Turkish general elections 2015 updates and final result.

[LegionnairE]

This reminds me of this discovery i have made a couple months ago and you know what, i like this work of Diyanet.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Turkey in radical revision of Islamic texts

If it becomes succesful it'll be nice... Islam is in desperate need of reform...
I'd support such a movement but then I'm an atheist so...

I mean I'd prefer the total eradication of religion so we could stop wasting our time with that altogether.
But I'll take what I can get.

 

[xenon54 out]

If it becomes succesful it'll be nice... Islam is in desperate need of reform...
I'd support such a movement but then I'm an atheist so...

I mean I'd prefer the total eradication of religion so we could stop wasting our time with that altogether.
But I'll take what I can get.

Well then take a look at this article, the one from BBC is from 2009 when the work started and this one is from 2013 the works seems to be completed and currently being translated to Bosnian and German.
Also some publishers from Egypt showed interest in it.
I would recommend to you to read it.

FEATURE-Turkey presents Prophet's sayings for the 21st Century| Reuters

In the ocean of radicalisation in muslim world its good to see that at least something is being done in the right direction, interesting to see that this is happening under AKP goverment though, anyways the radical salafi ideology that started to spread recently needs to be countered or the result might be disastrous, not only for ''Kuffars'' but also fellow Muslims as Syria and Iraq proved it recently.

@Atanz you might be interested in this.

 

[LegionnairE]

Well then take a look at this article, the one from BBC is from 2009 when the work started and this one is from 2013 the works seems to be completed and currently being translated to Bosnian and German.
Also some publishers from Egypt showed interest in it.
I would recommend to you to read it.

FEATURE-Turkey presents Prophet's sayings for the 21st Century| Reuters

In the ocean of radicalisation in muslim world its good to see that at least something is being done in the right direction, interesting to see that this is happening under AKP goverment though, anyways the radical salafi ideology that started to spread recently needs to be countered or the result might be disastrous, not only for ''Kuffars'' but also fellow Muslims as Syria and Iraq proved it recently.

@Atanz you might be interested in this.

I was hoping for more actually...

because as I said, hadiths aren't the biggest issue for me
they need to get to the core of the problem which is Kuran.

Nobody said Kuran was unchangeable, it was changed numerous times before.
The current verison of it was written by Uthman the third caliph.

I mean I appreciate the effort but... something like Martin Luther's protestant reformation is exactly what we need.

and by we I mean you...

 

[kalu_miah]

Well then take a look at this article, the one from BBC is from 2009 when the work started and this one is from 2013 the works seems to be completed and currently being translated to Bosnian and German.
Also some publishers from Egypt showed interest in it.
I would recommend to you to read it.

FEATURE-Turkey presents Prophet's sayings for the 21st Century| Reuters

In the ocean of radicalisation in muslim world its good to see that at least something is being done in the right direction, interesting to see that this is happening under AKP goverment though, anyways the radical salafi ideology that started to spread recently needs to be countered or the result might be disastrous, not only for ''Kuffars'' but also fellow Muslims as Syria and Iraq proved it recently.

@Atanz you might be interested in this.

I read that Reuters article. Good work by Diyanet. I think Turkey is in the best position to start an effort like this:
How to stop Islamic extremism: Global Fiqh Council (GFC)

Salafi literalism has been a curse for the Sunni Muslim world, I think we need a GFC type effort that will expand on the Diyanet type of work you mentioned to eliminate this Salafi nonsense that has been the root cause of terrorism and extremism in the Sunni Muslim world. The main goal should be to develop a uniform worldwide standard for Sunni Islam so all others like Salafi etc. can be declared null, void and outside of Sunni Islam. If they like, they can of course call it Salafi Islam, as a third variant, after Shia and Sunni, but they should not be allowed to call themselves Sunni.

Shia's I believe did a good job with their jurisprudence in Qom, but the resulting Shia unity is being used against a Salafi infested fragmented and weakened Sunni Muslim world.

We also need a club of democratic Muslim countries to promote democracy in the Muslim world (Shia and Sunni) so democracy takes root and become more entrenched as a tradition and culture. I think this topic deserves a thread, but not sure what section I should put it in. As a side note, Salafism was historically being used and is currently being used against democracy and to prop up Western supported monarchies.

 

[xenon54 out]

I read that Reuters article. Good work by Diyanet. I think Turkey is in the best position to start an effort like this:
How to stop Islamic extremism: Global Fiqh Council (GFC)

Salafi literalism has been a curse for the Sunni Muslim world, I think we need a GFC type effort that will expand on the Diyanet type of work you mentioned to eliminate this Salafi nonsense that has been the root cause of terrorism and extremism in the Sunni Muslim world. The main goal should be to develop a uniform worldwide standard for Sunni Islam so all others like Salafi etc. can be declared null, void and outside of Sunni Islam. If they like, they can of course call it Salafi Islam, as a third variant, after Shia and Sunni, but they should not be allowed to call themselves Sunni.

Shia's I believe did a good job with their jurisprudence in Qom, but the resulting Shia unity is being used against a Salafi infested fragmented and weakened Sunni Muslim world.

