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Turkey’s S-400 vs F-35 dilemma in 2019

F-35 vs S-400; If Turkey had to choose one, which one should it choose?

  • F-35

  • S-400


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A U.S. Fighter Jet or a Russian Missile System. Not Both.
April 9, 2019
If Turkey accepts delivery of a Russian S-400 missile system, sanctions will be required by American law.

By Jim Inhofe, Jack Reed, Jim Rischand Bob Menendez

Mr. Inhofe and Mr. Reed are the chairman and ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Mr. Risch and Mr. Menendez are the chairman and ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

09inhofereedrischmenendez1-articleLarge.jpg

A F-35 fighter jet that was destined for Turkey at a ceremony at Lockheed Martin in Forth Worth, Texas, in 2018.Atilgan Ozdil/Anadolu Agency, via Getty Images
By the end of the year, Turkey will have either F-35 advanced fighter aircraft on its soil or a Russian S-400 surface-to-air missile defense system. It will not have both.

The choice made by President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey will have profound consequences for his country’s place in the world, its relationship with the United States and its standing in NATO.

The F-35 program is the world’s largest fifth-generation fighter aircraft program, with more than a trillion dollars in investment from a dozen international partners, including Turkey, and customers. In large part, the ability of the United States and its allies to maintain a military advantage in the skies is riding on the program.

In July 2017, Turkey announced that it would purchase the S-400 surface-to-air missile defense system from Russia. The S-400 is the most advanced system produced to date in Russia’s quest to defeat stealth technology — the system Russia built to shoot down the F-35 fighters.

Turkey’s purchase of the S-400 would be incompatible with its commitments to NATO and reduce its interoperability with allies. Purchasing the S-400 would create an unacceptable risk because its radar system could enable the Russian military to figure out how the F-35 operates. That threat compelled the Pentagon to suspend some activities associated with Turkey’s F-35s last week.

Turkey has legitimate air defense needs. The United States, since 2012, has offered the Patriot air defense system as an alternative to the S-400, but Turkey has rejected that offer. With the S-400 scheduled to arrive in Turkey in July and the F-35s scheduled to arrive in November, it is time for President Erdogan to choose. It is our hope he will choose to abandon the S-400, defend Turkish skies with the Patriot system and save the F-35 arrangement.

If President Erdogan fails to make this choice and accepts delivery of the S-400, sanctions will be imposed as required by United States law under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act. Sanctions will hit Turkey’s economy hard — rattling international markets, scaring away foreign direct investment and crippling Turkey’s aerospace and defense industry.

Further, no F-35s will ever reach Turkish soil. And Turkish participation in the F-35 program, including manufacturing parts, repairing and servicing the fighters, will be terminated, taking Turkish companies out of the manufacturing and supply chain for the program.

We are committed to taking all necessary legislative action to ensure this is the case. Turkey is an important partner in the F-35 program, but it is not irreplaceable.

Abandoning the F-35 will have severe consequences for Ankara. Turkey has already invested more than $1.25 billion in the F-35 program, and that will be squandered. It will not receive the more than 100 F-35s it planned to purchase, and it will be forced to settle for a less-capable fighter aircraft that will not arrive for many years.

Turkish companies that produce parts for the F-35 will see their orders dry up completely. The country’s F-35 engine maintenance, repair, overhaul and upgrade facility will see all its work go to other facilities in Europe. President Erdogan’s hope to make the Turkish defense industry a pillar of economic growth for the future will be dashed.

We do not seek to harm our Turkish friends. Indeed, we hope it will be possible to enhance American-Turkish cooperation on Syria, the Black Sea, counterterrorism and other issues of mutual concern. We seek only to protect the F-35 program and the capabilities of the NATO alliance, including allies like Turkey.

We understand that Turkey has a relationship of necessity with Russia — on Syria, energy, agriculture, tourism and more. If President Erdogan walks away from the S-400, Mr. Putin may retaliate in one or more of these areas. In that unfortunate event, we commit to do all we can to assist Turkey as it weathers the storm.

Paying tribute to the Kremlin with the purchase of the S-400 is not in Turkey’s interests. Mr. Putin is not an ally of Turkey any more than the Soviets or the czars. His aggression in Georgia, Ukraine and Syria has made Turkey less safe. Now Mr. Putin is trying to divide Turkey from the West with the S-400s.

