Turkish Defence Industry Exports & Updates

[HRK]

On top of that, Pakistan has now produced ''indigenous'' grenade launchers with zero money, risk, R&D, thanks to most probable ToT from Turkey.

Daudson is a private company (company website) so your claim of TOT is invalid.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Daudson is a private company (company website) so your claim of TOT is invalid.

Very convincing argument to refute the whole story/context, congrats, any other to refute more?

 

[HRK]

Very convincing argument to refute the whole story/context, congrats, any other to refute more?

I am not aware about this development otherwise would have shared more ....

And for INSINUATING tone in this post about the development ...plz read the excerpt

The DSA PAK-40 was also tested for compatibility with RDM Ammunition at RDM South Africa in March 2016. The trial yielded favourable results and the DSA AGL PAK-40 was recommended with strong potential for use with the RDM ammunition. It is worthy to note that the DSA PAK-40 has also been previously tested in-house with NATO compliant 40mm ammunition from Chemring Ordnance USA and Hanwha South Korea.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...de-launcher-undergoing-pakistani-army-trials/

 

[-------]

Summary:

• Pakistan ordered some 488 grenade launchers from MKEK/Turkey,
• Kalekalıp produced all and delivered some 288 to Pakistan,
• Pakistan used them with unspecified different ammo, and broke some, refused to send back the rest,
  
• Turkey fixed them as good willing gesture and free of charge, but at cost of disreputation for her industry
• Pakistan paid no money, even a penny in the contract of $10 million.

On top of that, Pakistan has now produced ''indigenous'' grenade launchers with zero money, risk, R&D, thanks to most probable ToT from Turkey.

Treachery.. Idiocy.. Genius.

Pakistani grenade launcher: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/army...y-produced-automatic-grenade-launcher.556827/

If that is the case, Turkey can and should recuperate costs in goods and services... Business is Business, no emotions involved only interests.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

I am not aware about this development otherwise would have shared more ....

And for INSINUATING tone in this post about the development ...plz read the excerpt

The context in my first post tells how this ''indigenious'' grenade launcher pops up in Pakistan; the part you share is a passage about trials nothing special to prove anything in the whole story.

The point here is that Some dreamers made a deal of $10 million, delivered some, even fixed at cost of disreputation for her own industry as gesture, probably transferred ToT gained with hard work, money, time, engineering.

All those happened with free of charge, and you come here and share some trial passage to refute the whole story.

No time for trolling/baiting.

If that is the case, Turkey can and should recuperate costs in goods and services... Business is Business, no emotions involved only interests.

There is no legal business here despite an agreement.

The interests of Turkey have been damaged, disreputed nationally and internationally; national defence know how leaked to another country, some $10 million stolen from Turk taxpayers, set an example about Turk defence industry for countries in the global market.

National and International justice system have to be applied for who caused this.

 

[HRK]

The context tells how this ''indigenious'' grenade launcher pops up in Pakistan; the part you share is a passage about trials nothing special to prove anything in the whole story.

Are you a a NUT ...??

Just check the date of deal with Turkey and the dates of deliver of the Turkish system to Pakistan and the dates of trial of this system in South Africa and even in Pakistan, and for sake of information this is not the FIRST grenade launcher system by this company before this system they were offering another system name DSA AGL-40 even before the deal with Turkey in fact AGL-40 was under trail at that time but Pakistan Army decided in favour of Turkish system

probably transferred ToT gained with hard work, money, time, engineering.

So just on the basis of PROBABILITY you are claiming that TOT was made and now accusing Pakistan for UNAUTHORISED reverse engineering ....????

Before making such ridiculous claims have you research about the system you are claiming to based of Turkish system or a result of CLAIMED TOT ....???

All those happened with free of charge, and you come here and share some trial passage to refute the whole story.

read again with open eyes

I refuted what ...???

Your FALSE CLAIM of TOT/ UNAUTHORISED REVERSE ENGINEERING or you claim regarding the financial transaction related to the deal ....

I have clearly posted about the Financial transaction in my PREVIOUS POST

I am not aware about this development otherwise would have shared more ....

as for your remarks about the tril of this system in South Africa the excerpt was posted to show that this PK-40 was in trail at the time deal was made for Turkish system so a system which was develop well before the alleged TOT could not use the CLAIMED transfer of technology

No time for trolling/baiting.

It was you who is baiting here and have done it in past as well (I am aware of posting history specially your posts about Pakistan)

 

[Seyfullah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/992668315540774912

 

[Seyfullah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/993027993319690240

 

[-------]

20+ Aselsan weapon stations - Kazakhstan

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="tr" dir="ltr">ilişkileri dolayısıyla özel olarak ilgilendik. Bir miktar silahı buraya getirterek iyileştirmelerini yaptık. Hem burada hem orada testler yaptık. Önümüzdeki hafta da silahları oraya götürüp yerinde testlerini yapacağız.<br>Bu testlerle sürecin tamamlanacağını ümit ediyoruz”. <a href="https://t.co/faVwFMo4GN">pic.twitter.com/faVwFMo4GN</a></p>&mdash; Turan Oguz (@TyrannosurusRex) <a href="

https://twitter.com/x/status/981884722468065281

">April 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://twitter.com/x/status/983645766697869312

Are you a a NUT ...??

