Turkey’s S-400 vs F-35 dilemma in 2019

[Bismarck]

If US cancels F-35 project for Turkey, they will surely push the brits to stop their participation to the TFX program IMO, and than what?

Brits are stubborns. I have my doubts.

 

[MMM-E]

If US cancel F-35 delivery, Turkey must speed up TFX project. This is only possible with more technical, economic and human resources support. Question is, where will you get all this support.

only in 5 years Turkey has developed T-129 Attack Helicopter with Italy and T-129 is using Turkish systems
Now Turkey develops 100% indigenous ATAK-II heavy class Attack Helicopter with TEI turboshaft gas turbine engine

if the US block sale of F35 to Turkey , then Turkey can develop Fighter Jet with Russia based on SU-57 using Turkish systems

Russians said that Russia is ready to develop Fighter Jets with Turkey
and in 3 years Russia-Turkey together can develop Fighter Jet based on SU-57 with Turkish systems

Russians are ready



and Turkey its own can develop TF-X and Turbofan engine , but Turkey needs 10-15 years

 

[GlobalMillitary96]

Israel is happy because we aren't getting F-35s and they are

Great.

America props up YPG on our border and we just watch them and now they're giving Israel 30 F-35s

Our enemies are getting stronger everyday...

S-400 is nice however F-35 could have been a game changer in our offensive capabilities. We need competent leadership ASAP.



https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-...35-Israel-keeps-its-aerial-superiority-585634

 

[TheMightyBender]

“I am very confident in the Patriot proposal that we’ve delivered to Turkey, its availability, its pricing, and very importantly, the industrial participation that comes along with the Patriot system,” - Patrick Shanahan, acting defense secretary of the US

I think this is a probable way in which things may play out:
- the US offers the patriots for cheaper together with some ToT
- Turkey “delays” buying the S-400 system (albeit indefinitely)
- Turkey instead opts for the Patriot system with reduced price and better ToT
- the F-35 program proceeds as planned

This arrangement will be a good compromise on both sides and both sides can hail it as a win for themselves.

For the US this line of action will be translated as “we forced Turkey to our will”

In Turkey this will be hailed as Turkey forcing the US to give Turkey ToT on advanced air defence systems which it needs a lot (and which it was not getting from Russia anyways)

The patriot deal will be hailed as much better in Turkey because it includes ToT and it is reasonably priced

 

[MKALE1]

What kind of beneficial you are seeking from F35 under control of US. Anytime she wants, it is shut down. Just fetoists and some pkkists want us having F35s. They are trash for us.

 

[MMM-E]

Israel is happy because we aren't getting F-35s and they are

Turkey can not use American control F-35 against Israel

btw Turkey doesnt need F35 to hit targets in Israel .......thanks to Turkish missile technology SOM--BORA--GEZGIN to engage on targets in Israel from the air,land and sea

better to have S400,HISAR,SIPER Air Defense Systems and TF-2000 class AAW Destroyers to counter Israeli F-35s

 

[GlobalMillitary96]

What kind of beneficial you are seeking from F35 under control of US. Anytime she wants, it is shut down. Just fetoists and some pkkists want us having F35. They are trash for us.

Dude do you really think that there is a kill-switch? I highly doubt that lol, if you believe in that you probably believe in a lot of other ridiculous things. If we actually received them the worst thing that could happen is them refusing to give spare parts.

I think you have lost your mind.

Turkey can not use American control F-35 against Israel

btw Turkey doesnt need F35 to hit targets in Israel .......thanks to Turkish missile technology SOM--BORA--GEZGIN to engage on targets in Israel from the air,land and sea

better to have S400,HISAR,SIPER Air Defense Systems and TF-2000 AAW Destroyers to counter Israeli F-35s

It has nothing to do with hitting Israel. That's just a dream for now. The dilemma is how are we going to replace the stealth air-to-ground quick strike capabilities in the next 5 years? There really isn't a lot of other options.

• Drones such as Akinci and Anka 2 and other upcoming products - Can be stealth (though doesn't matter as much as there is no pilot to lose) and can provide air-to-ground capabilities but is nowhere near as quick as a jet
• Hurjet - As far as we know it is not stealth. It will obviously allow for quick reaction times and will probably have decent air-to-ground capabilities.
• SU-57 - will provide all three attributes but it isn't specifically designed to be a ground attack aircraft.

The two things I will miss about the F-35 is the fact that it is like a flying computer; giving the pilot a lot of advantages over previous aircraft in terms of ease of use. As well as the fact that we ordered 32 F-35B variants for our 2 LHDs (which is why we kept the ski-jumps). Now we will lack the capability to launch air operations in remote areas (well we can with helicopters I guess).

