Turkey 'fully supports' Pakistan’s position on Kashmir: Turkish FM

[-xXx-]

When india committing genocide in Kashmir and rejecting to accept Kashmiris right to decide their own fate, it is NOT a "bilateral" issue. In the civilized world human rights and freedom are international issues.

Let me ignore what can be called as rant and answer you.

First International law or UN do not recognize "freedom" fighters.

Second, right of self determination can only be granted when there is an absence of self governance for a considerable period of time.

Third right of self determination can be warranted in case of colonial rule. By international law, Indians as a race do not count as a colonial ruler on Kashmir.

Fourth, secession in disguise of self determination based on sect or religion is a threat to global peace under UN charter.

So please next time, please and please, come out with fact and logic. There is no place for emotional barbs.

 

[Feroz Alam Khan]

Nonsense, it has been discussed countless times on the forum, Turkey and even Iran (under Reza Shah Pahlvi) fully supported Pakistan in all its wars with India. From sending medical staff, medical help to all kinds of military material support especially in 1965 war, please keep your bollywood propaganda to yourself, its really not effective here !!!

I agree with you they did supported ..... but for a price.............let me get you some references .............. thanks and gn.. tc..

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dude, this option of dividing J&K basis LOC has now expired post CEPC. Entire J&K is ours, including Gilgit and Baltistan. Please update your views.

Who's the DM Gilgit?

Let me ignore what can be called as rant and answer you.

First International law or UN do not recognize "freedom" fighters.

Second, right of self determination can only be granted when there is an absence of self governance for a considerable period of time.

Third right of self determination can be warranted in case of colonial rule. By international law, Indians as a race do not count as a colonial ruler on Kashmir.

Fourth, secession in disguise of self determination based on sect or religion is a threat to global peace under UN charter.

So please next time, please and please, come out with fact and logic. There is no place for emotional barbs.

I was shocked to read your post. Pleasantly shocked.

 

[HAIDER]

Let me ignore what can be called as rant and answer you.

First International law or UN do not recognize "freedom" fighters.

Second, right of self determination can only be granted when there is an absence of self governance for a considerable period of time.

Third right of self determination can be warranted in case of colonial rule. By international law, Indians as a race do not count as a colonial ruler on Kashmir.

Fourth, secession in disguise of self determination based on sect or religion is a threat to global peace under UN charter.

So please next time, please and please, come out with fact and logic. There is no place for emotional barbs.

East Timor ......................all above points are worthless..............South Sudan ...again...

 

[madooxno9]

Turkey kya tum puri kainaat ka joor bhi laga loge tho bhi Kashmir nahi milega. Turkey ki tho waise hi waat lagi hui hai ... Do chaar saal aur baki KKP wale tho hai hi Turkey ko pakistan bana hi dege.

 

[Love And War]

Kashmir belongs to Pakistan..
Close thread.

 

[-xXx-]

East Timor ......................all above points are worthless..............South Sudan ...again...

In that case, might become right. What your choice is when might have already failed thrice? Whats the tool left in the kitty?

Moreover Haider, you raised Junagarh, so let me put forth two points -

1- Pakistan was created on the basic premise of that hindu muslims can not live together peacefully. Isn't the acceptance of accession of Junagarh which was almost a hindu state beat that argument?

2- Junagarh was not connected with mainland Pakistan by any means with 3 faces to India and one opening at Arabian sea. How can it be practically viable to be acceded to Pakistan? The same case with Hyderabad. That was the reason, though Jinnah claim Indian act as an invasion on sovereignty of Pakistan, he never stretch the matter beyond a point.

3- India never argued that Hindus can not live with muslims, so we never had any apprehension on accession of muslim majority state of Kashmir to us.

4- East Timor UNSC resolution was based on Chapter 7 and was enforceable.

I was shocked to read your post. Pleasantly shocked.

Its just that I do not want to burn my brain cells more often on this forum.

@Joe Shearer You can argue at length and what will come back to you will be an amalgamation of words like "Oppression, UN resolution, Genocide, Hindu army, Freedom fighter, Martyr, Jihad" and some prepositions, verbs, qualifiers and connectors loosely woven around them.

 

[idune]

Let me ignore what can be called as rant and answer you.

when india committing genocide and indians cheer leading such heinous crime against Kashmiris, it is only natural
indians will find "human rights" is "rant". "civilization" has a completely different meaning for indians.

First International law or UN do not recognize "freedom" fighters.

international law does not dictate "who", "when" and "how" people can seek freedom. But international law prohibit genocide, repression and occupation (by trickery or any other means), which what india committed and committing.

Second, right of self determination can only be granted when there is an absence of self governance for a considerable period of time.

Choice of self determination for Kashmiris is not something india can hijack . india is occupying Kashmir at gunpoint and "absence of self governance" is another of indian "gunpoint" bs.

Third right of self determination can be warranted in case of colonial rule. By international law, Indians as a race do not count as a colonial ruler on Kashmir.

another indian invented bs " right of self determination can be warranted in case of colonial rule". Catalans, Scottland and many other people are seeking independence from their present union. In a civilized world (Unlike india) - UK, Spain did not commit genocide to stop such move rather they let people vote and decide. By the way india is worse than a colonial power committing genocide.