Just check the date of deal with Turkey and the dates of deliver of the Turkish system to Pakistan and the dates of trial of this system in South Africa and even in Pakistan, and for sake of information this is not the FIRST grenade launcher system by this company before this system they were offering another system name DSA AGL-40 even before the deal with Turkey in fact AGL-40 was under trail at that time but Pakistan Army decided in favour of Turkish system
View attachment 472198
View attachment 472200

So just on the basis of PROBABILITY you are claiming that TOT was made and now accusing Pakistan for UNAUTHORISED reverse engineering ....????

Before making such ridiculous claims have you research about the system you are claiming to based of Turkish system or a result of CLAIMED TOT ....???


read again with open eyes

I refuted what ...???

Your FALSE CLAIM of TOT/ UNAUTHORISED REVERSE ENGINEERING or you claim regarding the financial transaction related to the deal ....

I have clearly posted about the Financial transaction in my PREVIOUS POST

as for your remarks about the tril of this system in South Africa the excerpt was posted to show that this PK-40 was in trail at the time deal was made for Turkish system so a system which was develop well before the alleged TOT could not use the CLAIMED transfer of technology

It was you who is baiting here and have done it in past as well (I am aware of posting history specially your posts about Pakistan)

Media outlet Sozcu is not a reputable source and they always add their own twists to sway the readers opinion, even the headline is clickbait and trolly: 'an 8 year long friend trap' or 'a trap of 8 years in the making by a friend'. The Turan Oguz twitter posted the facts without judgment or some sort of alterior motive or agenda, the source (director of MKE) claims that the initial tests of the revised launchers in Pakistan in early 2018 were successful except for the -40 degrees tests, and that they fixed this and will test again in a few weeks and are hoping that this will resolve the whole issue.

Business is business, and there can always be some sort of problems in doing business. It's how this is handled is what separates good companies from bad ones. Neither Pakistan nor Turkey are going to jeopardize their relationship with each other, especially not for such a small deal. 10 million sounds like a lot, but between counties it's nothing to write home about. To give some perspective, Turkey and Pakistan had a trade volume of 610 million dollars in 2016, couldn't find the 2017 numbers.

It is correct that the launchers get 'fixed', not the Pakistani ammo. It is easier and more pragmatic to fix the launchers, instead of fixing every grenade/ammo in the Pakistani inventory.

And in my opinion MKE (and Pakistan as well btw) could have, and should have known when taking this deal that the Pakistani army was going to use Pakistani made ammo with the launcher. So MKE or KALE should've predicted that and should've produced the, for Pakistan intended, launchers with that in mind in the first place. The source states that they tested the launchers before shipping it to Pakistan, but that was more than likely done with Turkish ammo, otherwise they wouldn't have had this problem. I hope both Kale and MKE get a lesson learned out of this and won't repeat something like this in the future.

 

[Seyfullah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/993392819522981894

https://twitter.com/x/status/993442460549419013

https://twitter.com/x/status/993463693651398656

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Media outlet Sozcu is not a reputable source and they always add their own twists to sway the readers opinion, even the headline is clickbait and trolly: 'an 8 year long friend trap' or 'a trap of 8 years in the making by a friend'. The Turan Oguz twitter posted the facts without judgment or some sort of alterior motive or agenda, the source (director of MKE) claims that the initial tests of the revised launchers in Pakistan in early 2018 were successful except for the -40 degrees tests, and that they fixed this and will test again in a few weeks and are hoping that this will resolve the whole issue.

Business is business, and there can always be some sort of problems in doing business. It's how this is handled is what separates good companies from bad ones. Neither Pakistan nor Turkey are going to jeopardize their relationship with each other, especially not for such a small deal. 10 million sounds like a lot, but between counties it's nothing to write home about. To give some perspective, Turkey and Pakistan had a trade volume of 610 million dollars in 2016, couldn't find the 2017 numbers.

It is correct that the launchers get 'fixed', not the Pakistani ammo. It is easier and more pragmatic to fix the launchers, instead of fixing every grenade/ammo in the Pakistani inventory.

And in my opinion MKE (and Pakistan as well btw) could have, and should have known when taking this deal that the Pakistani army was going to use Pakistani made ammo with the launcher. So MKE or KALE should've predicted that and should've produced the, for Pakistan intended, launchers with that in mind in the first place. The source states that they tested the launchers before shipping it to Pakistan, but that was more than likely done with Turkish ammo, otherwise they wouldn't have had this problem. I hope both Kale and MKE get a lesson learned out of this and won't repeat something like this in the future.