We also need a club of democratic Muslim countries to promote democracy in the Muslim world (Shia and Sunni) so democracy takes root and become more entrenched as a tradition and culture. I think this topic deserves a thread, but not sure what section I should put it in. As a side note, Salafism was historically being used and is currently being used against democracy and to prop up Western supported monarchies.

The problem is its really hard to do something like this outside of your own boundaries, every country need to do it by itself, Turkey can reach Balkan and CA with its effort at best and maybe Egypt too as the article mentioned since it also has sufi influence but i dont think it would ever reach majority of ME.

But unfortunately the radicalism seems to be spreading like a wildfire across muslim world.

 

[Bismarck]

I was hoping for more actually...

because as I said, hadiths aren't the biggest issue for me
they need to get to the core of the problem which is Kuran.

Nobody said Kuran was unchangeable, it was changed numerous times before.
The current verison of it was written by Uthman the third caliph.

I mean I appreciate the effort but... something like Martin Luther's protestant reformation is exactly what we need.

and by we I mean you...

That Kuran was changed a fwe times does not mean it is allowed to change it. Many (most) muslims would have a problem if you want to. But your idea goes in the right direction.

So, how could you solve that problem? I thing you should use another term. Lets say new interpretation of Kuran. Many words in arabic like Jihad has different meanings, so, you have opportunity to indicate Kuran new.

 

[Exocet]

That Kuran was changed a fwe times does not mean it is allowed to change it. Many (most) muslims would have a problem if you want to. But your idea goes in the right direction.

So, how could you solve that problem? I thing you should use another term. Lets say new interpretation of Kuran. Many words in arabic like Jihad has different meanings, so, you have opportunity to indicate Kuran new.

First of all, you should learn that all those problems doesn't originate directly from Islam but from the Ideologies that applies it's rules(Arabs mostly).

 

[kalu_miah]

The problem is its really hard to do something like this outside of your own boundaries, every country need to do it by itself, Turkey can reach Balkan and CA with its effort at best and maybe Egypt too as the article mentioned since it also has sufi influence but i dont think it would ever reach majority of ME.

But unfortunately the radicalism seems to be spreading like a wildfire across muslim world.

In addition to Balkan and CA, Turkey needs to include Indonesia and Malaysia, the only other two "moderate" Muslim democracies. @Indos you may find this interesting. Once you have these countries in the team, you can then form the GFC and invite other countries like Egypt, Tunisia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India etc. The salafi monarchies will be dead set against it and OIC will be useless for this purpose as it is funded and controlled by the monarchies.

The spreading of salafism took a lot of effort and money. I heard at least 3-4 billion has been spent every year in mosques around the world by the oil-rich monarchies to spread salafism since late seventies. The total amount spent so far is more than 100 billion, as a result they have gained a world wide following. This has to be countered with a world wide GFC effort funded and supported by the countries in the above team.

Good news is that lower oil price is shrinking the resource pool of anti-democracy salafi backers and their reserves are set to come to zero in a few years. This presents an opportunity.

 

[LegionnairE]

That Kuran was changed a fwe times does not mean it is allowed to change it. Many (most) muslims would have a problem if you want to. But your idea goes in the right direction.

So, how could you solve that problem? I thing you should use another term. Lets say new interpretation of Kuran. Many words in arabic like Jihad has different meanings, so, you have opportunity to indicate Kuran new.

I'd just cut out the parts about wifebeating, polygamy and things like kill all infidels etc... all the parts that don't fit into 21st century morals and print it that way

and I'd grab my popcorn and watch people argue why those parts shouldn't be removed
of course some would support it, some would be against it and before you know it a new sect is born.

I mean that's how christian protestantism was born right?

First of all, you should learn that all those problems doesn't originate directly from Islam but from the Ideologies that applies it's rules(Arabs mostly).

It's the same thing to be frank. Islam is an arab mythology and ideology built on jewish beliefs and customs.

 

[Exocet]

I'd just cut out the parts about wifebeating, polygamy and things like kill all infidels etc... all the parts that don't fit into 21st century morals and print it that way

and I'd grab my popcorn and watch people argue why those parts shouldn't be removed
of course some would support it, some would be against it and before you know it a new sect is born.

I mean that's how christian protestant was born right?

It's the same thing to be frank. Islam is an arab mythology and ideology built on jewish beliefs and customs.

Aklıma geldi de, çok eşlilik bazen zorunlu olabilir. Mesela 15-18 yüzyıl arası tatarlar Rus erkeklerini toplayıp götürmesinden dolayı hani.

The order of killing all infidels in Quran is applied in war not in peace.

 

[xenon54 out]

In addition to Balkan and CA, Turkey needs to include Indonesia and Malaysia, the only other two "moderate" Muslim democracies. @Indos you may find this interesting. Once you have these countries in the team, you can then form the GFC and invite other countries like Egypt, Tunisia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India etc. The salafi monarchies will be dead set against it and OIC will be useless for this purpose as it is funded and controlled by the monarchies.

