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Turkey ‘freezes’ $56 billion of Israeli contracts

Turkey uses leased Herons with Israeli avionics since 2007. Then they decided to buy Herons with own avionics, however Turkish ASELFLIR-300T is much heaver and less capable than Israeli MOSP-3000. Delays are normal thing, especially is you have unusual requests.

Only request to for the Heron to be able to take our payload which it failed to do and needed a engine refit. Our own UAV the Anka was able to take it no problem.
 
Only request to for the Heron to be able to take our payload which it failed to do and needed a engine refit. Our own UAV the Anka was able to take it no problem.
Turkey operates Herons since 2007, while Anka will be operational only in 2012.

Herons with Turkish systems are also already operational. As for delay, no one in Turkey complained about over 3 years delay of Boeing 737 AEW&C, although it was standard system with alternatives (Phalcon, Erieye). While Heron with Aseslan pod was unusual request with no alternatives (Americans refused to integrate it).
 
Turkey operates Herons since 2007, while Anka will be operational only in 2012.

Herons with Turkish systems are also already operational. As for delay, no one in Turkey complained about over 3 years delay of Boeing 737 AEW&C, although it was standard system with alternatives (Phalcon, Erieye). While Heron with Aseslan pod was unusual request with no alternatives (Americans refused to integrate it).

Because the MQ-1 does not have the capability to integrate it and meet the specifications of the contract. Israel said theirs could but it couldn't. At which point they had drop a new engine in it now it can meet the requirements. These will hold us good till 2012 and not all the systems have be delivered to my knowledge we are still 8/10 last time i checked. 2007 date is false we first got Herons in 09 because of delays.


You keep saying that this is a unusual request but i think you must understand Turkey does not operate generally like other nations. We like to integrate and upgrade products with our own tech. Read around on this forum and you will see almost every piece of defense equipment we have is either made in Turkey or tech transferred or upgraded by Turkey. You shouldn't be surprised Israel does the same with a lot of U.S. tech too.
 
Because the MQ-1 does not have the capability to integrate it and meet the specifications of the contract.
That's what I said, you had no alternatives.

Israel said theirs could but it couldn't. At which point they had drop a new engine in it now it can meet the requirements.
So we did in the end.

These will hold us good till 2012 and not all the systems have be delivered to my knowledge we are still 8/10 last time i checked.
First 6 Herons with upgraded engines arrived in March 2010, remaining 4 in August 2010. Boeing 737 AEW&C arrived with same delay, even more.

2007 date is false we first got Herons in 09 because of delays.
I am talking about leased Herons with Israeli avionics. They are operational since 2007.

You keep saying that this is a unusual request but i think you must understand Turkey does not operate generally like other nations. We like to integrate and upgrade products with our own tech.
Well, thats called unusual request.
 
I didn't want to bring this up. I know it's a big controversy over there and I'm sure you know the details. What I wanted to point out is, illegal or not, no one in Turkey asks permit papers of people who looked suspicious to be illegally living.



Nothing happened in the last few years. I think you mixed up with government policy of emptying villages of some cities in South Eastern Anatolia in the first half of 90's. You have a point there though. What I can add to that, which you left blank, is those villagers had to go and live in the urban cities, which had a impact on their economic and social lives.


It takes time to make this kind of big changes as it affects the whole country not just the Kurds. From my perspective, I strongly believe Kurds who want to learn on their own language should be permitted, but it should be done in a way that this school system doesn't cause any problems of integration with other parts of the country.



New law restricted the sentence given to children. But before the law came out, that was a problem. Even though some of them are PKK sympathisers, majority are used by anarchist powers who take their power from PKK.

For the jail part, only I can say to you is, watched too much Midnight Express have you?



Not everything is clear as the sky. Those political prisoners have found to be in connection with PKK terrorist organisation. I would love to hear from you, if US government found Al-Qaide linked politician or Israel found Hezbollah or Hamas linked politician, what do you think would happen different than Turkey?



None, not any single village is bombed. This is our land, Turkey knows its responsibilities and have a clear knowledge of region's sensibilities. Our drones don't have armed weapons, only confirmed targets get hit.



