Tunisian Armed Forces ( Pictures & Videos )

[Philip the Arab]

I see Tunisia has a lack of dedicated IFVs so do you think they could buy some from Jordan?
Jordan offers an 8x8 on a Tatra truck chassis that is currently armed with a 30mm cannon from the FV101 Scimitar. At least 50 are planned to be built with more in the future.
It offers STANAG 4569 KE L3 (7.62mm resistant) but is to upgradeable to STANAG L4 (14.5mm or about the same as the Stryker)
There are two versions with one being the APC armed with 7.62mm or 12.7mm that can carry 8+2 troops.


Al-Mared 8x8

I could see Tunisia operating this as an IFV with the same 30mm but with either the Jadara Terminator (Jordanian ATGM) or other ATGMs. I assume its less expensive than most European and American IFVs so its a good option for Tunisia in my opinion.
Also, in the future could be operated with 105mm. It looks weird but it functions well.

APC version-

 

[HannibalBarca]

I see Tunisia has a lack of dedicated IFVs so do you think they could buy some from Jordan?
Jordan offers an 8x8 on a Tatra truck chassis that is currently armed with a 30mm cannon from the FV101 Scimitar. At least 50 are planned to be built with more in the future.
It offers STANAG 4569 KE L3 (7.62mm resistant) but is to upgradeable to STANAG L4 (14.5mm or about the same as the Stryker)
There are two versions with one being the APC armed with 7.62mm or 12.7mm that can carry 8+2 troops.


Al-Mared 8x8

I could see Tunisia operating this as an IFV with the same 30mm but with either the Jadara Terminator (Jordanian ATGM) or other ATGMs. I assume its less expensive than most European and American IFVs so its a good option for Tunisia in my opinion.
Also, in the future could be operated with 105mm. It looks weird but it functions well.

APC version-

If IFV they need, they will mostly go for TR ones.
TN has little exchange/relation with Jordan. So military procurement will be unlikely.

 

[Philip the Arab]

If IFV they need, they will mostly go for TR ones.
TN has little exchange/relation with Jordan. So military procurement will be unlikely.

Too bad why is the relationship not developed if you know? I hate how Turkey has the monopoly on armored vehicles in the Middle East.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Too bad why is the relationship not developed if you know? I hate how Turkey has the monopoly on armored vehicles in the Middle East.

Relationship is restricted because economical exchange is limited.
TR monopoly is because of them being technological matured in comparison to Arab industry. And most of Arab countries who do have a defence industry are also shy in promoting their equipment.

 

[fachfouch]

France also is another seller

 

[Mootaz-khelifi]

France also is another seller

never trusted france never will ...i prefer italian / german / turkish / british / american but nt french

 

[Philip the Arab]

How about the UAE? The UAE offers a brand new 8x8 called the Wahash which offers STANAG 4569 level 4 protection all around and with add on armor can go up to STANAG 4569 level 5 (25mm frontal resistant)
Level 4
Kinetic Energy
14.5×114mm AP / B32 at 200 meters with 911 m/s[1]

Angle: azimuth 360°; elevation 0°

Artillery[edit]
155 mm High Explosive at 30 m

Grenade and Mine Blast Threat
10 kg (explosive mass) Blast AT Mine:
4a – Mine Explosion pressure activated under any wheel or track location.
4b – Mine Explosion under center.

It was released at IDEX 2019 was designed by South African engineers but is fully owned and manufactured by the UAE. It offers better protection than the Otokar Arma at 14.5mm resistant while the Arma is 12.7mm resistant and is cheaper to my knowledge. You said Turkey matured better than Arab countries but this may change your mind. There are two versions right now being APC and IFV and the vehicle is amphibious

From what I got the Arma can only resist 7.62. My bad.

"No details have been released on its ballistic protection, but since it is required to be amphibious, armouring is not expected to exceed STANAG 4569 Level II, but its relatively high 425 mm ground clearance should help achieve mine protection to Level IIIB or higher. ARMA's ballistic and anti-mine protection is provided by high hardness monocoque steel hull and all personnel is seated on anti- mine seats"

It kind of looks like the United States Marine Corps ACV.

