Turkey Chooses Russia Over NATO

[xenon54 out]

If you don't respect other countries' sovereignty, how can you expect ever to join EU?

Well its not like Turkey would ever get the chance to join even if fulfilled all criterias 100%.

Austria signals referendum on Turkey’s EU accession

 

[Penguin]

Vice versa.

You know, this "If you don't dance to our tune, you won't be getting into EU" getting really old. For that reason, negotiations not progressing since years.

Uhm, what exactly are the Dutch doing in Turkey that violates Turkish sovereignty? Care to be specific?

Who rules the country then ?

I was clearly talking about foreign covert activities. In reference to both MIT and PKK

Well its not like Turkey would ever get the chance to join even if fulfilled all criterias 100%.

That's besides the point.

 

[Big Tank]

Turkey , based on it's history , is loyal to no one but itself. You can rant and spread BS as much as you wish.
In your POV , western oppressors , they are Negro Muslims as well as other Muslim nations. So Mind your limits kid, this is a Muslim forum.

Nailed the Imperialist!

 

[-SINAN-]

Uhm, what exactly are the Dutch doing in Turkey that violates Turkish sovereignty? Care to be specific?

EU countries harboring terrorists.

I was clearly talking about foreign covert activities. In reference to both MIT and PKK

PKK is terrorist organization. MIT is an intelligence agency.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

EU countries harboring terrorists.

You cannot violate the sovereignty of another country within your own borders.
Try again...

 

[Penguin]

EU countries harboring terrorists.

The fact that MIT operated in my country, doesn't mean we are harboring them. Similar PPK.

PKK is terrorist organization. MIT is an intelligence agency.

Really? You don't say!

Any intelligence agency that involves itself with (conducts or facilitates) killing of its opponent in other countries pretty much becomes no different IMHO.

 

[-SINAN-]

You cannot violate the sovereignty of another country within your own borders.
Try again...

Oh, it is okay to harboring terrorists and send to Turkey to kill Turkish citizens. But Turkish intelligence agency will do nothing against this threat.

Seems very fair.

My thought on the subject; After the coup, Gülenists are being cleansed from the state. MIT is also being cleansed and restructured. I foresee a much more heavier involvement of MIT in the future against terrorists and their supporters in Europe. I hear Sweden is like the bastion of PKK in the Europe.

Saab made M136 AT4 LAW found from killed PKK terrorist.

Really? You don't say!

Any intelligence agency that involves itself with (conducts or facilitates) killing of its opponent in other countries pretty much becomes no different IMHO.

So, you are also okay with harboring Daesh, Al-Qaida militants unless they commit atrocities in your country.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

The fact that MIT operated in my country, doesn't mean we are harboring them. Similar PPK.


Really? You don't say!

Any intelligence agency that involves itself with (conducts or facilitates) killing of its opponent in other countries pretty much becomes no different IMHO.

Do you honestly think embassies are symbolic places to attract tourists in foreign lands?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Oh, it is okay to harboring terrorists and send to Turkey to kill Turkish citizens. But Turkish intelligence agency will do nothing against this threat.

Seems very fair.

...

Saab made M136 AT4 LAW found from killed PKK terrorist.

We do not "send" people anywhere to commit terrorist acts.

Violating the sovereignty of Turkey can only be done within Turkish borders.
Turkish Government espionage and clandestine operations outside Turkey
is violating sovereignty.

If Turkey has information about illegal activities in Sweden, they need to provide proof.
Claiming someone supports PKK, or Gülen is not proof.

If anyone commits crimes within Sweden, it is a matter for the police.
The crime must be proven in court. If not, they go free.
If someone exercising freedom of speech and demonstrates against Turkey, it is not a crime.
If someone lives in Sweden, and travels to Turkey and commits crime,
Turkey can ask for extradition.
If Turkey introduces the death penalty, there will not be any extradition, since
we have laws against extraditing people to countries.

AT-4s are exported to many countries, including the US which has produced it under a license.
Your point is ?

 

[Penguin]

Oh, it is okay to harboring terrorists and send to Turkey to kill Turkish citizens. But Turkish intelligence agency will do nothing against this threat.

You misunderstood that post.