Good job there. From your perspective of looking at things, then I can say USA controls Al-Qaide to justify wars for the sake of oil and gain a foot location against Russia and China. You see what I did there?



True. Diplomacy is a weird thing.

Good post.....BTW, I meant Kurdish villages in Iraq. Also in regards to the villages that were purged in Turkey. As far as I know most were send to the slums of Istanbul. Eitherway, Turkey needs to abolish Article 301 to make the first step forward or nothing will ever change.

Cheers
 
Good post.....BTW, I meant Kurdish villages in Iraq. Also in regards to the villages that were purged in Turkey. As far as I know most were send to the slums of Istanbul. Eitherway, Turkey needs to abolish Article 301 to make the first step forward or nothing will ever change.

Cheers

Article 301 is for people like you so i think it should stay. Why not come down to turkey so it can be used. Also bring your Armenian lobby along too they are getting nowhere in Washington anyway.
 
What is Article 301?

Article 301 is a article of the Turkish Penal Code making it illegal to insult Turkey, the Turkish ethnicity, or Turkish government institutions. If you break this you serve 6 months to 2 years in prison.
 
Article 301 is a article of the Turkish Penal Code making it illegal to insult Turkey, the Turkish ethnicity, or Turkish government institutions. If you break this you serve 6 months to 2 years in prison.
So whats wrong in it? .....Some one living in my country and insult my country i'll break his jaw into two.
 
So whats wrong in it? .....Some one living in my country and insult my country i'll break his jaw into two.

It is not like you think. It is racist article and it is also used as a tool to incarcerate anyone they want. Here is the view of Amnesty International on Turkish Article 301, that if anybody gives a damn what they think.

Also this is one of the reasons why Turkey will never become part of the EU.

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

Public Statement

AI Index: EUR 44/035/2005 (Public)
News Service No: 324
1 December 2005


Turkey: Article 301 is a threat to freedom of expression and must be repealed now!
Amnesty International is extremely concerned at the frequent use of Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code (TPC) to prosecute human rights defenders, journalists and other members of civil society peacefully expressing their dissenting opinion. Article 301, on the denigration of Turkishness, the Republic, and the foundation and institutions of the State, was introduced with the legislative reforms of 1 June 2005 and replaced Article 159 of the old penal code. Amnesty International repeatedly opposed the use of Article 159 to prosecute non-violent critical opinion and called on the Turkish authorities to abolish the article.
The organization is now concerned that the wide and vague terms of Article 301 mean that it too can be applied arbitrarily to criminalize a huge range of critical opinions. It states that:
1. Public denigration of Turkishness, the Republic or the Grand National Assembly of Turkey shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and three years.
2. Public denigration of the Government of the Republic of Turkey, the judicial institutions of the State, the military or security structures shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and two years.
3. In cases where denigration of Turkishness is committed by a Turkish citizen in another country the punishment shall be increased by one third.
4. Expressions of thought intended to criticize shall not constitute a crime.

The final qualification of the article in paragraph 4 suggests that expressions amounting to "criticism" rather than "public denigration" are not punishable. Amnesty International considers that the attempt to draw a distinction between criticism and denigration is highly problematic. The lack of legal certainty of the crime will lead to arbitrary interpretation by prosecutors and judges. Even the Turkish Minister of Justice himself, Cemil Cicek, has reportedly stated that "the whole issue comes down to how the laws are interpreted".

Amnesty International believes that Article 301 poses a direct threat to freedom of expression, as enshrined in Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) and in Article 10 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms (ECHR). Turkey is a State Party to both conventions and therefore the Turkish government has a legal obligation to uphold this freedom. Nevertheless Amnesty International receives a steady flow of cases opened against individuals under Article 301, for expressing a wide variety of opinions. Some of these cases are outlined below. The organization hopes that the international attention focused on the novelist Orhan Pamuk's case will also cast light on the cases of lesser known individuals prosecuted under the same legislation.