 

[HannibalBarca]

How about the UAE? The UAE offers a brand new 8x8 called the Wahash which offers STANAG 4569 level 4 protection all around and with add on armor can go up to STANAG 4569 level 5 (25mm frontal resistant)
Level 4
Kinetic Energy
14.5×114mm AP / B32 at 200 meters with 911 m/s[1]

Angle: azimuth 360°; elevation 0°

Artillery[edit]
155 mm High Explosive at 30 m

Grenade and Mine Blast Threat
10 kg (explosive mass) Blast AT Mine:
4a – Mine Explosion pressure activated under any wheel or track location.
4b – Mine Explosion under center.

It was released at IDEX 2019 was designed by South African engineers but is fully owned and manufactured by the UAE. It offers better protection than the Otokar Arma at 14.5mm resistant while the Arma is 12.7mm resistant and is cheaper to my knowledge. You said Turkey matured better than Arab countries but this may change your mind. There are two versions right now being APC and IFV and the vehicle is amphibious

From what I got the Arma can only resist 7.62. My bad.

"No details have been released on its ballistic protection, but since it is required to be amphibious, armouring is not expected to exceed STANAG 4569 Level II, but its relatively high 425 mm ground clearance should help achieve mine protection to Level IIIB or higher. ARMA's ballistic and anti-mine protection is provided by high hardness monocoque steel hull and all personnel is seated on anti- mine seats"

National IFV program of UAE is OTOKAR... a Turkish Defense Company...
And the Role of an IFV is not always meant to be protected as a Tank, since it's mission is different.

So, for TN... if they put ahead an IFV program... Will choose a Country, who got a mature Defense industry and Own their intellectual property in full.
And UAE products are also not cheap in comparison to their peers...

And if they choose TR for that, I'm pretty sure they will wait BMC IFV variant of go for FNSS, instead of OTOKAR with Arma variant...

 

[Philip the Arab]

National IFV program of UAE is OTOKAR... a Turkish Defense Company...
And the Role of an IFV is not always meant to be protected as a Tank, since it's mission is different.

So, for TN... if they put ahead an IFV program... Will choose a Country, who got a mature Defense industry and Own their intellectual property in full.
And UAE products are also not cheap in comparison to their peers...

And if they choose TR for that, I'm pretty sure they will wait BMC IFV variant of go for FNSS, instead of OTOKAR with Arma variant...

Of course its role is different but its contemporary role is to fight with tanks against enemy tanks and IFVs and it needs to be able to at least take auto cannon rounds. The intellectual property is owned in full since the engineers were just hired to design it and weren't from any specific company. Are you sure they aren't cheaper than Turkish products though? I mean your right the UAE defense industry isn't super mature but its maturing a whole lot faster than other defense industries in the region but is catching up with Caracal, Tawazun, Barij, EDIC, etc. The company that makes this vehicle Calidus is 3 years old and already have a plane, and a IFV coming out.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Of course its role is different but its contemporary role is to fight with tanks against enemy tanks and IFVs and it needs to be able to at least take auto cannon rounds. The intellectual property is owned in full since the engineers were just hired to design it and weren't from any specific company. Are you sure they aren't cheaper than Turkish products though? I mean your right the UAE defense industry isn't super mature but its maturing a whole lot faster than other defense industries in the region but is catching up with Caracal, Tawazun, Barij, EDIC, etc. The company that makes this vehicle Calidus is 3 years old and already have a plane, and a IFV coming out.

The Thing is with Private companies like that... they are "Selling" a concept. And are waiting for a Country to buy their "Concept", therefore it's a bet.
Even UAE didn't choose them "yet" but TR OTOKAR ones. Therefore they lack "the sponsor" to be able to sell to other foreign countries who do have choices in number from Mature/Proven projects, Like in this case TR.

UAE Def industry isn't mature yet. They are doing the effort, like their Nimr lineup, by giving a lot of "Help/Gifts" to foreign countries to buy it, like Localization/Intellectual share etc... Like we saw with Algeria.