• The criteria set by Pakistan and ''even harder than NATO'' criteria were met in the trials dispite the climate regarding -40,
  
• Pakistan accepted and got the weapons 288 out of 488,
• Pakistan used unspecified non-NATO standart poor quality ammo because of cost, and broke some as a result;
• Pakistan did not pay any money for the contract and fix, also refused to send back 288 launchers of $ 10 million,
  
• Pakistan meantime produced ''indigenous'' launchers, thanks to probable ToT from Turkey without any cost,risk or R&D by Pakistan,
• Turk state, Turk defence industry and Turk taxpayers are damaged and disreputed,
  
• The Turk producer will go to international court for this.

An international agreement between 2 countries is important for two reasons; Legality and Reputation.

The Legal issue grants the rights of the parties for the current situation, and The Reputation gives heads up for other countries about these two countries' ways of business in the future.

The ''argument'' you present in the first paragraph is ''defaming the media outlet'', and ironically in the second paragraph you approve the fact written by the same media outlet you defamed a few second ago; later you attempt to cover the scandal with annual trade between two countries ignores both Legality and Reputation for Turkey, worse whitewashes and supports the Illegality and Disreputation.

Also, ''The argument'' describes you, thanks for the heads up about you.

 

[HRK]

Can someone tell me what was the total value of contact for the Automatic Grenade Launchers b/w Turkey and Pakistan

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

• The criteria set by Pakistan and ''even harder than NATO'' criteria were met in the trials dispite the climate regarding -40,
• Pakistan accepted and got the weapons 288 out of 488,
• Pakistan used unspecified non-NATO standart poor quality ammo because of cost, and broke some as a result;
• Pakistan did not pay any money for the contract and fix, also refused to send back 288 launchers of $ 10 million,
  
• Pakistan meantime produced ''indigenous'' launchers, thanks to probable ToT from Turkey without any cost,risk or R&D by Pakistan,
• Turk state, Turk defence industry and Turk taxpayers are damaged and disreputed,
  
• The Turk producer will go to international court for this.

An international agreement between 2 countries is important for two reasons; Legality and Reputation.

The Legal issue grants the rights of the parties for the current situation, and The Reputation gives heads up for other countries about these two countries' ways of business in the future.

The ''argument'' you present in the first paragraph is ''defaming the media outlet'', and ironically in the second paragraph you approve the fact written by the same media outlet you defamed a few second ago; later you attempt to cover the scandal with annual trade between two countries ignores both Legality and Reputation for Turkey, worse whitewashes and supports the Illegality and Disreputation.

Also, ''The argument'' describes you, thanks for the heads up about you.

The director of MKE said they completed these tests in january of 2018, and it failed the -40 degree's test. And that they fixed this issue and will test again in the following weeks.

Quote from source (as posted on twitter by Turan Oguz):
"Sonuc itibariyla, yil basinda Pakistan'da yapilan testlerde basari saglandi. Sadece, biraz once belirttigim gibi eksi derecelerde atilan muhammatlarda bir sikinti goruldu. Bunu da duzelttik. Onumuzdeki hafta 8 nisan-14 nisan tarhileri arasinda ekibimiz Pakistan'da silahlari goturup burada yeniden testlerini yapacagiz. Biz bu testlerle surecin tamamlanacigini umit ediyoruz...."

The whole ToT speculation of yours has proven to be incorrect by @HRK post #2466, so I don't understand why you are still bringing that up. And if the ToT thing were to be true, they would've given the launchers back because they can create their own launcher now and wouldn't have to pay any money to MKE. The rest of your post is just conjecture. Just to clarify, the whole contract is worth 10 million $ btw (488 launchers), not just the 288 launchers that was delivered.

The ''argument'' you present in the first paragraph is ''defaming the media outlet'', and ironically in the second paragraph you approve the fact written by the same media outlet you defamed a few second ago; later you attempt to cover the scandal with annual trade between two countries ignores both Legality and Reputation for Turkey, worse whitewashes and supports the Illegality and Disreputation.

I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make in the second paragraph, re-read it.
And I didn't use Sozcu as reference, I used the documents tweeted by Turan Oguz as reference. They specify that the whole contract is worth 10 million $ and that there were some technical problems and incompatibility issues with the local ammo. It didn't specify that Pakistan didn't pay the money in those documents, but that doesn't mean it's not there though. He hasn't posted the whole document.

By the way, both Pakistan and MKE are right by the way. They each have their own valid arguments. Pakistan expects a working product, and is right to postpone payment until that criteria is met. At the end of the day, customer is king and MKE is handling this very professionally and correctly.

But MKE should've foreseen the ammo incompatibility issue's beforehand to be honest and shouldn't have been in this situation to begin with.
In gun reviews the reviewers always test various ammo to see if they still work properly. And usually the weapons that can chew out even the cheapest of ammo's are reviewed most favorably. I don't know much about guns etc. but even I know about that, so MKE should've anticipated this ammo thing from the get-go when producing those launchers.

 

[Seyfullah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/993551034667716608