If he succeeds, what little regard he has for Turkey’s interests will shrink further. The more isolated Turkey is from its allies, the more power Mr. Putin will have in the relationship: Russia does what it can, Turkey suffers what it must.

Mr. Putin fears and respects a Turkey strategically anchored in the West and committed to NATO. We hope President Erdogan will choose that future for Turkey by rejecting Mr. Putin’s divisive S-400 ploy, meeting its air defense requirement with the Patriot system and moving forward as a critical partner in the F-35 program.

Jim Inhofe is a Republican Senator from Oklahoma. Jack Reed is a Democratic Senator from Rhode Island. Jim Risch is a Republican Senator from Idaho. Bob Menendez is a Democratic Senator from New Jersey.

The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: letters@nytimes.com.

Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook, Twitter (@NYTopinion) and Instagram.
 
Maybe, inadvertently, the US is doing Turkey a favor by not selling a sub-par product.

***

Japan’s F-35 fighter jet crash blow to US marketing plan: experts

By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/4/10

Buyers may reconsider over reliability of fighter jet: expert

5f9efe9d-4d7d-4a6a-9ff1-e75d40893f53.jpeg

File photo taken May 28, 2018, shows a Japanese F-35A fighter jet flying over the city of Misawa, Aomori Prefecture. The same plane crashed during an exercise on April 9, 2019. Photo: IC

The US' plan to market its advanced F-35 stealth fighter jet in the Asia-Pacific region and even around the world could suffer a blow after Japan's Defense Ministry announced on Wednesday that a Japanese F-35A crashed, said military experts.

A Lockheed Martin F-35A of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force (ASDF) disappeared off the radar in northern Japan during a Tuesday evening drill. Parts from the warplane's tail fins were later discovered at sea before Japan's Defense Ministry confirmed the crash on Wednesday morning, Japan's public broadcaster NHK reported Wednesday.

The pilot is still missing.

This is the first time an F-35A, the standard air force version of the F-35, has crashed since an F-35B, the short takeoff and vertical landing version, crashed in the US in September 2018, Reuters reported.

Japan's 12 remaining F-35As are now grounded, as search operations for the pilot and investigations into the cause of crash are continuing, the NHK report said.

Costing more than $90 million each, the F-35As began service in Japan in January 2018 and the country's F-35A squadron was just formed this March, Japan's Kyodo News reported.

Not only Japan, the seller of the aircraft - the US, will also be seriously affected by the crash, Chinese experts said.

Some customers were already hesitant about F-35 purchases because of its high price, and since the crash, buyers may reconsider how many they should buy or whether they should buy any at all, Fu Qianshao, a Chinese air defense expert, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

Some countries were forced to buy the F-35 because it was the only stealth fighter available on the market, Fu said.

Wei Dongxu, a Beijing-based military analyst, told the Global Times on Wednesday that the entire international project for the F-35 could suffer a blow.

The crashed F-35A is the bestselling version of the F-35 on the international market, and if the crash is caused by technical issues or design flaws, all other countries that bought the aircraft will have to conduct thorough checks, and the planes may be grounded or put on restricted operations, which will affect their combat capability, Wei said.

Many US allies are involved in the manufacture of the fighter jet, and such an incident might raise questions about the reliability of these internationally built parts, Wei said, noting that the US might purchase less of these parts and apply stricter standards when building production lines in other countries.

Some Western reports have speculated that China or Russia could locate some of the wreckage first, which could cause major security problems for the US. But that situation is very unlikely, Chinese experts said.

The warplane is likely to have crashed very near to Japan, which makes a Chinese or Russian search difficult, Wei said, with Fu noting that Japan and the US will make every effort to stop anyone from approaching the crash site.

The US' deployment and sales of F-35 fighters to its allies in the Asia-Pacific region were beginning to pose challenges to China's air defense, Chinese analysts said. But with or without the crash incident, it is not a significant challenge thanks to China's own J-20 stealth fighter jets, they said.

In the Asia-Pacific region, Japan, South Korea and Australia have acquired F-35s, with Singapore also planning to buy.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1145410.shtml
 
A U.S. Fighter Jet or a Russian Missile System. Not Both.
April 9, 2019
If Turkey accepts delivery of a Russian S-400 missile system, sanctions will be required by American law.