Unfortunately, Today, Arab Def industry isn't mature yet, neither is protected from Foreign limitation, since most of their product is either bought intellectual property or under licence, Therefore a country like TN per exemple, who is right now building it's entire Army, can't afford to waste money, that is extremely limited to them, into concept or not mature enough projects/Equipements.

So, yes, TR def industry is for TN a better choice. But TN is also buying from the US/GER/ITA etc... for equipment that are "More mature/proven" than TR ones. Every cents count, so paying a little more and be sure to have something better is today TN motto in regards to def needs.

 

[Philip the Arab]

The Thing is with Private companies like that... they are "Selling" a concept. And are waiting for a Country to buy their "Concept", therefore it's a bet.
Even UAE didn't choose them "yet" but TR OTOKAR ones. Therefore they lack "the sponsor" to be able to sell to other foreign countries who do have choices in number from Mature/Proven projects, Like in this case TR.

UAE Def industry isn't mature yet. They are doing the effort, like their Nimr lineup, by giving a lot of "Help/Gifts" to foreign countries to buy it, like Localization/Intellectual share etc... Like we saw with Algeria.

Unfortunately, Today, Arab Def industry isn't mature yet, neither is protected from Foreign limitation, since most of their product is either bought intellectual property or under licence, Therefore a country like TN per exemple, who is right now building it's entire Army, can't afford to waste money, that is extremely limited to them, into concept or not mature enough projects/Equipements.

So, yes, TR def industry is for TN a better choice. But TN is also buying from the US/GER/ITA etc... for equipment that are "More mature/proven" than TR ones. Every cents count, so paying a little more and be sure to have something better is today TN motto in regards to def needs.

And if it gets sales will Tunisia purchase it? Then I assume the vehicle will be matured enough. Or for example it is combat proven in Yemen will it be good enough for Tunisia to say we can use that because it has proven itself.

 

[HannibalBarca]

And if it gets sales will Tunisia purchase it? Then I assume the vehicle will be matured enough. Or for example it is combat proven in Yemen will it be good enough for Tunisia to say we can use that because it has proven itself.

If the Product equal it's competitors whatever in Design/Test and give the same guarantee than other competitors, aka Pedigree... then Why not.
But tbh, this particular IFV has little chance, The IFV market is well furnished, by Combat proven ones at a the very interesting price AND State backed (and everything that goes with it, Guarantees/loans/manufacturing rights etc...)

 

[Philip the Arab]

If the Product equal it's competitors whatever in Design/Test and give the same guarantee than other competitors, aka Pedigree... then Why not.
But tbh, this particular IFV has little chance, The IFV market is well furnished, by Combat proven ones at a the very interesting price AND State backed (and everything that goes with it, Guarantees/loans/manufacturing rights etc...)

I see what you are saying for sure. Honestly what I want to see is a multi-national corporation with Arab countries that can offer something such as a chassis for example on this, an IFV turret like from Jordan, and maybe Saudi Arabia or other Gulf nations that can offer cash. Now if they would all make the vehicle together and have a guarantee to buy it as with something like the Eurofighter Typhoon and how the nations that participated all bought the Typhoon they would first have a great number made at something like a minimum of a thousand vehicles and second have a lot of potential customers in friendly Arab states that could get licensed production. After all most of the Arab nations know if the supplier can't supply your vehicles they won't be able to move. You tell me if it would be realistic with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE, Kuwait, and maybe even Egypt which has the manufacturing capabilities to supply to all of Africa.

Jordan could provide this unmanned turret.

UAE could provide this chassis.

And Saudi Arabia and the rest could provide money, and manufacturing capabilities but I'm not sure if they could offer anything but I could be wrong. A UAV would be an interesting capability that could be integrated as Turkey is planning to do.

I mean just think about it. All their IFVs are getting old like BMP-3, M113 based one. It would be cheaper to band together and make one common IFV they can all operate that is cheaper with equal capabilities as competitors.

