Turkish Naval Programs

[LegionnairE]

Bro, that's why Israeli Navy won't be able to operate out of its air support range. But the thing is we wont use the ships to shoot down planes as we don't have an operational SM-2 comparable system. The current SM-1 in use is the most suitable for A2/AD (anti access/area denial) missions..which China effectively enforces it nowadays. A possible defense layer off the EEZ of Cyprus with subsurface support under basic circumstances can work well.

But, we wont fight Israel at sea. Soon after AKP goes, we get the relations restored in a normal situation.

it's not the point dude... we should have a stronger hand regardless of the political landscape


in any case.. israeli navy isn't my concern... Turkish coast guard could defeat them for all I care
but do you really think SM1s could be enough for our navy to fend for themselves?
because even without air-refueling, F15 was designed to cross the atlantic, hit the russians in the europe and go back to America... it has a crazy long range. to me Israel could totally cut our supply lines to cyprus


We need VLS' on every warship possible... and we should get SM2 equivalent naval SAMs ASAP

Then we should focus on getting new ships

 

[CekilinBenDoktorum]

The only way to deal with Israel is to get the backing of the iranian Mullah Regime and use them to threaten israeli warmongerers like netanjahu.

 

[Neptune]

it's not the point dude... we should have a stronger hand regardless of the political landscape


in any case.. israeli navy isn't my concern... Turkish coast guard could defeat them for all I care
but do you really think SM1s could be enough for our navy to fend for themselves?
because even without air-refueling, F15 was designed to cross the atlantic, hit the russians in the europe and go back to America... it has a crazy long range. to me Israel could totally cut our supply lines to cyprus

Of course we should but the answer of your question is: for today yes, but not for tomorrow. I dont say SM1 is up to date or sth, but it is pretty much reliable for today's A2/AD environment considering that it is supplemented by SMART-S Mk2 and E-7T. That's why this is the strategic goals of our Navy, page 122:

• Kısa vadede (0-5 yıl): Ada Sınıfı Korvetler, Türk Tipi Hücumbotlar, Lojistik Destek Gemileri, Amfibi Gemiler (LST), Denizaltı Kurtarma Ana Gemisi, Kurtarma Yedekleme Gemileri, Araştırma Gemisi, Genel Maksat
Helikopterleri, Deniz Karakol Uçakları, İnsansız Hava Araçları ve İnsansız/Otonom Sualtı Araçları.


• Orta vadede (6-10 yıl): “İ” Sınıfı Fırkateynler, Hava Savunma Harbi Fırkateynleri, Havuzlu Çıkarma Gemisi (LPD/LHD), Muharebe Destek Gemisi, Yeni Nesil Mayın Avlama Gemileri ve Havadan Bağımsız Tahrik Sistemli Denizaltılar.

• Uzun vadede (11-20 yıl): Deniz kontrolü, kuvvet koruma ve güç aktarımı platformlarının sayısı artırılacaktır.

• Yeni platform tedariklerinin yanında süreç içerisinde, envanterde bulunan platformların modernizasyon ve idamesine devam edilirken, kuvvet yapısının etkinliğine ilave katkı sağlamak maksadıyla; Uzun Ufuk Projesi ile Denizde Durumsal Farkındalık yeteneği; Gemi Entegre Savaş İdare Sistemi (GENESİS) ve Kuvvet Ağı İletişim Sistemleri Projesi ile Ağ Destekli Komuta Kontrol Yeteneği sürekli geliştirilecektir.
Belirtilen zaman periyodunda geliştirilecek sistemler ve envantere yeni girecek platformlarla kazanılacak yetenekler şu şekildedir:

Uzun Ufuk Projesi; başlangıçta Ege Denizi'ne yönelik tanımlanmış deniz resmi (TDR)’nin oluşturulması maksadıyla tasarlanan, bilahare "Beyaz Resim" tesisini de ihtiva edecek şekilde tüm denizlerimizi kapsayacak bir sistem mimarisi kazandırılan Uzun Ufuk projesiyle; barış zamanından itibaren Türkiye’yi çevreleyen denizlerde faaliyet gösteren harp gemileri ile harekât ihtiyacının gerektirdiği her türlü deniz vasıtası etkin olarak gözetlenebilecek, tanımlanabilecek ve izlenebilecek; muhtelif kaynaklardan elde edilen bilgiler tek bir havuzda toplanarak gerçek zamanlı TDR derlenebilecektir.
Karaya ve gemiye konuşlu insansız hava araçları; TDR tesis ve idamesini destekleyecek, harekât alanında uzun süreli olarak keşif gözetleme icra edebilecek, tanıma/teşhisin yanı sıra ufuk ötesi hedef iz aktarımı yapabilecek ve gerektiğinde hasar kıymetlendirmesi maksadıyla kullanılabilecektir.

