Turkish deal with Pakistan

[ejaz007]

Salam, I think that colabration with turkey will bring more self-reliance than china with hi-tech also .I would comment that they should upgrade those F-16's in Kamra so that it would be cheap a bit & can give an awsome amount of knowlege to the PAC engineeres and they should upgrage to that of stantard of blk-60 if possible / blk-60 with AESA and things like JF-17 would have(PAF avionics made my sagem& europeans co.) . Also they should concentrate on developing an aircraft like AEW&C (balance beam & rotordome) and AEW/ELINT

I don't think upgrading F-16's at Kamra would reduce cost as is generally thought. The reason is that PAF do not have the expertise to carry out upgrade. US engineers and technicians would have to be involved and then the equipment and material required shall have to be transported from US to Pakistan. Frequent travel of US personnel might create some problems as they might refuse to come to Pakistan incase an incident takes place in Pakistan such as bomb blast. Then US government might issue travel warnings and this might delay the program. Some other technical issues might also arise due to lack of specialized facilities required for this kind of job. Overall I believe it is better that MLU be carried out in USA.

These overhauls shall bring F-16's to block 52 standard at the best not beyond that. UAE presently is the only user of Block-60 and they have funded the R&D work of the radar used in that version. USA can not sell that radar to a third country without the approval of the UAE government.

F-16 block 52 would be better than the present JF-17 therefore no need to incorporate JF-17 things in F-16.

Developing AWACS is not easy and involves close to billion dollar investment. It is not justified to initiate billion dollar R&D project when you can buy the plane for almost same price. Generating such kind of budget is also a problem.

 

[Nishan_101]

I don't think upgrading F-16's at Kamra would reduce cost as is generally thought. The reason is that PAF do not have the expertise to carry out upgrade. US engineers and technicians would have to be involved and then the equipment and material required shall have to be transported from US to Pakistan. Frequent travel of US personnel might create some problems as they might refuse to come to Pakistan incase an incident takes place in Pakistan such as bomb blast. Then US government might issue travel warnings and this might delay the program. Some other technical issues might also arise due to lack of specialized facilities required for this kind of job. Overall I believe it is better that MLU be carried out in USA.

These overhauls shall bring F-16's to block 52 standard at the best not beyond that. UAE presently is the only user of Block-60 and they have funded the R&D work of the radar used in that version. USA can not sell that radar to a third country without the approval of the UAE government.

F-16 block 52 would be better than the present JF-17 therefore no need to incorporate JF-17 things in F-16.

Developing AWACS is not easy and involves close to billion dollar investment. It is not justified to initiate billion dollar R&D project when you can buy the plane for almost same price. Generating such kind of budget is also a problem.

Salam, I don't want 2 say that bcoz i read that TAI was doing MLU in turkey that's why i proposed so and JF-17's avionics which PAF is going to make is in league of TYphoon and Rafael as well as Super Grippen Ok also PAC should also take some knowlege about TAI that if they have some tech more advance in any terms they could get it in JF-17 avionics which they will produce it from 2011. Get some knowlege.Also they should concentrate on developing an aircraft like AEW&C (balance beam & rotordome) and AEW/ELINT on there own or taking Y-8 as an aircraft rather working with chinese which commited in 06 no i think no progress but if there is something stop it at once. Bcoz after reading about Saab-2000 Family AEW&C,SIGSTAR & MAP they should go for it increase there orders for Saab-2000 AEW&C from 6-7 to about 12+ don't go for outdated E-2C with lastest upgrade they won't be very lethal, Saab-2000 MAP about 10+ MAP don't get rmaing 6 P-3C and sell 4 of P-3C and also Saab-2000 SIGSTAR about 6+ and take out all ECM/ELINT from 2-3 D/a-20's let them serve as an transport aircraft as it is doing for PM's and other GOV persons. SAAB-2000 FAMILY work to gather this is quite especial and they are quite economical in terms of two turbo-props which gives enormous efficiency.
But they should concentrate onthings like Air-Defence system instead go with china they do so even the west would help them as in china case they won't so it would be so lethal and also for smart bombs also for which i would give the details later.

 

[fatman17]

Turkey to upgrade Pakistani F-16s

August 8, 2008 (by Asif Shamim) - After the US began easing sanctions against Pakistan, Turkey will help by assisting in the upgrade of the air forces F-16 Fighting Falcons.

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) will upgrade 36 of Pakistan's block 15 A/B aircraft. The jets will receive a mid-life upgrade (MLU) that primarily involves replacement of avionics and structural modifications bringing them close to block 40 standards.

TAI was selected in favour of Belgium's SABCA and Netherland's Fokker who were also bidding for the contracted work. The upgrades have been given the green light by the US.

Under the deal, two or three Pakistani F-16s are expected to be upgraded at the TAI facilities in Turkey, while the rest will be upgraded in Pakistan, either at the Sargodha base or at the Pakistani Aeronautical complex, Kamra.

F-16.net :: The Ultimate F-16 Reference

i believe the balance 12 will be upgraded / MLUed in the US.

 

[blain2]

Why do you rule out PAC for the MLUs? We already did the Falcon Star/UP structural upgrades on our F-16s which is essentially what happens during the MLU. So the structural stuff has been taken care of in Pakistan for our original 32, I do not think the remaining 12 would be that big of a challenge for the PAC to undertake..avionics upgrade is something that Pakistan can get the assistance of TAI on. I think that is how we will do these. I do not think PAF is in the mood to leave its aircraft in the US hands for such long periods of time.

 

[fatman17]

Why do you rule out PAC for the MLUs? We already did the Falcon Star/UP structural upgrades on our F-16s which is essentially what happens during the MLU. So the structural stuff has been taken care of in Pakistan for our original 32, I do not think the remaining 12 would be that big of a challenge for the PAC to undertake..avionics upgrade is something that Pakistan can get the assistance of TAI on. I think that is how we will do these. I do not think PAF is in the mood to leave its aircraft in the US hands for such long periods of time.

sounds logical to me - i think what they might be doing is providing exposure/experience of MLU to the PAF engineers and technicians in both the US and Turkey.

 

[blain2]

sounds logical to me - i think what they might be doing is providing exposure/experience of MLU to the PAF engineers and technicians in both the US and Turkey.

Sir, come to think of it, if MLU kits are available and there is guidance from TAI, I think PAC can definitely do the job. I think despite the challenges with the MLU, PAF would not like anything better than the F-16s staying at home, MLU kits in Pakistan and Turkish/American assistance in getting this thing going.