a floor for command and control for fixed wing and whole list of other things

And 3- if they are going for F35B it will be a VERY long time before they start flying off a LHD certainly not first unit anyway

So to repeat what I said right in my very first post the 1st LHD will most likely be rotary the 2nd optimismed for fixed wing by which time it will be post 2025 and F35B training is underway

I had talked about this long time ago in this forum.
Juan Carlos has been designed to accomadate fighter jets that why it has 12 degrees jumping deck. But she designed for Harriers. She can accomadate F-35Bs but necessary modifications as for following:
1. Increased size of F-35,
2. Increased weight of F-35,
3. Increased heat on deck due to powerful engine.
If these modifications not done, as existing Juan Carlos/Canberra classes, she can operate Harrier but F-35B.
Recently Spain announced modification of Juan Carlos to house F-35B which they’ll buy to replace Harriers.
Your comments that leads us to Turks can’t operate F-35B’s on TCG Anadolu is very very childish. If you can claim so, never attemp to comment on Turks again in your lifehood then. I hope you see what I mean.

 

[aziqbal]

You were doing fine until this point

“Your comments that leads us to Turkscan’t operate F-35B’s on TCG Anadolu is very very childish. If you can claim so, never attemp to comment on Turks again in your lifehood then. I hope you see what I mean.”

This section of the forum has 12 year old kids handing down comments as if they are in a place of authority

This is beyond fan boy, this is simply trolling, the quality of comments is getting much worse

 

[cabatli_53]

Operating purely as an aircraft carrier the Juan Carlos 1 design can operate a maximum of about 12 F-35B’s according to the Spanish Armada.

Theoretically it could carry more, if used as a aircraft transport. Up to 20 could be carried only in the hanger, but it would not be usable to operate this way.

JC1 with 20 harriers (or F-35’s) in its hanger. A tight squeeze, but shows how big the space is.



If we consider TCG Anadolu which is redesigned in accordance with TN operational requirements such as F-35B deployment, the additional room and munition depots have also be redrawed so Nothing to worry about. TCG Anadolu will have capacity of carrying following assets simultaneously.

-6 F-35B
-4 T-129 Atak
-8 Medium utility helicopter
-2 SeaHawk heliopter
-2 Drone

or

-12 F-35B

or

-30 Medium Utility Copter

 

[Glass]

TCG anadolu should be used as an aircraft carrier. Then we should build 2 smaller lhd those should be fitted with choppers

 

[TheMightyBender]

I had talked about this long time ago in this forum.
Juan Carlos has been designed to accomadate fighter jets that why it has 12 degrees jumping deck. But she designed for Harriers. She can accomadate F-35Bs but necessary modifications as for following:
1. Increased size of F-35,
2. Increased weight of F-35,
3. Increased heat on deck due to powerful engine.
If these modifications not done, as existing Juan Carlos/Canberra classes, she can operate Harrier but F-35B.
Recently Spain announced modification of Juan Carlos to house F-35B which they’ll buy to replace Harriers.
Your comments that leads us to Turks can’t operate F-35B’s on TCG Anadolu is very very childish. If you can claim so, never attemp to comment on Turks again in your lifehood then. I hope you see what I mean.

I dont know much about aircraft carriers and naval aviation but I think if it is large enough for a v22 it is large enough for an F35

TCG anadolu should be used as an aircraft carrier. Then we should build 2 smaller lhd those should be fitted with choppers

We are building a full fledged aircraft carrier after TCG Anadolu is finished (not my words, Erdoğan's)

 

[Corsair255]

One Frame Two Prides

http://www.adik.com.tr/en/bir-kare-iki-gurur/

TCG Bayraktar and her sistership L-403 Sancaktar are side by side at Anadolu Shipyard's pier. The former is proceeding for final acceptance while latter is counting down for provosional acceptance. It's expected to held a delivery ceremony for L-403 Sancaktar within 10 to 15 days. The followings are some photos from inside and outside of the ships.

Hard Starboard during trials.

@ pier for some testing

Helo Operation

Guess what....

Waiting for Helo...

A wiev from interior

Mine Laying Rails

 

[Saithan]

They're fishing.....

No seriously I think the post by Cabatli shows that it's capable of carrying decent load of F35 and Atak. Who says that you overload a ship to brag about it ? It's all about being operational. and if 6 or 12 F35 is enough to ensure 100% operational ship then that is what will be on it.

RTE is a ..... he probably can't tell the difference from one ship to another

 

[dBSPL]

TCG anadolu should be used as an aircraft carrier. Then we should build 2 smaller lhd those should be fitted with choppers

If the purchase of 16/20 F35 is the case, the second multi role amphibious helicopter carrier ship will probably be 10% bigger than TCG Anadolu, not smaller. Because, apart from the combat jet fleet in the typical task force, AEW helicopters, CSAR and RESCO helicopters also need to operate. The problem is not only the hangar capacity, but also rapid operational preparation is an important problem.

Required shore-to-shore tank capability will be expanded with the Bayraktar II class to be built in the future. ADIK shipyard has been some conceptual work like LST + LPD, and has been promoting them at various fairs. If the amphibious power increase is the case, these concepts can be taken into consideration.

They're fishing.....

of course, but for steel fishes. One mounted on the ship's backbone, other towed array.

