Turkey says US sanctions will not impact helicopter deal with Pakistan

[Khanate]

The statement would have sounded a lot better had it came from LHTEC.

As it stands, T-129 deal is a complete fiasco. Turkey's relations with US, EU and NATO aren't getting better anytime soon, nor is the S-400 or Eastern Mediterranean issue going away.

 

[mdmm]

I am not an army man. So kindly provide me information , I am requesting .I am living in North America over 30 years and lack info resources .
Did Pakistan sign a deal with china for Z-10ME OR any J-series jet fighters.??

 

[aziqbal]

The statement would have sounded a lot better had it came from LHTEC.

As it stands, T-129 deal is a complete fiasco. Turkey's relations with US, EU and NATO aren't getting better anytime soon, nor is the S-400 or Eastern Mediterranean issue going away.

the latest engine tests started on the turboshaft so if we want Turkish engine it will be a few years yet

they also hired a lobbyist but it didn't help

lets just wait it out

we waited 30 years for F16 from US

whats 3 years from Turkish brother country

 

[araz]

the latest engine tests started on the turboshaft so if we want Turkish engine it will be a few years yet

they also hired a lobbyist but it didn't help

lets just wait it out

we waited 30 years for F16 from US

whats 3 years from Turkish brother country

It wont just be those 3 years. All the trials in Pakistan will have to be redone. 5 more years and also remember initial production rates will be low for the engines so Turkey may have to forego its own needs to supply us first. If anything happens in the region and Turmey feels the need its needs will take precedence in which case our supply may go back even further. I think it might all depend on how the Z10ME performs. If its performance is good we may go for it and wait for ATAK2.
At least that is what my brain tells me.
A

 

[aziqbal]

It wont just be those 3 years. All the trials in Pakistan will have to be redone. 5 more years and also remember initial production rates will be low for the engines so Turkey may have to forego its own needs to supply us first. If anything happens in the region and Turmey feels the need its needs will take precedence in which case our supply may go back even further. I think it might all depend on how the Z10ME performs. If its performance is good we may go for it and wait for ATAK2.
At least that is what my brain tells me.
A

make it 10 so what? end of the day we will get a unit which is sanction proof and thats better than getting something which is quick but dependent on which mood the Congress is in

 

[HAIDER]

politics is game of interest and turkey did wrong to take s-400 . many losses for just a missile . wrong move

Sir ji ... Turkey has no other choice to buy Russian sanction proof weapons... what Pakistan learnt in 71 , Turkey learning now. Pakistan learned lesson right after 71 arm embargo even member of SETO, SENTO, later Pak diversified weapon suppliers. Again Pak was victim of Pressler amendments in late 90s ... NATO supplied weapon and technology comes with massive terms and condition.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Sir ji ... Turkey has no other choice to buy Russian sanction proof weapons... what Pakistan learnt in 71 , Turkey learning now. Pakistan learned lesson right after 71 arm embargo even member of SETO, SENTO, later Pak diversified weapon suppliers. Again Pak was victim of Pressler amendments in late 90s ... NATO supplied weapon and technology comes with massive terms and condition.

Turkey learnt it after the 1974 The Northern Cyprus Liberation ops! ASELSAN was established immediately after that...

No UAVs were provided, nor more than a dozen attack chopper - that too with a quota on ammunition, were provided during the 3-decades long low intensity warfare against PKK/YPG etc. supported by the almost entire known world....

 

[Imran Khan]

Sir ji ... Turkey has no other choice to buy Russian sanction proof weapons... what Pakistan learnt in 71 , Turkey learning now. Pakistan learned lesson right after 71 arm embargo even member of SETO, SENTO, later Pak diversified weapon suppliers. Again Pak was victim of Pressler amendments in late 90s ... NATO supplied weapon and technology comes with massive terms and condition.

janab turkey is not pakistan turkey is rich important and NATO member . its just a mistake and its costs too much . whole turkish weapons program destroyed f-35 is 1000 times more important then s400

 

[Beast]

the latest engine tests started on the turboshaft so if we want Turkish engine it will be a few years yet

they also hired a lobbyist but it didn't help

lets just wait it out

we waited 30 years for F16 from US

whats 3 years from Turkish brother country

Few years? What happened tells u their turboshaft has bug and will delay another few years before local production approved in 2026? So PA going to wait for another few more years while go for substandard Mi-35 which max attitude is 4500m?

You think Turkey which before that has no prone experience in making high output modern turboshaft can get it right on first time with its first try?

 

[nahtanbob]

NATO clauses allow independent members to buy weapons from wherever they want. This is why Slovakia, Greece and Bulgaria have S-300 systems.

Turkey sanctions are very strange. There is some other reason for it. It could be because Turkey is not playing along Israel. And USA is under total Israel control.

Greece purchased S-300s back in late 1990s

S-400 is not the real reason. You will see that India will get away with purchase of S-400. Matter of fact is that West was vary of Turkey since Erodgan inception and Turkey taking decisions in her own interests. Even if Turkey gives away S-400, things will never go back to normal.

India is not a NATO member. Turkey is

 

[araz]

make it 10 so what? end of the day we will get a unit which is sanction proof and thats better than getting something which is quick but dependent on which mood the Congress is in

If PAA is willing to wait that long then by all means. I would like to point out that engine maturity is/something PAA takes seriously. My last point would be what would be the trust in a country even a brotherly muslim country that is bringing out its first engine. So if you are willing to wait 10 yrs go for ATAK2.
A

 

[Beast]

If PAA is willing to wait that long then by all means. I would like to point out that engine maturity is/something PAA takes seriously. My last point would be what would be the trust in a country even a brotherly muslim country that is bringing out its first engine. So if you are willing to wait 10 yrs go for ATAK2.
A

Can Pakistan wait? Will India army wait? Will enemy of Pakistan wait? No. They dont.

