Turkish Naval Programs

[Neptune]

Turkey is one of the partners of essm2 develop group. and frankly, we are talking about a air defence frigate (almost destroyer), hisar is not head to head system or missile to essm2. range, precision, seeker,proven, being a partner.. in all specs it is over. I personally choose to use hisar system in corvettes and light frigates. And don't forget : vls cells in tf2000 shall be mk41 (long one) because of gezgin and sm2. Us never sertificates hisar to mk41 nor four hisars never fits to a mk41 cell. they are huge. If you use hisar on mk41 you put best 32 missiles to 16 mk41 but i would prefer 64 essm2.. i guess you missed the sign to attending to essm2 group.

Never heard of that . Can you post link ?

 

[CekilinBenDoktorum]

What's TF-2000 likely armament? it's proposed as an air-defense frigate... so what are be looking at beyond medium-range missiles like ESSM and point-defense RIM-116?

No AIR defence frigate does not Need realy a RIM System. ist expensive. Air defence frigate has Evolved sea sparrow Missiles and Phalanx like defence.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

I see. Going domestic is of course the best decision but the Navy, you know the US defense contractors has a vast dominance over the equipment and armaments especially. And nobody inside believes that TCG Muavenet incident was no accident based on DZKK's own analysts. It is vitally important that we replace them sooner. In addition I heard they were having problems on ESSM magazines per quadropack Mk41 cell.

Muavenet incident was an direct attack , no accident. They gave a message to Turkey !

Like Israel did it before and attacked USS Liberty and it was later declared as accident !

http://www.alanhart.net/israels-attack-on-the-uss-liberty-the-full-story-2/

 

[Transhumanist]

No AIR defence frigate does not Need realy a RIM System. ist expensive. Air defence frigate has Evolved sea sparrow Missiles and Phalanx like defence.

RIM-116 is a Phalanx-type defense system:

Or you can combine the two and get:

It is a point-defense missile system that replaces or augments Phalanx. Unless you want a compromised ship against close-in targets, you'll have a RIM-116 or equivalent.

...

No Phalanx here, it's been replaced by RIM-116:

No AIR defence frigate does not Need realy a RIM System.

How do you plan to use an air-defense frigate without an air-defense missile like RIM-174?

Flak guns? Of course you'll need a RIM equivalent.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

No AIR defence frigate does not Need realy a RIM System. ist expensive. Air defence frigate has Evolved sea sparrow Missiles and Phalanx like defence.

Right. Evolved Phalanx or improved Sea-Guard for last line defence, why RAM ? SM3 - ESSM for AD.

 

[Neptune]

Atmaca will be also subsonic, but others will be more advanced in future e.g JLRASM (ASSM-ER) up to 500 nm range, compatible with ZUMVALT class frigates already.

What will the better choice ? A future threat scenario would be very productive discussion.

Since we don't plan to attack USN in future, no worries . But as far as Atmaca goes, only few nations have made or in the making of their own anti-ship missile. This is a big difference.

For the threat environment, except for possible NATO missions, don't look too far. I say only two words; Eastern Mediterranean, namely the Cyprus.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Massive defence with airburst or combined hardkill ammo is very effective, why RAM against supersonic attackers ?

 

[CekilinBenDoktorum]

Muavenet incident was an direct attack , no accident. They gave a message to Turkey !

Like Israel did it before and attacked USS Liberty and it was later declared as accident !

You are out of your mind.

i have read the accident. The american captain of the USN air carrier was very stressed that day, because the commander of turkish ship was very aggressive and made aggressive maneuvres in the tatbikat before.

The USN captain clearly apologized and said he made a mistake by forgetting to order the Systems to be on offline mode. The USN captain was retired. He was the leader of a huge battle Group and the Actions of the aggressive turkish maritime vessel gave him wrong ideas about the true nature of the tatbikat (real/false battle)

so stop spreading lies about such things you have no clue about!

 

[Transhumanist]

SM3

SM-3 is for missile-defense, not general air-defense. It has very limited counter-air capabilities.

The RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 is a ship-based missile system used by the United States Navy to intercept short-to intermediate-range ballistic missiles as a part of Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System. Although primarily designed as an anti-ballistic missile, the SM-3 has also been employed in an anti-satellite capacity against a satellite at the lower end of low Earth orbit.

If you'd like SM-2 like counter-air performance at longer ranges, coupled with an ABM capability, but one less than SM-3, you'll opt for SM-6.

The RIM-174 Standard Extended Range Active Missile, or Standard Missile 6 is a missile in current production for the United States Navy. It was designed for extended range anti-air warfare (ER-AAW) purposes providing capability against fixed and rotary-wing aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, and anti-ship cruise missiles in flight, both over sea and land.

@Neptune does anyone even bother to research the use of the missiles they propose anymore?

 

[LegionnairE]

Since we don't plan to attack USN in future, no worries . But as far as Atmaca goes, only few nations have made or in the making of their own anti-ship missile. This is a big difference.

For the threat environment, except for possible NATO missions, don't look too far. I say only two words; Eastern Mediterranean, namely the Cyprus.

well, we have israel and Israel has a shitload of more planes than us

and our lack of SM2 equivalent air defence missiles is going to fvck us up the arse if we have to go against them... similiarly even more so against Russia

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

I makes not sense to discuss about a scenario that a RIM-174 anti aircraft missile attacks a vessel,
we should concentrate on realistic and not scifi secaneraios, like supersonic or hypersonic antiship missiles.

 

[Neptune]

What's TF-2000 likely armament? it's proposed as an air-defense frigate... so what are be looking at beyond medium-range missiles like ESSM and point-defense RIM-116?

7,000 tonnes.
The design is shaped on the ÇAFRAD complex;

• ASELSAN ÇAFRAD ÇFR (Çok Fonksiyonlu Radar) / (Multi-function radar)
• ASELSAN ÇAFRAD AYR (Aydinlatma Radar) / (Illumination/fire-control radar)
• ASELSAN ÇAFRAD UMR (Uzun Menzilli Radar) / (Long range radar)
• ASELSAN ÇAFRAD IFF

As for now what we now confirmed related to your question are;

RIM-156A SM-2ER Block IV

Atmaca ASM

Laser CIWS (Project YGLS)

But the expected entry is 2020 wards. So we don't know how the future of US-Turkey relations will shape or the situation and capabilities of Roketsan in that date, we might also see an indigenous development in parallel with the T-LORADMIS project (national air defense missile dender). But IMO, if Turkey decides on increasing its input and partnership on NATO BMD, we might opt for SM-3 too, but this would require ÇAFRAD to be integrated within the AEGIS. Let's see.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

USA and Japan are the only countries with SM3 arsenal up to know.
It is a part of Missile Shield and Turkish CAFRAD and TF2000 will have the same JOB !!!

SM6 and then......JLRASM its SCIFI

but Brahmos and other eastern threat as well Iran ballistic Missile thread is REALITY now !

 

[Neptune]

well, we have israel and Israel has a shitload of more planes than us

and our lack of SM2 equivalent air defence missiles is going to fvck us up the arse if we have to go against them... similiarly even more so against Russia

Bro, that's why Israeli Navy won't be able to operate out of its air support range. But the thing is we wont use the ships to shoot down planes as we don't have an operational SM-2 comparable system. The current SM-1 in use is the most suitable for A2/AD (anti access/area denial) missions..which China effectively enforces it nowadays. A possible defense layer off the EEZ of Cyprus with subsurface support under basic circumstances can work well.

But, we wont fight Israel at sea. Soon after AKP goes, we get the relations restored in a normal situation.

 

[CekilinBenDoktorum]

Yes the eastern threats are reality. Iran showed their balistic Missile Arsenal just a few days ago to the whole world. SHAHAB 3 Missiles with 2000 km range. These maniacs build 300!! of them!

when thinking they can easily build dirty bombs with nuclear material. that idea gives me the creeps!

We should better have a quiet tone against them in the future. Noone will help us, NATO will chicken out!