Turkey First Indigenous Helicopter Engine to be Ready for Integration This Year

[imranyounus]

Turky showing good progress. there are two reasons for that.
Will to do something, just like we had while developing Nuclear bomb and missile and second most important is developing commercial industrial capabilities.

We unfortunately we have not invested in or have not involved private sector in defense related sector. for a small economy like us defense products represent a huge busines potential for engineering sector. We should try to involve private firms especially those already working in commercial vehicles and engineering sector. It will really benefit not just defense but also economy.

 

[Armchair]

Would be a coup if the Turks managed to send the T-129s to Pak with local engines within the time frame given.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Would be a coup if the Turks managed to send the T-129s to Pak with local engines within the time frame given.

Pakistan's 1-year time-frame was to see the progress of the TEI TS1400. There's no scenario where anyone -- much less Turkey -- can integrate, certify, produce and deliver a new engine in 12 months.

I think the intent was that Turkey will fly the TS1400 prototype this year, and the PA will get to see it in detail before anyone else (outside of Turkey). From there, Pakistan can decide if it wants to stick with the T129 ATAK or not.

However, even if the PA says "yes" to everything above, it would still need to wait a few years for the testing and certification process in Turkey. But the PAA has been adamant of getting something in the short-term, and that will be the Z-10ME. If the Z-10ME does well enough operationally, the PAA will order more.

 

[dBSPL]

Would be a coup if the Turks managed to send the T-129s to Pak with local engines within the time frame given.

There is a two-dimensional certification path for the TS1400.

First of all, TAI Gökbey(T-625) LUHP is primarily a civil oriented project. For Gökbey, probebly there will be no military front line helicopter. Therefore, civil safety , maintenance reliability procedures are at the forefront since from the early design stages. Like many aviation programs in Turkey, Project developed in conjunction with international aviation certification,in accordance with EASA. What I am talking about is a huge standardization and proof of safety study, consisting of very complex stages. If you run this work on a finished product afterwards, it lasts for years alone, therefore project is running with EASA. Public institutions in Turkey may NOT wait for completion of the certification process. But the real question is, other civilian markets cant take a similar step.

Another dimension is related to the T629 (new generation Atak with indigenous engine and more advanced avionics&cms). There is no general organization such as FAA or EASA in the certification of military engines, the airworthiness departments of the manufacturers fulfill this requirement.

Maybe some of you know:The TP400-D6 engine, in which TEI is involved in the design and manufacturing along with ITP (Spain) as a risk and income partner; It is the first military engine certified by EASA according to civil aviation regulations.TEI is also one of a limited number of aviation companies with EASA Part-145 Maintenance Organization Approval. These experiences are the factors that speed up the process and strengthen the the TS1400 engine program.

If we come to the answer of the question; In the technical sense, TS1400 is advancing as one of the most successful and exemplary projects in the history of the Turkish defense industry. It made a big leap in time intervals that no one could even guess. On the other hand, many risk factors that will slow down the process in test and qualification are kept under control in the light of past experience.

In short, if Pakistan wants this engine, it is possible to access it in the same timeframe as Turkish military institutions. If the civil certification(easa) is to be expected, it may be necessary to closely follow the T-625 program for more healthy estimates.

 

[Meliodas]

personally we should just wait

we waited 20 years whats another 2 years

PA was not happy with Chinese Z10 and we should not go for it for the sake of it

If Turkey can work out its indigenous engine issues then 30 x T129 would be great for the PA

if the delay continues and Americans won't budge then switch over to the heavier and more capable ATAK-II post 2025 with indigenous engine

this would mean Turkey can add another 30 x ATAK-II to their order books hence reducing the price tag

having a attack helicopter in the class of the AH-64 would be a huge benefit anyway for PA

we need to re-think this whole attack helicopter programme and even join Turkey for ToT and establish a production line at Multan

in meantime ask Turkey for spares for our AH-1 from their retiring fleet

Given that PA is not happy with Z10, what's the probability it will be with a new engine by Turkey.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Given that PA is not happy with Z10, what's the probability it will be with a new engine by Turkey.

The PAA wasn't happy with the Z-10 version it tested in 2015, but the Z-10ME is a big improvement. It might not be ideal, but it's 'good enough.'

 

[IceCold]

“This is a commercial deal with a country that has friendly relations with America.

Never knew we were Friends with America. It was just a relationship of convenience more so for the americans than Pakistan. When the cold war was over so was this relationship only to rekindle after 9/11 and now that bromance is over as well.

Why should the Americans punish Pakistan for their disagreements with Turkey?”

Plenty of reasons starting from Afghanistan to CPEC, India, nuclear weapons etc etc. I am surprised Turkish officials are that naive on the subject matter.

 

[Tair-Lahoti]

Speaking at the IQPC International Military Helicopter conference in London, the commander of Pakistan’s Army Aviation, Major General Syed Najeeb Ahmed, said that the Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC) Z-10ME “remains an option” if the Turkish Aerospace T-129 and Bell AH-1Z Viper prove to be unobtainable for different reasons.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/2020/05/15/abd99bf1-30f4-4f6b-9bb2-80ff46f13669

Pakistan Army can't be more explicit about its plan of attack Helicopters.

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi another thing which comes to my mind ( just a thought ) if PN will be able to integrate
Chinese missiles & other stuff on Turkish boats in coming time & years let’s say for the sake
Of good friendship from Turks ( now I’m not saying inferior) on numerous occasions while backing Pakistan on different occasions (including FATF) they will be given extra time for engine integration with ATAK & a win win situation for China also to get their gadgets on Turkey boats
Thank you

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Hi another thing which comes to my mind ( just a thought ) if PN will be able to integrate
Chinese missiles & other stuff on Turkish boats in coming time & years let’s say for the sake
Of good friendship from Turks ( now I’m not saying inferior) on numerous occasions while backing Pakistan on different occasions (including FATF) they will be given extra time for engine integration with ATAK & a win win situation for China also to get their gadgets on Turkey boats
Thank you

I think, ultimately, the light-end of the PAA's attack helicopter fleet will shift to the Z-10ME. However, if the AH-1Z remains unattainable, then I think the ATAK-2 could become an option for the heavyweight requirement.

 

[Ultima Thule]

after india has bought u.s apache we should buy alligators from russia

The question is this Will Russia export it to Pakistan???, i don't think so

 

[Readerdefence]

I think, ultimately, the light-end of the PAA's attack helicopter fleet will shift to the Z-10ME. However, if the AH-1Z remains unattainable, then I think the ATAK-2 could become an option for the heavyweight requirement.

Hi thanks for your detailed reply if possible can you shed some views about Z10ME against AH64 of Indians ( now here I’m not asking for comparison) but what’s your take if people on this forum
Thinks that’s Z10 is not something according to PA needs how come Chinese are deploying them against Apaches and specially in the current scenario of China/ India skirmishes on that high altitude area
Thank you

 

[Armchair]

Maybe Turkey could say something like: "look, we've tested the engine to our military standards, and they work. if you want them tested to a higher standard, it will take 2 more years. On the other hand, you can buy them without that and should there be a problem, our guaranttee will cover everything"

 

[Reichmarshal]

Z 10 ME is the upgraded version of all the "changes" that PAA had asked to be incoperated into Z 10.

It is tailored to and according to PAA needs. That is the reason why I have always said that ALLAH willing it will join PAA fleet.

 

[Enigma SIG]

The question is this Will Russia export it to Pakistan???, i don't think so

I'd so love to see the Alligator in PA colors. BTW russians will sell if you send them bucket loads of money.