A very big reason why PA dont even consider Altay tank in the first place. They are utterly disappointed in T-129K deal but due to brotherly ties and giving face to Turkey as they already ink the deal earlier. They didnt cancel the deal outright and try to put off the deal in a diplomatic deal by giving Turkey another year which they know Turkey cannot delivered. But deep in PA high level delegate, they know its a lost deal.

VT-4 deal looks to ink fast. Becos going for VT-4 is the only solution for PA. The whole tank including engine supply are secured and in good hands with almost sanction proof unlike Altay and T-84.

Now PN need to pray hard MILGEM are not affected with LM-2500 gas turbine supply by American. But that is not a real concern compare to PA. Becos Type054A for PN are proceeding smoothly. MILGEM are just secondary need.

 

[araz]

Can Pakistan wait? Will India army wait? Will enemy of Pakistan wait? No. They dont.

A very big reason why PA dont even consider Altay tank in the first place. They are utterly disappointed in T-129K deal but due to brotherly ties and giving face to Turkey as they already ink the deal earlier. They didnt cancel the deal outright and try to put off the deal in a diplomatic deal by giving Turkey another year which they know Turkey cannot delivered. But deep in PA high level delegate, they know its a lost deal.

VT-4 deal looks to ink fast. Becos going for VT-4 is the only solution for PA. The whole tank including engine supply are secured and in good hands with almost sanction proof unlike Altay and T-84.

Now PN need to pray hard MILGEM are not affected with LM-2500 gas turbine supply by American. But that is not a real concern compare to PA. Becos Type054A for PN are proceeding smoothly. MILGEM are just secondary need.

Please spare me your deviant logic.
1. PAA chose ATAK after much testing as it beat all competition hands down.
2. PAA has put its faith in the platform and allowed the Turks to come up with a solution. This solution will be tested first before it is adopted.
3. If the Z10ME comes upto PAA Expectation we will surely get it. I dont doubt that. I hear it is/was in Paklands for retesting. I am not aware of the outcome. However it is a testament to our cooperation and the respect wjich the Chinese give to PAA that they sent 3 platforms of Z10 for testing. It is further testament to our co operation that our Chinese brothers have made change in the ME in keeping with what PAA suggested.
4. China will not do anything more than supply the chopper as it does not need Pakistani labour to produce it cheaply. No one can beat the chinese over cost and production speed. This is a reality we have to face upto . What we need will not be enough to set up production facilities in Pakistan for us. Furthermore PAA gains nothing from setting up production for an itwm it might not be able to sell itself. With Turkey these impediments are not there.
5. With the Turks we have hope that we will get offsets for our patience as joint production of the platform has been proposed outright. This alone makes this platform worthy of procurement provided it is upto the mark(repeat testing will be conducted in Pakistan with the new engine ).
So there are distinct advantages in waiting for the project to mature as avainst procurement from China/elsewhere.
I generally tend to avoid engaging you because with you it is/talk first and think later. Unless you can change your ways please avoid responding to my posts.
A

 

[aziqbal]

Few years? What happened tells u their turboshaft has bug and will delay another few years before local production approved in 2026? So PA going to wait for another few more years while go for substandard Mi-35 which max attitude is 4500m?

You think Turkey which before that has no prone experience in making high output modern turboshaft can get it right on first time with its first try?

its a good point but lets look at some history here

Many Turkish companies have been building parts for the US for decades

as a matter of fact Turkish largest export market is US military

Tusas has been working with GE Aviation since mid 1980s building all sorts of critical components

Yes Turkey can build it in first go on the first attempt

Its like China building commercial aircraft, they were building wings and fuselage for decades prior to ARJ21+ C919 so now they hit the ground running

Turkish are hugely experienced in advanced manufacturing and now also core technologies, very impressive

development of the TS1400 turboshaft started in 2017 and in 2020 its ready

it will be around 2025 by the time the unit is ready for T129 by that the we can simply switch to the ATAK 2

we got the JF17 from China we should go with Turkey for rotary wing, even consider building under ToT and start a production line, no Z10 no Russian option do what we can with stop gap measures

 

[Beast]

its a good point but lets look at some history here

Many Turkish companies have been building parts for the US for decades

as a matter of fact Turkish largest export market is US military

Tusas has been working with GE Aviation since mid 1980s building all sorts of critical components

Yes Turkey can build it in first go on the first attempt

Its like China building commercial aircraft, they were building wings and fuselage for decades prior to ARJ21+ C919 so now they hit the ground running

Turkish are hugely experienced in advanced manufacturing and now also core technologies, very impressive

development of the TS1400 turboshaft started in 2017 and in 2020 its ready

it will be around 2025 by the time the unit is ready for T129 by that the we can simply switch to the ATAK 2

we got the JF17 from China we should go with Turkey for rotary wing, even consider building under ToT and start a production line, no Z10 no Russian option do what we can with stop gap measures

You are getting emotional due to Muslim brotherhood. You dont look at matter in a rational way.

ARJ-21 are going well and all issue has iron out and we have delivered more than 40 plus plane.

Turkey has zero record building critical component in first try. China didnt build in their first and so will be Turkey.

Turkey never build critical component for GE. More like just an assemble job. American are not stupid to pass u any critical know how. Especially for a muslim country, they will be even more wary.

Mark my words, Turkey will need to depend on West for propulsion for modern fighter jet, attack helicopter and warship for next 10 years.