Featured Turkey’s National Fighter, TFX/MMU, will roll out in 18 March 2023

[Ark_Angel]

TAI et. al say the TFX prototype will use the GE F110, but TR Motor is tasked with developing a comparable engine in parallel. I reckon the TFX will use the F110 well into SBP and Block-I, but seeing the ambition and -- to be frank, shockingly good competency -- of the Turks, their in-house engine might make it to Block-II.

Yes, by going for a F110-class engine, the Turks did make it more difficult to source a non-ITAR alternative (e.g., you have EJ200, RD-93MA, etc, in the 80-90 kN range). However, the TFX is also a bigger fighter than most next-generation options and, as a result, may make for a good strike fighter.

Granted, the PAF would likely have to wait for the TR Motor variant (which I think would come at the Block-II or Block-III stage of the TFX). However, the TFX definitely makes its case for an ideal successor to the F-16s and the Mirage ROSE-I/II/III. You can get the one fighter to form your offensive edge, basically.

On the other hand, this opens the space up for a smaller complement. I know TAI is working on the Hürjet, which can technically serve as a lightweight fighter. However, I wonder if they can extend the work going into its FCS and other inputs into a light/medium-weight next-gen fighter (in the size of the Gripen E/F).

True but that Timeline then reaches 2035. Imagine A new A/C by 2035 which is basically a 5th Gen while the World would have moved to 6th Gen Fighters. FCAS, Tempest, Chinese 6th Gen would be coming Online by that Timeframe. And It is possible and probable Indians might join as a major partner in Either of the Two European Programs most likely Tempest. Concurrently in the East, Imagine the amount of maturity J-20C, J-35, FC-31 would have attained by then while TF-X would be trailing behind amongst all 5th Gen Fighters. In my view my Turkish Kardesims are already behind in terms of what they want to achieve Capability wise, While the World would be Moving to 6Th Gen A/C. However, PAF might still go for TFX as a solution to Replace Vipers. But that’s only if they really want to have a Western Fighter. Recent fighter options from the East have been both Medium and Heavy Weight in 5th Gen. What PAF opts for as an off the shelf purchase will determine the viability of TFX in PAF. I really wish my Turkish Brothers best wishes and May TFX touch the glory in the skies for them. Their F-35 fiasco has not been a good news for them.

 

[T-123456]

True but that Timeline then reaches 2035. Imagine A new A/C by 2035 which is basically a 5th Gen while the World would have moved to 6th Gen Fighters. FCAS, Tempest, Chinese 6th Gen would be coming Online by that Timeframe. And It is possible and probable Indians might join as a major partner in Either of the Two European Programs most likely Tempest. Concurrently in the East, Imagine the amount of maturity J-20C, J-35, FC-31 would have attained by then while TF-X would be trailing behind amongst all 5th Gen Fighters. In my view my Turkish Kardesims are already behind in terms of what they want to achieve Capability wise, While the World would be Moving to 6Th Gen A/C. However, PAF might still go for TFX as a solution to Replace Vipers. But that’s only if they really want to have a Western Fighter. Recent fighter options from the East have been both Medium and Heavy Weight in 5th Gen. What PAF opts for as an off the shelf purchase will determine the viability of TFX in PAF. I really wish my Turkish Brothers best wishes and May TFX touch the glory in the skies for them. Their F-35 fiasco has not been a good news for them.

You are right but isnt the most important(the only) part of this project,the indigenous engine series?
When we have compatible engines then how difficult will 6 or 7th gen be?
Besides the engine,what do we lack?

 

[Indos]

I believe 5 generation fighters are still competitive for quite long time as it will undergo upgrade over time. Just look on F16 which first flight was in 1974 are still used in many countries in 2020, including USA.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

You are right but isnt the most important(the only) part of this project,the indigenous engine series?
When we have compatible engines then how difficult will 6 or 7th gen be?
Besides the engine,what do we lack?

Well if engine is a bottle neck then why not pursue engine development separately with an interim engine for now and have the jet developed sooner. Sort of like the Chinese model to use Russian engines initially, and now they are moving towards their own engines.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Well if engine is a bottle neck then why not pursue engine development separately with an interim engine for now and have the jet developed sooner. Sort of like the Chinese model to use Russian engines initially, and now they are moving towards their own engines.

The Turks chose the GE F110 because they know that engine inside and out (after using it with their F-16s for so many decades). They have a complete maintenance and even production facility for the F110. It's not an issue for the Turkish Air Force, which is the primary buyer of the TF-X. Everyone else, including Pakistan, are (and rightfully so) a secondary concern, and will have to wait for the TR Motor engine.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

The Turks chose the GE F110 because they know that engine inside and out (after using it with their F-16s for so many decades). They have a complete maintenance and even production facility for the F110. It's not an issue for the Turkish Air Force, which is the primary buyer of the TF-X. Everyone else, including Pakistan, are (and rightfully so) a secondary concern, and will have to wait for the TR Motor engine.