Hava Savunma Harbi fırkateynleri; bölge hava savunmasının sağlanmasının yanında, zorlu deniz şartlarında, İttifak ya da millî harekât gereksinimleri çerçevesinde herhangi bir coğrafyada uzun süreyle görev yapabilecek, açık denizlerde görev icra eden unsurlarımıza sağlayacağı hava savunma desteği ile genişleyen harekât yarıçapı içindeki Görev Gruplarının kuvvet koruma etkinliğini artıracaktır.

Havuzlu Çıkarma/Helikopter Gemileri; ana vatandan uzak deniz alanlarında millî ya da çok uluslu harekâta uzun süre ana üs desteği olmadan aktif olarak katılabilecek, Kara Kuvvetleri/Deniz Piyade unsurlarını harekât bölgesine intikal ettirerek güç aktarımı/amfibi harekât yapabilecek, uçar unsurlarıyla karadaki harekâtı destekleyebilecek, denizde komuta kontrol merkezi olarak görev yapabilecek ve bünyesindeki hastane, hava ulaştırması, geniş muhabere yetenekleri ile kriz bölgelerine müdahalenin yanı sıra, ülkemizde veya diğer ülkelerde muhtemel bir tabii afette, acil yardım organizasyonuna katkı sağlayabilecektir.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Let's argue with facts, pls.
Indeed F-15 can cross the Atlantic without air refueling, but that's all, will they be air-refueled to fly back ?
Some old versions are kept in service like our F-16 Block 30 cause they are old style wired and are capable drop "Free fall Nukes"!

It is very arrogant to compare Israeli Navy with Turkish Coast Guard. JUVENILE or what should I say ??
If someone argues like that he will fail and loose every combat.

Corvettes[edit]
Sa'ar 5-class[edit]
Main article: Sa'ar 5-class corvette

• INS Eilat (Eilat, 1994) – Active
• INS Lahav (Blade, 1994) – Active
• INS Hanit (Spear, 1995) – Active

Missile boats[edit]
Sa'ar 4.5-class[edit]
Main article: Sa'ar 4.5-class missile boat

• INS Romach, pronounced [ʁomaχ] (Lance, 1981) – Active
• INS Keshet (Bow, 1982) – Active
• INS Hetz, pronounced [ˈχet͡s] (Arrow, 1991) – Active
• INS Kidon (Javelin, 1995) (Sa'ar 4-class built in 1974 and converted to Saar 4.5 class in 1994) – Active
• INS Tarshish (1995) – (Sa'ar 4-class built in 1975 and converted to Saar 4.5 class in 1998) – Active
• INS Yaffo (Jaffa, 1998) (Sa'ar 4-class built in 1975 and converted to Saar 4.5 class in 1998) – Active
• INS Herev, pronounced [χeʁev] (Sword, 2002) – Active
• INS Sufa (Storm, 2003) – Active

Submarines[edit]
Dolphin class[edit]
Main article: Dolphin class submarine

• INS Dolphin (1999)
• INS Livyathan (Whale, 1999)
• INS Tekumah (Revival, 2000)

AIP Dolphin 2 class:

• INS Tannin (Crocodile, delivered in 2012)
• INS Rahav (Demon, delivered in 2014)
• Name not assigned yet. Ordered 21 March 2012, expected operational date 2017

Patrol Boats[edit]
[17]

• Dabur class patrol boats – 15 active, built by Sewart Seacraft and IAI-Ramta, adopted in 1973–77
• Dvora – 9 active, adopted from 1988
• Super Dvora Mk II – 4 active, adopted from 1996
• Super Dvora Mk III – 8 active
• Shaldag class fast patrol boat – 5 active
• Shaldag Mk II – 2 active
• Nachshol class patrol boats (Stingray Interceptor-2000) – built by Stingray Marine – 2 active, adopted from 1997–98
• Tzir'ah-class patrol boat - 3 active
• Rafael Protector USV Unmanned Naval Patrol Vehicles
• Silver Marlin USV Naval Patrol Vehicles

Support ships[edit]
[17]

• INS Bat Yam
• INS Bat Galim

Commando boats[edit]

• Dolphin type underwater crafts
• Maiale (pig) type underwater crafts
• Snunit boats
• Zaharon boats
• Moulit boats
• Morena rigid-hulled inflatable boats

Aircraft[edit]
Aircraft operated by the Israeli Navy, even when including on-board Navy mission specialists, are flown and maintained byIsraeli Air Force personnel and are part of the air force command structure.