By Jim Inhofe, Jack Reed, Jim Rischand Bob Menendez

Mr. Inhofe and Mr. Reed are the chairman and ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Mr. Risch and Mr. Menendez are the chairman and ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

09inhofereedrischmenendez1-articleLarge.jpg

A F-35 fighter jet that was destined for Turkey at a ceremony at Lockheed Martin in Forth Worth, Texas, in 2018.Atilgan Ozdil/Anadolu Agency, via Getty Images
By the end of the year, Turkey will have either F-35 advanced fighter aircraft on its soil or a Russian S-400 surface-to-air missile defense system. It will not have both.

The choice made by President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey will have profound consequences for his country’s place in the world, its relationship with the United States and its standing in NATO.

The F-35 program is the world’s largest fifth-generation fighter aircraft program, with more than a trillion dollars in investment from a dozen international partners, including Turkey, and customers. In large part, the ability of the United States and its allies to maintain a military advantage in the skies is riding on the program.

In July 2017, Turkey announced that it would purchase the S-400 surface-to-air missile defense system from Russia. The S-400 is the most advanced system produced to date in Russia’s quest to defeat stealth technology — the system Russia built to shoot down the F-35 fighters.

Turkey’s purchase of the S-400 would be incompatible with its commitments to NATO and reduce its interoperability with allies. Purchasing the S-400 would create an unacceptable risk because its radar system could enable the Russian military to figure out how the F-35 operates. That threat compelled the Pentagon to suspend some activities associated with Turkey’s F-35s last week.

Turkey has legitimate air defense needs. The United States, since 2012, has offered the Patriot air defense system as an alternative to the S-400, but Turkey has rejected that offer. With the S-400 scheduled to arrive in Turkey in July and the F-35s scheduled to arrive in November, it is time for President Erdogan to choose. It is our hope he will choose to abandon the S-400, defend Turkish skies with the Patriot system and save the F-35 arrangement.

If President Erdogan fails to make this choice and accepts delivery of the S-400, sanctions will be imposed as required by United States law under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act. Sanctions will hit Turkey’s economy hard — rattling international markets, scaring away foreign direct investment and crippling Turkey’s aerospace and defense industry.

Further, no F-35s will ever reach Turkish soil. And Turkish participation in the F-35 program, including manufacturing parts, repairing and servicing the fighters, will be terminated, taking Turkish companies out of the manufacturing and supply chain for the program.

We are committed to taking all necessary legislative action to ensure this is the case. Turkey is an important partner in the F-35 program, but it is not irreplaceable.

Abandoning the F-35 will have severe consequences for Ankara. Turkey has already invested more than $1.25 billion in the F-35 program, and that will be squandered. It will not receive the more than 100 F-35s it planned to purchase, and it will be forced to settle for a less-capable fighter aircraft that will not arrive for many years.

Turkish companies that produce parts for the F-35 will see their orders dry up completely. The country’s F-35 engine maintenance, repair, overhaul and upgrade facility will see all its work go to other facilities in Europe. President Erdogan’s hope to make the Turkish defense industry a pillar of economic growth for the future will be dashed.

We do not seek to harm our Turkish friends. Indeed, we hope it will be possible to enhance American-Turkish cooperation on Syria, the Black Sea, counterterrorism and other issues of mutual concern. We seek only to protect the F-35 program and the capabilities of the NATO alliance, including allies like Turkey.

We understand that Turkey has a relationship of necessity with Russia — on Syria, energy, agriculture, tourism and more. If President Erdogan walks away from the S-400, Mr. Putin may retaliate in one or more of these areas. In that unfortunate event, we commit to do all we can to assist Turkey as it weathers the storm.

Paying tribute to the Kremlin with the purchase of the S-400 is not in Turkey’s interests. Mr. Putin is not an ally of Turkey any more than the Soviets or the czars. His aggression in Georgia, Ukraine and Syria has made Turkey less safe. Now Mr. Putin is trying to divide Turkey from the West with the S-400s.

If he succeeds, what little regard he has for Turkey’s interests will shrink further. The more isolated Turkey is from its allies, the more power Mr. Putin will have in the relationship: Russia does what it can, Turkey suffers what it must.

Mr. Putin fears and respects a Turkey strategically anchored in the West and committed to NATO. We hope President Erdogan will choose that future for Turkey by rejecting Mr. Putin’s divisive S-400 ploy, meeting its air defense requirement with the Patriot system and moving forward as a critical partner in the F-35 program.