 

[HannibalBarca]

I see what you are saying for sure. Honestly what I want to see is a multi-national corporation with Arab countries that can offer something such as a chassis for example on this, an IFV turret like from Jordan, and maybe Saudi Arabia or other Gulf nations that can offer cash. Now if they would all make the vehicle together and have a guarantee to buy it as with something like the Eurofighter Typhoon and how the nations that participated all bought the Typhoon they would first have a great number made at something like a minimum of a thousand vehicles and second have a lot of potential customers in friendly Arab states that could get licensed production. After all most of the Arab nations know if the supplier can't supply your vehicles they won't be able to move. You tell me if it would be realistic with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE, Kuwait, and maybe even Egypt which has the manufacturing capabilities to supply to all of Africa.

Jordan could provide this unmanned turret.

UAE could provide this chassis.

And Saudi Arabia and the rest could provide money, and manufacturing capabilities but I'm not sure if they could offer anything but I could be wrong. A UAV would be an interesting capability that could be integrated as Turkey is planning to do.

Having an Arab Defense Consortium is a nice Idea, But it's not happening.
Not that they don't like each others or that they are unable to work together...
It's just they don't need to.

Such type of equipment isn't Difficult to make, neither need Billions for that... Shell and such aren't the most important part in it... The Engine /Turret etc are... and it's something NO Arab state master... neither Own at 100%.

And no Arab state Have an Industry to create one on it's own right now. Therefore What I will like is a consortium for that particular part... Like Engines of all types/Turrets/Protection and so on. The shell isn't important.

And last... Arab state do not feel the urge to make such move...since most doors are open to them... That's the cancer of our region...they are too dependent on others...they just have to sign a check and get what they wish..;That's why I hope, that we , in the future be blocked to purchase those things from foreigners..;Maybe at that moment they will move their fat *** and finally work on it.

Like TR, who were in that situation few decades ago... But the moment Their supplier begun to play with the "Limit/Block supply button" they finally got it and started to work on making it "in-home" and we see the result today.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Having an Arab Defense Consortium is a nice Idea, But it's not happening.
Not that they don't like each others or that they are unable to work together...
It's just they don't need to.

Such type of equipment isn't Difficult to make, neither need Billions for that... Shell and such aren't the most important part in it... The Engine /Turret etc are... and it's something NO Arab state master... neither Own at 100%.

And no Arab state Have an Industry to create one on it's own right now. Therefore What I will like is a consortium for that particular part... Like Engines of all types/Turrets/Protection and so on. The shell isn't important.

I mean Jordan is developing one turret right now according to KADDB indigenously as most of their other products are. Don't you think a partner could work for engines or even reverse engineering? In my opinion China would be the best option for licensed production or TOT since they are more lenient for more money and as far as reverse engineering goes China, Iran, and many other countries do it. Also, a partnership would work better for future projects if say an IFV was made after that more vehicles like tanks using the unmanned Falcon turret.

If something like this did happen would Tunisia purchase the product if it reached parity with other IFVS and if it was offered at a discount or financed by some Gulf country as Saudi Arabia loves doing. And on top of that UAE has the capability for vehicle production since the Nimr factory could be utilized.






Unmanned Turret
The project aims to design & build a light weight compact turret system with medium caliber cannon as a main weapon to be adaptive for installation on medium wheeled & tracked vehicles currently available in service with JAF or being developed in KADDB for future.

FEATURES
The main turret features & systems include:

Primary armament MK 44 30 / 40 Bushmaster cannon
Secondary armament M240 MG.
Counter Measure Smoke grenade launcher.
Sensor Suite Thermal, day camera, laser range finder, laser pointer
Turret Control system Electric traverse & elevation drive system.
Basket Unmanned Turret
Protection level Skin armour satisfies STANAG I protection level.
Protection upgrades as per customer & weight limitations.

SUGGESTED
Primary armament caliber (mm) 30
Secondary armament caliber (mm) 7.62
Counter Measure (mm) 6 X 66
Elevation -10° - 45°
Traverse 360°
Rate of fire (rounds /min) 30
Total weight Up to 2000 kgs combat weight


I'm going to make a thread about this and get other peoples opinions on this but thanks for yours.