So, you are also okay with harboring Daesh, Al-Qaida militants unless they commit atrocities in your country.

Don't try put words I didn't say or imply in my mouth. It doesn't work and it not a substantive reply.

 

[wiseone2]

We do not "send" people anywhere to commit terrorist acts.

Violating the sovereignty of Turkey can only be done within Turkish borders.
Turkish Government espionage and clandestine operations outside Turkey
is violating sovereignty.

If Turkey has information about illegal activities in Sweden, they need to provide proof.
Claiming someone supports PKK, or Gülen is not proof.

If anyone commits crimes within Sweden, it is a matter for the police.
The crime must be proven in court. If not, they go free.
If someone exercising freedom of speech and demonstrates against Turkey, it is not a crime.
If someone lives in Sweden, and travels to Turkey and commits crime,
Turkey can ask for extradition.
If Turkey introduces the death penalty, there will not be any extradition, since
we have laws against extraditing people to countries.

AT-4s are exported to many countries, including the US which has produced it under a license.
Your point is ?

Turkey cannot have it both ways. You want access to European market, right to move freely & immigrate to Europe. At the same time you want not to comply with European customs. There is a decision to be made here.

 

[-SINAN-]

We do not "send" people anywhere to commit terrorist acts.

Violating the sovereignty of Turkey can only be done within Turkish borders.
Turkish Government espionage and clandestine operations outside Turkey
is violating sovereignty.

If Turkey has information about illegal activities in Sweden, they need to provide proof.
Claiming someone supports PKK, or Gülen is not proof.

If anyone commits crimes within Sweden, it is a matter for the police.
The crime must be proven in court. If not, they go free.
If someone exercising freedom of speech and demonstrates against Turkey, it is not a crime.
If someone lives in Sweden, and travels to Turkey and commits crime,
Turkey can ask for extradition.
If Turkey introduces the death penalty, there will not be any extradition, since
we have laws against extraditing people to countries.

AT-4s are exported to many countries, including the US which has produced it under a license.
Your point is ?

You misunderstood that post.


Don't try put words I didn't say or imply in my mouth. It doesn't work and it not a substantive reply.

Guys, i'm not gonna enter fruitless discussion with you.

Bottom line is; as long as you keep harboring terrorists in your countries, MIT will try to take them out.

Hava a nice day.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Guys, i'm not gonna enter fruitless discussion with you.

Bottom line is; as long as you keep harboring terrorists in your countries, MIT will try to take them out.

Hava a nice day.

Since Human Rights Activists Organistations like Amnesty International seems to be
terrorists in the view of Turkey, I guess we will have a hard time finding common ground.

 

[-SINAN-]

Since Human Rights Activists Organistations like Amnesty International seems to be
terrorists in the view of Turkey, I guess we will have a hard time finding common ground.

You know i'm talking about PKK.

 

[Penguin]

Guys, i'm not gonna enter fruitless discussion with you.

Bottom line is; as long as you keep harboring terrorists in your countries, MIT will try to take them out.

Hava a nice day.

It would be fruitless, indeed, esp. since you are convinced we are 'harboring' (As in: aiding and abetting. Which implies:, sharing the criminal intent of the object that actually commits the crime, without necessarily being physically present at the scene of the committed crime.) Which clearly is not the case.

You will have no objection then to any Western/Western European intelligence service operating in fashion similar to MIT inside Turkey when that country harbors terrorist groups within its borders, right?
Read http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/172908/sec_id/172908

Let me remind that an intelligence agency is a government agency responsible for the collection, analysis, and exploitation of information in support of law enforcement, national security, military, and foreign policy objectives.

While some agencies have been or are involved in assassination, arms trafficking, coups d'état, and the placement of misinformation (propaganda) as well as other covert operations, in order to support their own or their governments' interests, one can question whether extrajudicial killings (the killing of a person by governmental authorities without the sanction of any judicial proceeding or legal process, thus bypass the due process of the legal jurisdiction in which they occur) are part of the prescribed role of intelligence agencies.

Extrajudicial killings often target leading political, trade union, dissident, religious, and social figures and are only those carried out by the state government or other state authorities like the armed forces or police, as extra-legal fulfillment of their prescribed role.