Jim Inhofe is a Republican Senator from Oklahoma. Jack Reed is a Democratic Senator from Rhode Island. Jim Risch is a Republican Senator from Idaho. Bob Menendez is a Democratic Senator from New Jersey.

The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: letters@nytimes.com.

Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook, Twitter (@NYTopinion) and Instagram.

What exactly is S400's threat to the F35? I never understood this. If S400 is inoperable with NATO systems then how will it be able to "figure out how the plane operates"?. We even said we would use our own avionics, subsystems, and let the Americans on the ground to inspect the systems themselves. If S400 is connected to NATO systems then I dont see how it will be able to get inside the F35's systems. If F35 is so vulnerable then maybe the Americans should make it better.
 
What exactly is S400's threat to the F35? I never understood this. If S400 is inoperable with NATO systems then how will it be able to "figure out how the plane operates"?. We even said we would use our own avionics, subsystems, and let the Americans on the ground to inspect the systems themselves. If S400 is connected to NATO systems then I dont see how it will be able to get inside the F35's systems. If F35 is so vulnerable then maybe the Americans should make it better.
They are not saying the S-400 will get inside the F-35 (it is not even going to be connected to the NATO architecture). They are saying that the S-400 will be able to closely observe the F-35 from all angles and distances over long periods of time. The S-400 will thus learn what the F-35 looks like on its radar. It will then (supposedly) transfer that information to Russia via bugs that Russia may place in it.
 
Americans and TRUMP should stop being lapdog of Israel , Israel says jump and Americans -TRUMP says how long sir

-- the US support PKK/YPG terrorists to destroy Turkey's territorial integrity for Israeli interests
-- the US support FETO terror organization to destroy Turkish government and Turkish people for Israeli interests
-- the US support Israel-Egypt-Greece alliance to steal gas-oil reserves from the Turks in the Eastern Mediterranean
-- the US attack Turkish Economy and Turkish People since 2013 ...( if not Turkey would have $1,6-1,8 trillion of GDP Nominal today )



be yourself traitor and terrorist supporter country the US .. Turks are not stupid , Turks sees everything

Our so-called NATO allies the US declared war on Turkey via terror organizations and bandit countries in Syria , Iraq , Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean

Turks have right to buy weapons from Russia to protect themselves from the US backed terrorists PKK/YPG , FETO and the US backed bandit countries Israel-Egypt-Greece

also Turkey needs S400 to protect AKKUYU Nuclear Power Plant


Our national security and territorial integrity are million times more important than F-35 and money

btw the US can not block sale of F-35 to Turkey ,,,,,,,, Turkey is not customer ,Turkey is a global partner of F-35 program since 1999

then the US will pay billions of dollars of penaty to Turkey and Turkey will have right to buy Fighter Jets and another weapons from Russia

and not Turkey but the US will lose in Syria , Black Sea and Eastern Mediterranean
 
It seems that the decision making apparatus of Turkey is starting to consider Russian replacements for the F-35 after Erdogan’s latest meeting with Putin. I also suspect Erdogan discussed that matter with Putin personally.
 
It seems that the decision making apparatus of Turkey is starting to consider Russian replacements for the F-35 after Erdogan’s latest meeting with Putin. I also suspect Erdogan discussed that matter with Putin personally.
this does not just implies replacemets but almost a change in our defence doctrine i.e second tier air force & decent SAMs which favours quantity over quality. for me not Russia but national replacements are the way to go even for stop gap requirments.
 
according to Russian Kommersant 11.04.2019

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3939644


Russia and Turkey have one solid arms contract providing for the supply of four S-400 divisions to Ankara in the summer of 2019

S-400 deal, which includes the delivery of various components of the system, 40N6 missiles and the training of Turkish specialists, is estimated at $ 2.5 billion, of which 55% of the cost is covered by Russian credit


Turkey buys 40N6E Missile , destruction range is up to 380 km for aerodynamic targets and up to 15 km for ballistic weapons at an altitude 30 km

Range : 380 km
Altitude : 30 km
Speed : mach 4

main-qimg-7148243ba0e24f43f742be194fc3a694
 
according to Russian Kommersant 11.04.2019

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3939644


Russia and Turkey have one solid arms contract providing for the supply of four S-400 divisions to Ankara in the summer of 2019

S-400 deal, which includes the delivery of various components of the system, 40N6 missiles and the training of Turkish specialists, is estimated at $ 2.5 billion, of which 55% of the cost is covered by Russian credit


Turkey buys 40N6E Missile , destruction range is up to 380 km for aerodynamic targets and up to 15 km for ballistic weapons at an altitude 30 km

Range : 380 km
Altitude : 30 km
Speed : mach 4

main-qimg-7148243ba0e24f43f742be194fc3a694
So, are you getting S400 this summer???
so soon, hard to believe.