With regard to the concerns above, Amnesty International notes also the jurisprudence of the European Court of Human Rights, which states that the limits of acceptable criticism are broader as regards politicians than private individuals (Lingens v Austria, 1986); are wider with regard to government (Castells v Spain, 1992); and that the authorities of a democratic state must accept criticism even if provocative or insulting (Ozgur Gundem v Turkey, 2000). In addition, the law has to be accessible and formulated with precision sufficient for the citizen to regulate their conduct (Sunday Times v the United Kingdom, 1998). Furthermore, Amnesty International notes Recommendation 1589 (2003)1 of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, which urges states inter alia to "abolish legislation that makes journalistic freedom of expression subject to criminal prosecution"; "to stop immediately all forms of legal and economic harassment of dissenting media" and "to incorporate the case-law of the European Court of Human Rights in the field of freedom of expression into their domestic legislation and ensure the relevant training of judges".

Cases opened under Article 301

Orhan Pamuk is an internationally-known Turkish author whose novels, including Snow and My Name is Red, have been translated into many languages and have received wide critical acclaim. He is facing charges under Article 301 for comments he made during an interview he gave to a Swiss newspaper (Tages Anzeiger) on 5 February 2005. In the interview, Orhan Pamuk stated, "30,000 Kurds and a million Armenians were murdered. Hardly anyone dares mention it, so I do. And that's why I'm hated". The first hearing of his case will take place in the Sisli Court of First Instance No. 2 in Istanbul on 16 December 2005.

Hrant Dink is a journalist and the editor of the Armenian-language weekly newspaper Agos, which is published in Istanbul. On 7 October 2005, Hrant Dink was given a six-month suspended prison sentence by the Sisli Court of First Instance No. 2 in Istanbul for "denigrating Turkishness" in an article he wrote on Armenian identity. According to the prosecutor in the case, Hrant Dink had written his article with the intention of denigrating Turkish national identity. The court suspended the sentence as the journalist had no previous convictions, on condition that he does not repeat the offence. Hrant Dink is currently appealing the decision. However, he is also being prosecuted under Article 301 for another offence (see below). Should he be imprisoned, Amnesty International would consider him to be a prisoner of conscience.

Sehmus Ulek is the Vice-President of the Turkish human rights NGO Mazlum Der. On 28 April 2005 the Sanlıurfa Court of First Instance No. 3 started hearing a case against him and Hrant Dink, under Article 159 of the old TPC (now Article 301) for speeches they made during a conference organized by Mazlum Der's Urfa branch on 14 December 2002 entitled "Global Security, Terror and Human Rights, Multi-culturalism, Minorities and Human Rights". Sehmus Ulek referred in his speech to the nation-building project of the Turkish Republic as it had affected, in particular, the southeastern area of the country; Hrant Dink discussed his own relationship to official conceptions of Turkish identity. The next hearing of the case will take place on 9 February 2006.

A trial began in May 2005 at the Beyoglu Court of First Instance No. 2 in Istanbul against publisher Ragip Zarakolu for his publication of a Turkish translation of a book by Dora Sakayan entitled Experiences of an Armenian Doctor: Garabet Hacheryan's Izmir Journal (Bir Ermeni Doktorun Yasadıkları: Garabet Haceryan'ın İzmir Guncesi; Istanbul: Belge 2005). Ragip Zarakolu had been charged under Article 159 of the TPC for "denigrating Turkishness and the security forces", and then under Article 301 after the new TPC came into effect. Another case had been opened against him in March, in which Ragip Zarakolu was charged with "denigrating the state and the republic" under Article 159 (also converted to Article 301) and "insulting Ataturk's memory" under Law No 5816 for publishing a Turkish translation of a book by George Jerjian entitled The Truth Will Set Us Free: Armenians and Turks Reconciled (Gercek bizi Ozgur Kalıcak; Istanbul: Belge 2004).