• Lockheed C-130 Hercules – 2 active[17]
• 120 Squadron – IAI Seascan – 3 active
• 193 Squadron – Eurocopter AS565 Panther – 7 active[17]
• Eurocopter HH-65 Dolphin – 2 active[17]
• Bell UH-1N Twin Huey – 17 active[17]

Unmanned aerial vehicles[edit]

• Aeronautics Defense Orbiter[18]
• The navy has an unmanned helicopter (manufactured by Aeronautics Defense Systems) on Sa'ar 5-class corvettes.[19]

Equipment[edit]

Patrol boats near Eilat

• Barak 1 – Point-defence SAM
• Barak 8 – Long range SAM and anti-missile defence system
• Gabriel – sea-to-sea missile
• Harpoon – anti-ship missile
• Popeye (AGM-142 Have Nap) – air/sub-launched cruise missile. Dolphin-class submarines believed to carry Popeye Turbo with a range >1500 km and the option for nuclear warheads.
• Typhoon Weapon Station – remote-operated 25mm gun system
• NAVLAR Artillery Rocket System
• EL/M-2221 STGR – Search, Track & Guidance/Gunnery Radar
• EL/M-2228S AMDR – Automatic Missile Detection Radar
• EL/M-2228X SGRS – Surveillance & Gunnery Radar System
• EL/M-2238 STAR – Surveillance & Threat Alert Radar
• EL/M-2226 ACSR – Advanced Coastal Surveillance Radar

Future[edit]
Three new Sa'ar 72-class corvettes are under construction at Israel Shipyards, the first of which should enter service in 2015.[20] These are a stretched version of the Sa'ar 4.5 design that will incorporate stealth technology.

Despite some misgivings from Germany, the contract for the sixth and final Dolphin-class submarine is still intact[21] and it should be operational by 2017.[22]ThyssenKrupp will also build four "Sa'ar" patrol vessels for EEZ duties such as protecting offshore gas fields.[23] The ships will be based on the MEKO A-100 design[23] like Germany's Braunschweig-class corvettes, suggesting they will be 90m long and displace around 1,800 tonnes. This deal was signed in December 2014 and Germany is believed to be contributing up to €115m of the €1 billion cost.[24] Previously Israel had hoped to acquire an up-armed version of the Freedomclass of littoral combat ships from Lockheed Martin, but spiralling costs had made this impossible, along with a fallback option from Northrop Grumman/Huntington Ingalls Industries who built the Sa'ar 5 class.

 

[LegionnairE]

Hava Savunma Harbi fırkateynleri; bölge hava savunmasının sağlanmasının yanında, zorlu deniz şartlarında, İttifak ya da millî harekât gereksinimleri çerçevesinde herhangi bir coğrafyada uzun süreyle görev yapabilecek, açık denizlerde görev icra eden unsurlarımıza sağlayacağı hava savunma desteği ile genişleyen harekât yarıçapı içindeki Görev Gruplarının kuvvet koruma etkinliğini artıracaktır.

I'm not satisfied with this.

This implies that our navy assumes that we have air superiority in our surrounding seas. I think we should be prepared for worst... in case TuAF suffers heavy losses which is likely given the fact how many skilled pilots resign from the force annually

can't we replace all SM1s with SM2s and have them on all frigates instead of just a few designated anti-aircraft frigates?
or would that be too costly?

I don't know man... Russian black sea navy is twice the size of what it was 10 years ago
I think it's about time the navy should stop relying on the air force completely

 

[cabatli_53]

I don't wanna be rude but do you fvck your wife with iranian mullahs' cock aswell?

LegionnairE, Such family insults and swearings during normal tones of a good discussion in this thread doesn't behove to your standing in this section. As promised to all members for Moderation, The stability should be provided. Warning issued to you and your Message deleted !

Please keep a good discussion and respect eachothers opinions !

 

[LegionnairE]

LegionnairE, Such family insults and swearings during normal tones of a good discussion in this thread doesn't behove to your standing in this section. As promised to all members for Moderation, The stability should be provided. Warning issued to you and your Message deleted !

bro if you have any way of dealing with these people without family insults and swearings, I applaud you

 

[CekilinBenDoktorum]

bro if you have any way of dealing with these people without family insults and swearings, I applaud you

Respect my Opinion. be a good boy.

 

[cabatli_53]

bro if you have any way of dealing with these people without family insults and swearings, I applaud you

Bro, You know Please discuss everything pages to pages but never loose respect to eachothers. What I am going to do is to support such conversations but If one side starts insulting others, Then It means You don't let much choice me to do in terms of moderation so pay attention setting tone to eachothers.

Let's proceed discussion !

 

[LegionnairE]

Bro, You know Please discuss everything pages to pages but never loose respect to eachothers. What I am going to do is to support such conversations but If one side starts insulting others, Then It means You don't let much choice me to do in terms of moderation so pay attention to respect rules and tonnes.