Clearly Russians produce best Air defenses and are in the head of Americans.
 
So, are you getting S400 this summer???
so soon, hard to believe.

Clearly Russians produce best Air defenses and are in the head of Americans.

yes Turkey is getting S400s in july 2019 , even maybe earlier
 
yes Turkey is getting S400s in july 2019 , even maybe earlier

IMO , Russia just want to mess up Turkey relation with the west , the moment USA put some sanction on you and you put your pride in the line , they will show their true color ...
 
IMO , Russia just want to mess up Turkey relation with the west , the moment USA put some sanction on you and you put your pride in the line , they will show their true color ...

I don't think so that Russia will compromise as such over its value. Had it been the case, every Russian customer, even though there are few, will feel the same & Russian export target/strategical relations/weaponry will be seeing isolation or no interest to interact. Furthermore, I read that Russia has also offered Turkey with SU-57 Joint Venture which may help to overcome the shortage of F-35 as well.

However, beside weapon comparison and replacement choices; there are certain issues which may or may not affect Turkey-NATO status.
 
the moment USA put some sanction on you and you put your pride in the line , they will show their true color

I remind you that , under a law that TRUMP signed in 2018 any country trading with Russia’s defense sector will face sanctions

now the US put sanction on Russian defense companies
and the US sanctions on Russian military exports can put the brakes on billions of dollars of deals with many countries such as Turkey,India,Egypt,Indonesia,Vietnam, even Qatar,S.Arabia

and Almaz Antey which makes the S-400 and Rosoboronexport which negotiates Russian export deals listed as under sanction


Russians so happy that Turkey is working with Russia and You are talking about they will show their true color

-- PUTIN replaced Ukraine with Turkey for Russia's energy security .. ( Turkstream gas pipeline )
-- Russia invest $22 billion to build the first Nuclear Power Plant in Turkey
-- Russia - Turkey are together working in Syria
-- Russia wants to make Turkey more stronger in the Eastern Mediterranean against the US-the EU-Israel alliance in natural gas race because of Russian national interests

-- Russia so happy for selling weapons to one of the strongest NATO member Turkey ( that will be the prestige and advertising for Russia )


btw Russia is ready to work with Turkey , not only S400 but also SU-57 Fighter Jet , Helicopters and Engines to help Turkey against the US who declared war on Turkey via terror organizations and bandit countries
 
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I remind you that , under a law that TRUMP signed in 2018 any country trading with Russia’s defense sector will face sanctions

now the US put sanction on Russian defense companies
and the US sanctions on Russian military exports can put the brakes on billions of dollars of deals with many countries such as Turkey,India,Egypt,Indonesia,Vietnam, even Qatar,S.Arabia

and Almaz Antey which makes the S-400 and Rosoboronexport which negotiates Russian export deals listed as under sanction


Russians so happy that Turkey is working with Russia and You are talking about they will show their true color

-- PUTIN replaced Ukraine with Turkey for Russia's energy security .. ( Turkstream gas pipeline )
-- Russia invest $22 billion to build the first Nuclear Power Plant in Turkey
-- Russia - Turkey are together working in Syria
-- Russia wants to make Turkey more stronger in the Eastern Mediterranean against the US-the EU-Israel alliance in natural gas race because of Russian national interests

-- Russia so happy for selling weapons to one of the strongest NATO member Turkey ( that will be the prestige and advertising for Russia )


btw Russia is ready to work with Turkey , not only S400 but also SU-57 Fighter Jet , Helicopters and Engines to help Turkey against the US who declared war on Turkey via terror organizations and bandit countries
And Americans will fire back for sure.
They can't tolerate Turkey do something that they don't like and Russia know this.(They can't tolerate independent Turkey)
I hope you understand the path, you are entering.
If you buy S400 this summer, that will be very hot summer for US/Turkey relation.
 

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