Fatih Tas is a 26-year-old student of Communications and Journalism at Istanbul University and the owner of Aram publishing house. He is currently being tried under Article 301 because he published a Turkish translation of a book by the American academic John Tirman, entitled Savas Ganimetleri: Amerikan Silah Ticaretinin Insan Bedeli (Istanbul: Aram, 2005) (The Spoils of War: the Human Cost of America's Arms Trade), that reportedly includes a map depicting a large section of Turkey as traditionally Kurdish and alleges that the Turkish military perpetrated a number of human rights abuses in the south-east of the country during the 1980s and 1990s. Fatih Tas argues that the book contains nothing that has not previously been discussed in the Turkish Parliament or media, and was not intended to insult Turkey or Turkishness. The prosecutor reportedly demanded that each "insult" in the book should be tried as a separate charge and called for Fatih Tas to be given a prison sentence of ten and a half years. The next hearing of his case will take place on 2 December 2005 at the Court of First Instance No.2 in Istanbul. In relation to other statements made in the book, Fatih Tas also faces charges under Articles 1/1 and 2 of Law 5816, which prohibits publicly insulting the memory of Ataturk.

Murat Pabuc was a lieutenant in the Turkish army who retired on grounds of disability. Whilst still serving, he witnessed the massive earthquake that hit Turkey in August 1999, as well as the institutional corruption that he alleges followed it. He became disillusioned with his military duties, seeing soldiers as being alienated from ordinary people, and began to refuse orders. He eventually began undergoing psychiatric treatment. In June 2005 he published his book Boyalı Bank Nobetini Terk Etmek The literal translation of this title is "Abandoning the Duty of the Painted Bench". It alludes to a Turkish anecdote which portrays a pastiche of a soldier following orders unquestioningly. He believes that this was the only way for him to express what he had experienced in the army. As a result he is facing a trial for "public denigration of the military" under Article 301.

Birol Duru is a journalist. On 17 November 2005 he was charged with "denigrating the security forces" under Article 301 because he published on the Dicle news agency a press release from the Human Rights Association (IHD) Bingol branch which stated that the security forces were burning forests in Bingol and Tunceli. The president of IHD's Bingol branch, Rıdvan Kızgın, is also charged under other legislation for the contents of the press release. Rıdvan Kızgın has had over 47 cases opened against him since 2001, and Amnesty International is currently running a web action Amnesty International | Working to Protect Human Rights
for him as part of its ongoing campaigning work on human rights defenders in Turkey and Eurasia. Birol Duru is due to be sentenced on 8 December 2005.

Amnesty International welcomes many of the changes introduced by the legislative reforms that came into force on 1 June 2005. However, the organization believes that the breadth and frequency of the cases cited above illustrates the threat that Article 301 poses to the principle of freedom of expression and calls for it to be repealed. Human rights activists, writers, publishers -- in fact potentially anybody -- who express views which run counter to "official history" or the dominant ideology may find themselves prosecuted. That such prosecutions rarely end in imprisonment and more often in fines or acquittal or the dropping of charges is small consolation. The initiation of these legal proceedings is a way of trying to silence opposition voices and should be addressed immediately. Amnesty international considers Article 301 to be at odds with Turkey's international legal obligations, and therefore calls on the Turkish authorities to terminate without delay all prosecutions against individuals under it, and to abolish the article in its entirety.

Turkey: Article 301 is a threat to freedom of expression and must be repealed now!
 
Article 301 is for people like you so i think it should stay. Why not come down to turkey so it can be used. Also bring your Armenian lobby along too they are getting nowhere in Washington anyway.

I have been there.....ever heard about the Armenian and Artsakh flag raised on Mt Ararat that caused all kinds of insults to your Turkishness? ha.
 
I have been there.....ever heard about the Armenian and Artsakh flag raised on Mt Ararat that caused all kinds of insults to your Turkishness? ha.

Raise all the Armenian flags you like but at the end of the day it is still Turkey and your still angry. Keep raising flags in Turkey if it makes you feel like you own a piece of land that legally isn't yours. Keep dreaming. People need to get over this. Turkey lost islands to Greece are we trying to get them back ? No. The native Americans lost their land and forced onto reservations same thing.


Now Armenians are asking for more money. We paid you in the 30s and your still asking for payment 80 years later. Move on the past is now part of history.
 
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