I've found a better way, now I just ignore the trash... makes your job easier you can thank me later

 

[Neptune]

I'm not satisfied with this.

This implies that our navy assumes that we have air superiority in our surrounding seas. I think we should be prepared for worst... in case TuAF suffers heavy losses which is likely given the fact how many skilled pilots resign from the force annually

can't we replace all SM1s with SM2s and have them on all frigates instead of just a few designated anti-aircraft frigates?
or would that be too costly?

The bold lines parts are descriptions of the roles of these platforms, in future. So relax mate. What you propose has similarities with the RAN's (Aussie navy) Anzac class frigates (Perry). But remember they lie on the ocean, and their country istelf is a continent..whereas we, aside from geographically being phuked up, just a couple hundred miles, you are on Greek mainland, Egypt or Russia.

As far as the current large-scale doctrines of our Navy, roughly we can say that it is focused on two things, Amphibs and combined joint operations which directly adresses NATO missions. But of course the future plannings are solely different. So yes, it is possible but they won't be cost effective, also it won't allow us to maintain a flexible high maneuver force. It will also be a logistical nightmare for maintainers since having such a long range missile on each surface combatant (FF,FFG) on their own short AO layer will make it useless in its role. Also bro think that the Navy's share on the entire defense spending is 14%.

 

[Babur Han]

USA and Japan are the ?only countries with SM3 arsenal up to know.
It is a part of Missile Shield and Turkish CAFRAD and TF2000 will have the same JOB !!!

SM6 and then......JLRASM its SCIFI

but Brahmos and other eastern threat as well Iran ballistic Missile thread is REALITY now !

Laser and other direct Energy Weapons are against Threats from Supersonic AShM, or do you see a Threat from Indian Navy ?

 

[LegionnairE]

The bold lines parts are descriptions of the roles of these platforms, in future. So relax mate. What you propose has similarities with the RAN's (Aussie navy) Anzac class frigates (Perry). But remember they lie on the ocean, and their country istelf is a continent..whereas we, aside from geographically being phuked up, just a couple hundred miles, you are on Greek mainland, Egypt or Russia.

As far as the current large-scale doctrines of our Navy, roughly we can say that it is focused on two things, Amphibs and combined joint operations which directly adresses NATO missions. But of course the future plannings are solely different. So yes, it is possible but they won't be cost effective, also it won't allow us to maintain a flexible high maneuver force. It will also be a logistical nightmare for maintainers since having such a long range missile on each surface combatant (FF,FFG) on their own short AO layer will make it useless in its role. Also bro think that the Navy's share on the entire defense spending is 14%.

okay I hear you... so how about this.. we keep one third of our navy the way it is. And they would be patrolling the aegean.

I think the current doctrine and the order of battle is very suitable for aegean sea
but the ships patrolling black sea and the mediterranean should be the way I described...

threats have changed man... It's long overdue for the Turkish Armed Forces to make a threat assessment and include Israel and Russia in it. We are not just threatened by our border neighbors anymore

If we fight Russia or Israel, TurAF will be in no shape to cover TN.
That's the reality of it

Haber : 5 YILDA 21 HAVA FİLOSU YOK OLDU - Mehmetçik TV
TurAF isn't what it was 15 years ago
things are bad
very fvcking bad

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

@cabatli_53 @xenon54

Up to know I kept quiet. I attach a PDF .
If you want I can send you my own detailed Thesis in Turkish from 2011 Turkey vs. Syria
(all happened up to know) on your true e-mails, answering Bilgesam. All critics here my English, if we would be a multilanguage forum we could write perfect in French and German !

Enough is enough. Who are those "Turkish Cowboys" , appeared suddenly ?

 

[cabatli_53]

7000t TF-2000 and 28000t LHD means a changing strategy in region.
-Reaching longer ranges
-Covering much bigger zones on Search and Tracking radars
-Having Land attack capabilities from 1000km ranges
-Engaging the aerial targets from longer ranges.

One TF-2000 will be able to carry more Surface to Air missiles than our ready to fire active SAM batteries stationed by Land Forces. It is planned to cover around 900-1000km diameter range for searching modes with CAFRAD and IFF will be more or less similar ranges for identifying the threats way before than entering into dangerous zone. If We take into consideration the range of missile (SM-2 Blk IV) officials are planning to integrate for TF-2000, Then We may predict that Navy is strongly upateing the future threat perception against an enemy which has a strong air force than a regular Turkey's neighbour country. They are Russia and Israel I think...

@Hurshid Celebi , Just concantrate on good subjects deserving good conversations and share the related documents If you have any...