Turkey’s S-400 vs F-35 dilemma in 2019

[ÇölKaplanı]

ÇölKaplanı bro I'm not saying S-400 is a wunderwaffe, far from it. It was simply a geopolitical necessity to acquire. Up above I simply gave an example to how even the AMERICANS are saying what the F-35 really is. The link I shared is one of many such criticisms arising from US public towards this ridiculously expensive and underperforming program. F-35 really is an overpriced airplane and after all these years STILL suffers from technical problems. Just a couple months ago a report came out stating it has 900+ unpatched software bugs. Features that make it "a technological wonder" (???) also make it fundamentally flawed and vulnerable to cyber attacks. For the money we'd spend on 100-120 F-35s, we can fully finance the development of our own TF-X MMU with features matching and even exceeding that of the F-35 with a lot of money to spare.

Don't believe me?

Fine. Listen to this guy, Pierre Sprey, a Yale graduated aerospace engineer who worked at Grumman AIrcraft and the Pentagon and helped design the F-16 and A-10 fighters. He basically bitch slaps the F-35, drags it through trash and then slam dunks it into a bucket of shit.

I think you got me wrong when I said talking shit. Brother, those trillions of flaws and bugs that you mention are not an obstacle on F-35's combat readiness and performance. F-35 is ridiculously expensive because it is pushing the limits of technology. It is ridiculously expensive because it brings such capabilities that no other plane has in the World right now. Think about it; both the Russians and the Chinese have been working their *** off for years to have these capabilities on their planes but still they're far from it. As I said, neither S-400 nor F-35 is a wunderwaffe. But please don't talk bad about a plane just because we can't have them. I am not a fan of F-35 too, but we should be honest. If we had a chance to get the F-35s, everyone here would praise them. We had to make a choice and we decided to go with S-400s. Ben de F-35'e öyle ahım şahım bayılmıyorum ama bu kadar da gömülmez ki be abi. Yiğidin hakkını yiğide verin arkadaşlar. Biz amatör savunma takipçileri bile bu uçağın problemli olduğunu görebiliyorsak acaba neden bu uçağı alabilmek için sırada bekleyen onlarca ülke göremiyor acaba?

 

[Pax Ottomana]

I think you got me wrong when I said talking shit. Brother, those trillions of flaws and bugs that you mention are not an obstacle on F-35's combat readiness and performance. F-35 is ridiculously expensive because it is pushing the limits of technology. It is ridiculously expensive because it brings such capabilities that no other plane has in the World right now. Think about it; both the Russians and the Chinese have been working their *** off for years to have these capabilities on their planes but still they're far from it. As I said, neither S-400 nor F-35 is a wunderwaffe. But please don't talk bad about a plane just because we can't have them. I am not a fan of F-35 too, but we should be honest. If we had a chance to get the F-35s, everyone here would praise them. We had to make a choice and we decided to go with S-400s.

Brother, I respect your opinion but please watch these two videos. That's all I'm asking.

First video is old but it's by the designer of F-16 and A-10. The second video is by VOX explaining the corrupt roots of the F-35 program and how it needs to LIE in order to succeed.

Please watch them and then keep your opinion if you'd like. Thanks.

Biz amatör savunma takipçileri bile bu uçağın problemli olduğunu görebiliyorsak acaba neden bu uçağı alabilmek için sırada bekleyen onlarca ülke göremiyor acaba?

They do see the problems. Unfortunately, people don't decide on defense purchases. Politicians and generals do. And they decide on the F-35 for two main reasons:

• 1. Corruption
• 2. Geopolitical pressures and lack of another option

Turkey was LUCKY to have been ousted from the program. You may not see this now, but you will in a few years as the mud in the water clears away.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Kardeşim o kaynak olarak gösterdiğin Vox bütün Suriye harekatlarında aleyhimize propaganda yapanların başında geliyordu farkındasın değil mi? Zaten herkes Vox'a Amerikan RT veya Sputnik gözüyle bakıyor Bana katılmayabilirsin ama öyle bir iki kişinin dediklerine göre de ben düşüncemi şekillendirmem, çoğunluğa bakarım. Madem dediğiniz gibi çöp ve müttefiklerden para koparmak için yapılmış bir uçak, neden Amerika buna trilyonlarını harcadı ve 3000 küsür sipariş verdi? Neden yıllarını döktü? Neden onlarca ülke bunu alabilmek için Amerikanın kapısında yatıyor? Biliyorum yanlış anlaşılıyorum ve beni F-35'ci sanıyorsunuz ama bir uçak bu kadar da gömülmez ki be abi.

Brother, that's because they're spending the money they're printing themselves. You clearly don't know how the US military industrial complex works.

How they can spend so much money for such a lemon of an aircraft? Let me tell you how... Because there's no federal accountability whatsoever. US Congress and the President approve pretty much whatever budget the Pentagon requests, no questions asked.

Did you know that the Pentagon cannot account for $21 TRILLION of US taxpayer money and no one cares about it?

See: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlik...am-cant-account-for-21-trillion/#2b26153e7644

Please do some research about the level of corruption in the US politics and military before making assumptions about F-35's capabilities. Please!