Fourth, secession in disguise of self determination based on sect or religion is a threat to global peace under UN charter.

india is occupying Kashmir; "secession" is not relevant when occupation is the root cause. What relevant against occupation is freedom and justice. Besides, whatever reasons (be that religion or otherwise) Kashmiris seeking freedom neither can be dictated by indian invented bs and bully nor UN charter dictate such indian bs. indians are not spokespersons for Kasmiri people, period; so indians should stop act like one.

 

[Love And War]

Kashmir is Muslim.
Close thread.

 

[-xXx-]

when india committing genocide and indians cheer leading such heinous crime against Kashmiris, it is only natural
indians will find "human rights" is "rant". "civilization" has a completely different meaning for indians.



international law does not dictate "who", "when" and "how" people can seek freedom. But international law prohibit genocide, repression and occupation (by trickery or any other means), which what india committed and committing.



Choice of self determination for Kashmiris is not something india can hijack . india is occupying Kashmir at gunpoint and "absence of self governance" is another of indian "gunpoint" bs.



another indian invented bs " right of self determination can be warranted in case of colonial rule". Catalans, Scottland and many other people are seeking independence from their present union. In a civilized world (Unlike india) - UK, Spain did not commit genocide to stop such move rather they let people vote and decide. By the way india is worse than a colonial power committing genocide.



india is occupying Kashmir; "secession" is not relevant when occupation is the root cause. What relevant with occupation is freedom and justice. Besides, whatever reasons (be that religion or otherwise) Kashmiris seeking freedom neither can be dictated by indian invented bs and bully nor UN charter dictate such indian bs. indians are not spokespersons for Kasmiri people, period; so indians should stop act like one.

As expected, so much of text but saying so less.

"Jannat na kisi kafir ki hui hai na hogi" - This is what you are trying to sell as freedom fight?

Who gonna buy this? This civilized world?

I hope you dont want me to explain you the difference between sovereignty and integrity of a country and willfully formed union of countries? Do you?

Or do you want me to explain why there are provisions of sedition charge in all constitutions but those are not applicable for unions?

Kashmir is Muslim.
Close thread.

Please check the source of word "Kashmir" first.

 

[idune]

As expected, so much of text but saying so less.

When indian invented bs and bullies are called out, indians go speechless and start pretending someone they are not. That is a known old indian pattern.

 

[-xXx-]

When indian invented bs and bullies are called out, indians go speechless and start pretending someone they are not. That is a known old indian pattern.

Yeah Yeah very true, all you needed to come up with "genocide, freedom, oppression, justice" and some absurd examples of Scotland to reject all international laws and convention.

Unfortunately that's not how the world roll. Jihadi victim-hood is not given an ear anymore

Bring me some legalities, I will respond then. Spare me heavy words. Lets start with 47 and go one by one.

Do Kashmiri had right to self determination in 1947?

Please keep it short, legal, factual and one question at a time, I will respond back tomorrow.

 

[M. Sarmad]

First International law or UN do not recognize "freedom" fighters.

The UN has no internationally agreed definition of terrorism and the reason is that some organizations (OIC, Arab League etc.) define terrorism to exclude "armed struggle for liberation" and "self-determination". The member countries (of these organisations) won't accept any definition of terrorism which may declare Palestinian Freedom Fighters as Terrorists. This Dead Lock continues to this day and the UN has not adopted the convention on international terrorism.

So, as long as the UN does not "define" terrorism, the Kashmiri Freedom Fighters cannot be declared Terrorists ..... Their insurgency cannot be declared legitimate either (In case the UN chooses to define terrorism to exclude "armed struggle for liberation" and "self-determination") .....


As far as International Law is concerned, the Statute of the International Court of Justice does recognize the teachings of the most highly qualified publicists of the various nations as a valid source of International Law. This category may also include the work of organizations and private institutions. Opinions expressed by experts carry significant weight in International Law.


And here is what some experts on International Law have to say regarding the Kashmiri Freedom Fighters:


(The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ) is an international human rights non-governmental organization based in Geneva. The Commission itself is a standing group of 60 eminent jurists(including senior judges, attorneys and academics) dedicated to ensuring respect for international human rights standards through the law. Commissioners are known for their experience, knowledge and fundamental commitment to human rights.)


ICJ sent a fact finding mission to Kashmir in 1995. The final report published not only challenged the accession of Kashmir to India, it went on to say "If as the ICJ mission has concluded , the people of Kashmir have a right for self determination, it follows that their insurgency is legitimate " ... (p.84-98)

http://www.icj.org/category/publications/reports/page/33/

Second, right of self determination can only be granted when there is an absence of self governance for a considerable period of time.

Third right of self determination can be warranted in case of colonial rule. By international law, Indians as a race do not count as a colonial ruler on Kashmir.

Fourth, secession in disguise of self determination based on sect or religion is a threat to global peace under UN charter

The Premises are false, Your argument fails.

Without going into details of Right of Self Determination and its recognition under the UN and International Law, I will just point out that In case of Kashmir, the right to self-determination has been given to the people of Kashmir by the United Nations Security Council itself. The U.N Security Council passed 23 resolutions in this regard. The relevant UNSC Resolutions, as clarified by the UN Representatives on several occasions, are still valid.

 

[Zee-shaun]

We are doing that ? Any reason for that?

I mean like Pakistan has help them with nuclear bomb, they gave you No-Dong missile on which you put sticker HATF.

Yes, North Korean students are being trained in India. IIRC India is the only country allowing it according to a recent report North Korea might have used the training to improve its ballistic missile program.

 

[American Pakistani]

Thank you Turkeye. Love you.