The spreading of salafism took a lot of effort and money. I heard at least 3-4 billion has been spent every year in mosques around the world by the oil-rich monarchies to spread salafism since late seventies. The total amount spent so far is more than 100 billion, as a result they have gained a world wide following. This has to be countered with a world wide GFC effort funded and supported by the countries in the above team.

Good news is that lower oil price is shrinking the resource pool of anti-democracy salafi backers and their reserves are set to come to zero in a few years. This presents an opportunity.

Anyways something has to be done right now, as far as i know salafism also started to spread in South East Asia such as Malaysia and Indonesia, it would be a shame to see those beautyful countries to become the ME of Asia.

Btw: where the hell is @Atanz id like to hear his view.

 

[AUz]

That Kuran was changed a fwe times does not mean it is allowed to change it. Many (most) muslims would have a problem if you want to. But your idea goes in the right direction.

So, how could you solve that problem? I thing you should use another term. Lets say new interpretation of Kuran. Many words in arabic like Jihad has different meanings, so, you have opportunity to indicate Kuran new.

Qur'an wasn't "changed" so to speak during Uthman's times. It would be impossible to do. It was standardized into one universal reading.

Qur'an of today is exactly same what Muhammad (SAW) dictated. Whether you believe he received it from God or dictated it from his own mind--its upto you and your belief system.

Having said it, it is undisputed belief in Islam that Qur'an is perfect word of God and unchangeable. Hence, any "change" or any "effort" to introduce "change" in Qur'an is futile. It has never worked in history before, and it never will. Islam isn't Christianity and Qur'an is Bible and Muslims aren't Christian. Islam is vastly more powerful force compared to Christianity and it plays a much bigger role globally in people's life than Christianity does (mainly because of different constructions of both faiths). So lets not waste our time in expecting this "change in Qur'an" to come. It would not come. You know it, I know it.

However, you can always come up with better/different understanding and interpretations of Qur'anic text And this is what should be focused. So I agree with you in that regard. However, Jihad isn't something problematic. You just need to teach Muslims how Jihad doesn't mean insurgencies. You get the drift..

Moreover, Turkish authorities didn't "reform" Hadiths as in they changed or cut-down from hadiths. They just picked hundreds of hadiths out of thousands of hadiths and compiled them in terms of relevance today (Hadiths dealing with education, finances, and stuff..and hadiths about horses, camels, tribal societies are in background (since they aren't much relevant now).

So a "reform" like Christianity (where, with due respect, entire religion was made a joke and was changed by humans..and hence nobody---not even christians--take it seriously no more) won't happen in Islam. And shouldn't.

 

[Indos]

Anyways something has to be done right now, as far as i know salafism also started to spread in South East Asia such as Malaysia and Indonesia, it would be a shame to see those beautyful countries to become the ME of Asia.

Btw: where the hell is @Atanz id like to hear his view.

@kalu_miah

Yup, right, those Salafis has some kind of blind support into Saudi policy and in the other hand Shiah around the world also has same kind attitude into Iran Mullah.

But, It should be separated with Wahhabism movement since Wahhabism has already been here before our freedom and before Saudi even exist. Wahhabism power in Indonesia is in the hand of Muhammadiyah organisation, very powerful and independent from any influence, even one of its important figure (Hamka) has embraced Sufism as well. It has already been the second largest Muslim organisation in my country with many members who has shaped our country politics since the old time until now.

 

[LegionnairE]

Qur'an wasn't "changed" so to speak during Uthman's times. It would be impossible to do. It was standardized into one universal reading.

You don't know that.. all previous versions were destroyed by Uthman and the current version was standardized...

It wasn't even a "book" before Abu Bakr put it together.
in a sense what diyanat is doing today is the same as with what Abu Bakr did 1400 years ago.

So a "reform" like Christianity (where, with due respect, entire religion was made a joke and was changed by humans..and hence nobody---not even christians--take it seriously no more) won't happen in Islam. And shouldn't.

You obviously haven't heard of Ken Ham...

And to be honest taking religion a bit less seriously is percisely what people need. No offense but society can't advance a centimeter with people saying "there's only one law and that is the lord's law", "human laws don't mean anything" and shit like that

 

[AUz]

You don't know that.. all previous versions were destroyed by Uthman and the current version was standardized...

It wasn't even a "book" before Abu Bakr put it together.
in a sense what diyanat is doing today is the same as with what Abu Bakr did 1400 years ago.

No, we do know that.

Qur'an, which was already accepted by the word of God and Muhammad to be the last prophet, could not have been changed by anyone because original scribes of Qur'an and original believers of Muhammad were still alive and they were the one's who 'standardized' Qur'an (Uthmanic Qur'an). Any change in Qur'an would have led to massive upheaval amongst the believers who saw Qur'an as last/final word of God and Muhammad (SAW) to be last prophet.

Qur'an of today is Qur'an of Muhammad, literally. You can believe it to be work of GOD or work of Muhammad..its upto you.

And I agree with you. Religion needs to be moderately taken by society. Focussing solely on religion without other considerations is stupid (like lots of Muslims do in Muslim World).