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Abi işin parayla felan alakası yok onu demiyorum ben. Herifler yıllarını, emeklerini döktü bu uçağa. Adamlar neden hava kuvvetlerini F-35'in üzerine inşaa ediyor, neden Rus ve Çinliler afedersiniz senelerdir aynı kapasite için kıçlarını yırtıyorlar? Yok bütçe, yok yolsuzluk, yok sınırsız para basma ile olmaz o işler. Adamlar ordusunu, savunmasını o uçağın üzerine kuruyor, neden acaba diye hiç kafa yordunuz mu? Demek ki o kadar da kötü ve boş bir uçak değil bu. Bütün olay burada bitiyor aslında. Sen diyorsun ki sınırsız para basma, yolsuzluk, şu bu; ben diyorum ki dediğiniz kadar da kötü bir uçak değil. Olay burada bitiyor.
Not: Silinmesin bunlar Pakistanlılar da konu ile alakalı olduğu sürece İngilizce olmayan cevapları silmiyor.

Brother, I've lived in the US for 20 years. I know this country to the bone, inside out. What's your experience level with these "adamlar"?

US is not dependent on the F-35. If you remove all the F-35s today, USAF would still be more powerful than the next couple dozen countries combined. US is producing other fighters (such as F-16) and investing heavily in fighter UCAVs (like X-47).

I don't know why you're so obsessed with the F-35, but I feel obligated to tell you that it's based on a set of false premises. I can only share with you what I know. I can't force you to believe it. So I'm not going to argue this point with you any longer. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

I don't know why you're so obsessed with the F-35

I'm not obsessed with the F-35, From time-to-time, when something is criticized heavily without proper answers, I feel the need to defend them. When someone else is criticizing the S-400s without proper answers too, I will do the same. I've already told that I am not a fan of F-35 too, but you guys should be realistic.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

I'm not obsessed with the F-35, From time-to-time, when something is criticized heavily without proper answers, I feel the need to defend them. When someone else is criticizing the S-400s without proper answers too, I will do the same. I've already told that I am not a fan of F-35 too, but you guys should be realistic.

The Pentagon cannot account for $21 billion USD of American taxpayer money. It's all LOST. Gone! You can verify this with a simple Google search. That's how irresponsibly they spend money in American government. Their purchase decisions make no sense whatsoever other than enriching US defense companies. Again, that's 21 TRILLION with the letter T, not b as in billion. There's EPIC corruption in the US. Worst in the history of mankind. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know what will. So I'm not going to waste any more of my (or your) time. Wish you a great day.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

Brother, I've lived in the US for 20 years. I know this country to the bone, inside out. What's your experience level with these "adamlar"?

US is not dependent on the F-35. If you remove all the F-35s today, USAF would still be more powerful than the next couple dozen countries combined. US is producing other fighters (such as F-16) and investing heavily in fighter UCAVs (like X-47).

I don't know why you're so obsessed with the F-35, but I feel obligated to tell you that it's based on a set of false premises. I can only share with you what I know. I can't force you to believe it. So I'm not going to argue this point with you any longer. Let's agree to disagree.

Let's say your claims are true. How much money do you think they would get from selling it to all the countries in the Earth? Half a trillion at best. How much did they spend? Couple of trillions and some decades, they also built and planned their airforce and military on F-35. Just use your head, you'll see what I'm trying to say. F-35 is not as crappy as you guys may believe so.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

You still don't understand. USAF isn't buying F-35 because it's good. They're buying it to siphon money into the deep pockets of Lockheed Martin. It's a ponzi scheme. USAF has TONS of other assets to safeguard American skies (F-22 being one of them). It is by no means dependent on the F-35 and it won't be.

Listen to the Canadians talking about it. They saw through America's BULLSHIT and walked away from the project.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

You still don't understand.

Maybe you don't understand? Anyway brother, I'm out of time for now but I'd like to discuss this topic with you later on. Wish you a good day.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Fair enough. As a departing gift, this is the latest on the F-35 as of TODAY. It still has HUNDREDS of unfixed issues.

https://www.pogo.org/investigation/2020/03/f-35-design-flaws-mounting-new-document-shows/

Even this is by design. They keep these issues with the plane OPEN so that they can continue to siphon money into "fixing" them without end. F-35 was designed to rip off its customers, including the US taxpayers.

 

[UkroTurk]

 

[AerospaceTech]

For Turkish member;

Before criticizing the F-35 we should listen to some experts such as Arda Mevlutoglu

 

[Oublious]

For Turkish member;

Before criticizing the F-35 we should listen to some experts such as Arda Mevlutoglu

For people who are crying about what we lost, wtf are you going to do when we face American interests against our? You did see it, F35 mean 100% American dependent. You can stock your parts but when the stock is finished what then?

Today we are blocked by Canada, for a simple operation in Syria, what if American decide to help Greece EEZ against us? So what is your next move, tell us and enlight us. What will be big problem in long term?

 

[AerospaceTech]

For people who are crying about what we lost, wtf are you going to do when we face American interests against our? You did see it, F35 mean 100% American dependent. You can stock your parts but when the stock is finished what then?

Today we are blocked by Canada, for a simple operation in Syria, what if American decide to help Greece EEZ against us? So what is your next move, tell us and enlight us. What will be big problem in long term?

If your words targeting me, you should have known that my post was about the aircraft not the politics.
I always suggest and support local projects. F-35 is not a bad aircraft but that's the one point. The US`s management level politics and its effects are other points.

 

[Oublious]

If your words targeting me, you should have known that my post was about the aircraft not the politics.
I always suggest and support local projects. F-35 is not a bad aircraft but that's the one point. The US`s management level politics and its effects are other points.

That one point is againg the point they use when they force you to do. Other then that it is a good fighter with strings from politics.