Anyone celebrating this madness and trying to say that it is all good is fooling themselves. I firmly think that we SHOULD get S-400s and SU-57s however not at the cost of the F-35.

 

[MMM-E]

The two things I will miss about the F-35 is the fact that it is like a flying computer; giving the pilot a lot of advantages over previous aircraft in terms of ease of use. As well as the fact that we ordered 32 F-35B variants for our 2 LHDs (which is why we kept the ski-jumps). Now we will lack the capability to launch air operations in remote areas (well we can with helicopters I guess).

Anyone celebrating this madness and trying to say that it is all good is fooling themselves. I firmly think that we SHOULD get S-400s and SU-57s however not at the cost of the F-35.

Problem is not F35

US plays F-35 card against S-400 deal to ask Turkey for endless concessions

The problems between Turkey and the US are multilayered and very complicated
The S-400 just turned into a filter pushing other problems to the back burner

There are serious confrontation between Turkey and the US in northern Syria ( the US support PKK/YPG terrorists who killed over 40.000 innocent people in Turkey to destroy Turkey's territorial integrity )

and the US uses FETO terrorist organization since 2013 to destroy ERDOGAN and future of Turkish people
also the US,Israel,Greece,Egypt were allies against Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean


İf Turkey cancel S400 deal with Russia then the problems will be solved between the US and Turkey ? never
even Turkey will lose Russia and S400 , but still the US will continue working to destroy Turkey


forget about F35 and the US ..... Our enemies are the US and Israel ( and never forget about Iran's F-14 story )

both the US and Israel declared war on Iraq,Syria,Turkey and Iran in 1991
( Iraq is gone , Syria is almost gone but Turkey blocked the US-Israel backed PKK/YPG terror corridor ) the next target will be Turkey

and Turks can not protect themselves from the US-Israel and their puppets Egypt,Greece,etc with American control weapons

 

[maximuswarrior]

1. Everbody who thinks Russia or China are more reliable than the US lost his mind, they are all the same.
2. If TR leaves the JSF project, Turkish companies will feel the financial impact, that's for sure.
---
I personally don't see any chance that Turkey will go or even get modern Russian/Chinese Aircrafts, we have totally different standarts let alone their approval in integration of our own systems.
Did you guys really think that turning a Russian standart SU-57 to Turkish standarts is cheap and that easy?
SU-57 or J-31 aren't even in serial production, it would take them YEARS until they could deliver.

To the dilemma... with serious pressure from Turkey the US could/would agree only if we also buy Patriots for a ridicolous price.

There is probably only one reliable supplier at the moment and that is China.

I agree that all suppliers of hardware use blackmail and arm twisting tactics.

The Europeans weren’t crazy when they built the EF. Turkey must also setup some sort of consortium and produce a home grown fighter. Easier said than done, but you have to start somewhere. Turkey has learnt a lot by being part of the F-35 project. They can put this knowledge to good use.

On a different note, Turkey is very important for the US. The US cannot afford to piss off the Turks. The F-35 saga is very minute in comparison. Eventually I think Turkey will get the F-35. The Americans are renowned for being jerks. Currently Turkey is finding out the hard way how much of a jerk Uncle Sam can be.

 

[Timur]

What I cannot understand is why our government is so stupid.. Key issues are engines we should have reverse engineered f 16 engines long time ago also tank engines should have been reverse engineered and kept as knowledge do you really need slaps on your mothers face to stand up and to do something

I always said better earn your own money and don't rely on your friends or your father the time will come that you need to go your own path or do you wanna beg daddy to pay your wedding

 

[Bismarck]

Problem is not F35

US plays F-35 card against S-400 deal to ask Turkey for endless concessions

The problems between Turkey and the US are multilayered and very complicated
The S-400 just turned into a filter pushing other problems to the back burner

There are serious confrontation between Turkey and the US in northern Syria ( the US support PKK/YPG terrorists who killed over 40.000 innocent people in Turkey to destroy Turkey's territorial integrity )

and the US uses FETO terrorist organization since 2013 to destroy ERDOGAN and future of Turkish people
also the US,Israel,Greece,Egypt were allies against Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean


İf Turkey cancel S400 deal with Russia then the problems will be solved between the US and Turkey ? never
even Turkey will lose Russia and S400 , but still the US will continue working to destroy Turkey


forget about F35 and the US ..... Our enemies are the US and Israel ( and never forget about Iran's F-14 story )

both the US and Israel declared war on Iraq,Syria,Turkey and Iran in 1991
( Iraq is gone , Syria is almost gone but Turkey blocked the US-Israel backed PKK/YPG terror corridor ) the next target will be Turkey

and Turks can not protect themselves from the US-Israel and their puppets Egypt,Greece,etc with American control weapons

A little bit OT, but the number is much higher. And don't forget, we not talk about innocent Turkish people only. That's the number of the whole causality in that conflict.