 

[Neptune]

Additionally, massively enlarging the amphibious fleet would eventually lead to the formation of expeditionary marine forces. In this aspect, I think its better to start modernizing and reforming the Naval Infantry Brigade both in quantity and quality. They might have a high level of combat readiness and experience (Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia...etc) but amphibious readiness is a whole other thing. It would only be absurd to field aging tanks and APC to an LHD. TCG Bayraktar, Sancaktar, Anadolu, and if planned, Trakya would require a huge manpower for marines. Maybe the Navy shall increase the Marines to division level, taking into account the rotation of forces and increased tensions in maritime domain.

 

[kartal1]

Additionally, massively enlarging the amphibious fleet would eventually lead to the formation of expeditionary marine forces. In this aspect, I think its better to start modernizing and reforming the Naval Infantry Brigade both in quantity and quality. They might have a high level of combat readiness and experience (Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia...etc) but amphibious readiness is a whole other thing. It would only be absurd to field aging tanks and APC to an LHD. TCG Bayraktar, Sancaktar, Anadolu, and if planned, Trakya would require a huge manpower for marines. Maybe the Navy shall increase the Marines to division level, taking into account the rotation of forces and increased tensions in maritime domain.

Very good said! I want to ask you something. Do you think that medium tanks must be procured for the amphibious brigades?

 

[Bismarck]

Additionally, massively enlarging the amphibious fleet would eventually lead to the formation of expeditionary marine forces. In this aspect, I think its better to start modernizing and reforming the Naval Infantry Brigade both in quantity and quality. They might have a high level of combat readiness and experience (Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia...etc) but amphibious readiness is a whole other thing. It would only be absurd to field aging tanks and APC to an LHD. TCG Bayraktar, Sancaktar, Anadolu, and if planned, Trakya would require a huge manpower for marines. Maybe the Navy shall increase the Marines to division level, taking into account the rotation of forces and increased tensions in maritime domain.

As I said before, you must increase the number and bring them to US Marine Corps training Level.

 

[D-Mitch]

Guess what....
View attachment 461719

Nice photo. At the stern you can see the port hole for the anti-torpedo towed array, a system similar to Nixie.

 

[Neptune]

As I said before, you must increase the number and bring them to US Marine Corps training Level.

Correct. Fortunately, due to tense use of Marines in overseas and in counter-terror operations and as well the disputes in Cyprus and Aegean; Turkish Amphibious Naval Infantry Brigade had a high level of training. But in the past, the problem was that marines inducted conscripts but the Navy professionalized the marine force a couple years ago. But of course, amphibious operations training should be made on par with USMC since they are the godfather of marine operations, especially taking into account the way they utilize amphibious assault ships which is something that we are currently lacking and must fill in as LHDs and LSDs arrive. That's why the Navy has increased exercises with USMC over the last years with focus on LHD/LHA borne operations. The photo below is from a USN-DZKK exercise where Turkish marines are familiarized with amphibious assault ships, from previous year or 2016 I suppose.

Very good said! I want to ask you something. Do you think that medium tanks must be procured for the amphibious brigades?

I think we should keep that in mind. All the possible theater of operations for Amphibious Marines, in my opinion are areas where it seems easier to operate medium-tanks. Perhaps, FNSS's solution for Indonesia is a good head-start, noting that it was designed by FNSS on Indonesian requirements, not ours.

 

[kartal1]

Correct. Fortunately, due to tense use of Marines in overseas and in counter-terror operations and as well the disputes in Cyprus and Aegean; Turkish Amphibious Naval Infantry Brigade had a high level of training. But in the past, the problem was that marines inducted conscripts but the Navy professionalized the marine force a couple years ago. But of course, amphibious operations training should be made on par with USMC since they are the godfather of marine operations, especially taking into account the way they utilize amphibious assault ships which is something that we are currently lacking and must fill in as LHDs and LSDs arrive. That's why the Navy has increased exercises with USMC over the last years with focus on LHD/LHA borne operations. The photo below is from a USN-DZKK exercise where Turkish marines are familiarized with amphibious assault ships, from previous year or 2016 I suppose.

I think we should keep that in mind. All the possible theater of operations for Amphibious Marines, in my opinion are areas where it seems easier to operate medium-tanks. Perhaps, FNSS's solution for Indonesia is a good head-start, noting that it was designed by FNSS on Indonesian requirements, not ours.

Thank you for the answer! I think the Kaplan 30 platform can be easily modified for the special requirements of the amphibious group. My opinion is also that the amphibious brigade must procure some medium tanks dedicated to them under their command. The reality is that the m48s are getting older and older and there is not logic in upgrading them. Also those m48s that we are seeing in EFES as far as I know are not under the command of the amphibious group and I think that must be changed. The personal equipment of the units must be upgraded as you said the training standards must go higher and also armored units consisted of modern medium tanks must be added under the amphibious command.

 

[dBSPL]

In our amphibious operation doctrine, landing of armored vehicles is duty of LST and LCT vessels.

Therefore, we do not have too much weight limitations for armored vehicles to shore landing. What important is Qualities of the weapon systems and countermeasures systems carried by these armored vehicles. So when the Altay tank phase 1 is completed, the M60T or the modernized Leopard2 can be shifted to amphibious brigade if needed.

If the ultimate goal is to gain a global force projection (which is an effective diplomatic power also) And if Turkey's capabilities have evolved enough level, the level of brigade ( a little fat brigade ) can be increased to the division level or even to the corps level. In this case, the Amphibious Force's armored vehicle structure should be treated as a separate whole.

Now ,the most important issue is acquire to new abilities while modernization of current combat capability . Strategic expansion is a topic that needs to be discussed in the future. Our homework at hand is the vision of the Navy-2033.