A US involved engine is a big risk for Turkey - Pakistan will definitely have to wait for a non US origin engine given how even a small T129 deal got ruined. However we should be on the lookout for cooperation with Turkey in subsystems and other critical components for our own local programs (or even Chinese platforms - just like we did for Agosta subs)

 

[Kamil_baku]

A US involved engine is a big risk for Turkey - Pakistan will definitely have to wait for a non US origin engine given how even a small T129 deal got ruined. However we should be on the lookout for cooperation with Turkey in subsystems and other critical components for our own local programs (or even Chinese platforms - just like we did for Agosta subs)

Turkey, if something goes wrong, has all the teknology to build f110 on its own. Thats why they dont afrid of something goes wrong. unlike others, Turkey has all main teknology to build the jet only engine missing, so is better to just start you. You know, you shouldnt design it unless you own those teknologies. lets say if you dont own AESA radar, how will you design the nose of jet? how do you know how big it will be? just some differense will make additional drag on the jet.
but, Turkey is set to build its own unmanned jets by 2023, its engine might also be built in Turkey. imagine, building your own AESA radar, air to air missiles, thermal kameras, and building them 1 5th of the jets prise, also, no risk to loose pilot.
look all those EU projekt, they plan to own 5th generation jets after 2035, Turkey started almost 5 years earlier than them, so they will not finish it earlier than Turkey... and, as many Eu members will be in it, they will first make the jets for them, but Turkey will always make it for Pakistan if you need it Asap.

 

[T-123456]

A US involved engine is a big risk for Turkey

No,as long as it is used for Turkish use only,its not.
You think Pakistan wouldnt if available for the JF-17?
Btw,

The General Electric F110 is an afterburning turbofan jet engine produced by GE Aviation. The F110 engine uses the same engine core design as the General Electric F101. The F118 is a non-afterburning variant. The engine is also license-built in Eskisehir, Turkey by TUSAŞ Engine Industries (TEI).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_F110

 

[TheDarkKnight]

No,as long as it is used for Turkish use only,its not.
You think Pakistan wouldnt if available for the JF-17?
Btw,

The General Electric F110 is an afterburning turbofan jet engine produced by GE Aviation. The F110 engine uses the same engine core design as the General Electric F101. The F118 is a non-afterburning variant. The engine is also license-built in Eskisehir, Turkey by TUSAŞ Engine Industries (TEI).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_F110

Well even if available to Pakistan, it should and would stay away from it. Pakistan cant even manage to procure a handful of helicopters and transport aircraft from US without a diplomatic drama. I guess Turkey can take the risk as there are benefits of existing familiarity with the engine, but still given the F35 fiasco its not out of question that Turkey may face issues with supplies from USA - especially when TFX is mature and about to enter production. I do not know how deep the ToT of F110 engines was provided to Turkey, but I am pretty sure that certain critical components are still supplied by USA and without that support Turkey cannot independently manufacture the engines at home. USA is notorious in two things: Taxes and protecting its IP; and for key strategic techs like aircraft engines I doubt it would ever provide this favor to anybody.

 

[koolio]

All the best to Turkey, hopefully the project will succeed.

 

[T-123456]

when TFX is mature and about to enter production

Then our engine will be ready.

I am pretty sure that certain critical components are still supplied by USA and without that support Turkey cannot independently manufacture the engines at home.

After 30 years,nothing stays hidden.

 

[-SINAN-]

TAI-Tübitak Near field RCS test & analyse facility & TAI-Far field RCS test facility

• The facility will analyse/test critical RCS figures of aircrafts up to 25m length.
• According to information, There are 4 facilities that is in same level with the TAI’s RCS facility.
• RCS info has to be kept secret so this facility has serious importance to protect the key features of TF-X.
• It will be operational in 2021.

Lol, finally, i have worked in this project...but couldn't say anything since there was confidentiality on the papers.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

In sha Allah.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Congrats to Turkey for 2023 , look forward to it flying and being operational

 

[Erieye]

I believe 5 generation fighters are still competitive for quite long time as it will undergo upgrade over time. Just look on F16 which first flight was in 1974 are still used in many countries in 2020, including USA.

F16 still dominating skies even today with occasional avionics upgrades. beautiful fighter.

Even the design and mock up of TFX I must admit looks sleek and beautiful.

anyone know if it is still rolling out on this date?