Bakan Çavuşoğlu'ndan S-400 açıklaması

Dışişleri Bakanı Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, Washington'da yaptığı konuşmada, "S-400'ler bitmiş bir anlaşmadır, bundan geri adım atmayacağız. ABD kısa süre önce bir Patriot önerisi yaptı ancak satış olacağının garantisi bulunmuyor. ABD Başkanı Donald Trump, Cumhurbaşkanı Recep Tayyip Erdoğan ile yaptığı yakın zamandaki bir telefon görüşmesinde, ABD'nin, Patriot'ları Türkiye'ye satmamasının bir hata olduğunu kabul etti. NATO Genel Sekreteri (Stoltenberg) herhangi bir üye ülkenin, herhangi bir ülkeden herhangi bir sistem alabileceğini açık bir şekilde ifade etti. (S-400'ler) Bu sistem F-35 dahil NATO sistemlerini düşman olarak görmeyecektir. (F-35 programı) ABD'nin Türkiye dahil NATO müttefiklerine yaptığı diğer askeri satışlar gibi bir şey değildir. Biz programın parçasıyız. Bu kadar basit olmamalıdır" ifadelerini kullandı

https://www.haberturk.com/bakan-cavusoglu-ndan-s-400-aciklamasi-2423020

In English please.

 

[Killuminati]

A little bit OT, but the number is much higher. And don't forget, we not talk about innocent Turkish people only. That's the number of the whole causality in that conflict.



In English please.

Cavusoglu says that Turkey will not cancel a deal thats already done.

This is also quite logical. Turkey has its arguments while the VS is still acting as a boss where countries must obey to. This has nothing to do with alliance. Allies are in favor of protecting each other's interests. Very often, Turkey has rightly stated that Turkish airspace has a safety leak. Turkey has often asked U.S for its patriot systems and the US has refused this request.

The US has admitted its mistake but this after Turkey has already signed a deal with Russia. It is not appropriate for a strong state like Turkey to make a u-turn because another is pointing the finger and threatening with F-35.

The only side that loses is the US. Turkey is the only powerhouse in that region that can deliver strategic results for superpowers. Anyone who ignores or opposes Turkey will never rule in that region.

The dubious behavior of the US ensures that Turkey glides towards China. This while China is the biggest opponent of the US.

F35 cannot be used as blackmail. Turkey has put a lot of energy into the project.

The acts of the US simply does not match the characteristics that an ally must have.

 

[OldTwilight]

What I cannot understand is why our government is so stupid.. Key issues are engines we should have reverse engineered f 16 engines long time ago also tank engines should have been reverse engineered and kept as knowledge do you really need slaps on your mothers face to stand up and to do something

I always said better earn your own money and don't rely on your friends or your father the time will come that you need to go your own path or do you wanna beg daddy to pay your wedding

Jet engine can not be reverse engineered ... You should fully understand how it work and you simply cannot guess the production procedure by looking at final product .... devils is the details ...

China , India and in some extends Iran are trying in this field and there is not so much fruits .... although we have budget shortage and very serious sanction ....

 

[Bismarck]

Turkey will receive S-400. Who should be worried more. USA or Russia ? https://www.dailysabah.com/politics...ied-about-sending-s-400-to-nato-member-turkey

 

[TheMightyBender]

Turkey to look for alternatives if US doesn't deliver F-35s
ANKARA

Turkey's foreign minister says his country could look "elsewhere" if the U.S. doesn't deliver F-35 fighter jets.

Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu also said in an interview with private NTV television on April 10 that Turkey could consider acquiring more Russian-made S-400s or other systems to meet urgent needs if it can't purchase U.S. Patriot systems.

Turkey's moves to buy the Russian S-400 technology have heightened tensions with Washington.

Çavuşoğlu said: "If F-35s are not delivered, I would be placed in a position to buy the planes I need elsewhere."

He added that a new U.S. offer to sell Patriots was "more rational" than a previous offer, but still didn't meet Turkey's expectations.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov later on April 10 said Russia was "open" to a second purchase.

"Russia has the relevant capabilities, technological skills," he said.

"And of course Russia seeks to expand military and technical cooperation. It's a completely normal process."