Tunisian Armed Forces ( Pictures & Videos )

[HannibalBarca]

I mean Jordan is developing one turret right now according to KADDB indigenously as most of their other products are. Don't you think a partner could work for engines or even reverse engineering? In my opinion China would be the best option for licensed production or TOT since they are more lenient for more money and as far as reverse engineering goes China, Iran, and many other countries do it. Also, a partnership would work better for future projects if say an IFV was made after that more vehicles like tanks using the unmanned Falcon turret.

If something like this did happen would Tunisia purchase the product if it reached parity with other IFVS and if it was offered at a discount or financed by some Gulf country as Saudi Arabia loves doing. And on top of that UAE has the capability for vehicle production since the Nimr factory could be utilized.






Unmanned Turret
The project aims to design & build a light weight compact turret system with medium caliber cannon as a main weapon to be adaptive for installation on medium wheeled & tracked vehicles currently available in service with JAF or being developed in KADDB for future.

FEATURES
The main turret features & systems include:

Primary armament MK 44 30 / 40 Bushmaster cannon
Secondary armament M240 MG.
Counter Measure Smoke grenade launcher.
Sensor Suite Thermal, day camera, laser range finder, laser pointer
Turret Control system Electric traverse & elevation drive system.
Basket Unmanned Turret
Protection level Skin armour satisfies STANAG I protection level.
Protection upgrades as per customer & weight limitations.

SUGGESTED
Primary armament caliber (mm) 30
Secondary armament caliber (mm) 7.62
Counter Measure (mm) 6 X 66
Elevation -10° - 45°
Traverse 360°
Rate of fire (rounds /min) 30
Total weight Up to 2000 kgs combat weight


I'm going to make a thread about this and get other peoples opinions on this but thanks for yours.

No country TOT their engines, even Small Diesel ones for cars. China had to do the Job for decades and some spying from here and there to achieve it, and Even her with all her money and Industrial power still can't rival Western ones...
What Arab countries can do... is just a Lego work... Take parts from here and there and assembly.
But it's still not enough, since such product will be under the will of the "foreign" provider... and not immune to sanctions/Ban/limitation.

The Arabs have to start somewhere... and First is Licencing and learning from it by Training Engineers and Dev their Industry, whatever it's Defense related or not...It's all Form of Industry that need to be dev...
After few decades, In parallel of Licencing, they Dev their own thing..;and little by little switch to it...

Then When each Arab countries reach an interesting level of Engineering, they can get into a consortium where each member will supply a Knowledge that the other don't have or have limited knowledge on...
And then they can do whatever they want...Till then it's meaningless and a waste of Time and Money.

 

[Philip the Arab]

No country TOT their engines, even Small Diesel ones for cars. China had to do the Job for decades and some spying from here and there to achieve it, and Even her with all her money and Industrial power still can't rival Western ones...
What Arab countries can do... is just a Lego work... Take parts from here and there and assembly.
But it's still not enough, since such product will be under the will of the "foreign" provider... and not immune to sanctions/Ban/limitation.

The Arabs have to start somewhere... and First is Licencing and learning from it by Training Engineers and Dev their Industry, whatever it's Defense related or not...It's all Form of Industry that need to be dev...
After few decades, In parallel of Licencing, they Dev their own thing..;and little by little switch to it...

Then When each Arab countries reach an interesting level of Engineering, they can get into a consortium where each member will supply a Knowledge that the other don't have or have limited knowledge on...
And then they can do whatever they want...Till then it's meaningless and a waste of Time and Money.

Will reverse engineering of engines not work? Iran does that all the time and the Arab countries all have IFVs/APCs that they could reverse engineer. As long as the country does not find out at about or doesn't care it will work.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Will reverse engineering of engines not work? Iran does that all the time and the Arab countries all have IFVs/APCs that they could reverse engineer. As long as the country does not find out at about or doesn't care it will work.

Reverse engineer need an Industry as matured as if you build it yourself.
Reverse Engineer is a good way to gain years of R&D...

 

[fachfouch]

 

[Mootaz-khelifi]

@Philip the Arab other thing goes into play in military sales is relations ... and now tunisia is not at best relations with gulf states specially UAE ... the reasion is the Emarati interference with our Politics

 

[Philip the Arab]

@Philip the Arab other thing goes into play in military sales is relations ... and now tunisia is not at best relations with gulf states specially UAE ... the reasion is the Emarati interference with our Politics

I understand what you are saying Gulf states interfere with Tunisian politics in their favor but they just don't want Iran to gain influence right now. Everyone is vying for power right now and nothing is going to stop it. Again, Jordan would be the best option for Tunisia IF Tunisia wants to develop a defense industry however unlikely that is.
Also, if Tunisia needs its M60s modernized Jordan has the Phoenix which pretty much makes the tank brand new with the addition of a 120m gun and an upgrade only costs about 750 thousand dollars.

The M60 Phoenix is a Jordanian upgrade of the M60A3 main battle tank. It was developed by the King Abdullah II Design and Development Bureau (KADDB). This tank was first offered in 2004. The ageing M60A3 tank poses little threat to modern main battle tanks, due to inferior armament and poor protection. The M60 Phoenix is a cost-effective modular upgrade package with increased lethality, mobility and survivability. A total of 182 Jordanian M60A3 tanks were reportedly upgraded to the Phoenix standard.

Overall the Jordanian M60 Phoenix resembles an Israeli Sabra main battle tank, which is also an upgraded version of the M60A3. Armor protection of the M60 Phoenix was significantly increased. Add-on armor packages were added to the hull and turret. The Level III/IV upgrade package involves installation of explosive reactive armor. This MBT is fitted with a laser warning receiver and smoke grenade dischargers. Vehicle is also fitted with automatic fire suppression and NBC protection systems. It is worth mentioning that protection of the M60 Phoenix can be reconfigured depending on mission requirements.

A 105 mm rifled gun was replaced by a Swiss RUAG CTG fully-stabilized 120 mm/L50 smoothbore gun. It is compatible with all standard NATO 120 mm tank ammunition. The Jordanian M60 Phoenix is notable for packing heavier punch than other upgunned M60s, that have 120 mm/L44 guns. Firepower and lethality were improved significantly. The Phoenix can fire accurately on the move, while the previous M60A3 was unable to engage targets while moving. The new gun is fitted with load assisting system. It is claimed that the M60 Phoenix has a maxim rate of fire increased to 6-10 rounds per minute.

Secondary armament consists of coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun. Another 12.7 mm machine gun mounted in the commander's cupola.

The M60 Phoenix is fitted with Raytheon's integrated digital fire control system. It has improved first round hit probability, comparing with its predecessor. The Phoenix is also fitted with digital data bus.

The M60 Phoenix has a crew of four, including commander, gunner, loader and driver.

This tank is powered by the General Dynamics diesel engine, developing 950 horsepower. It has improved acceleration and cross-country performance comparing with the M60A3. Furthermore improved hydropneumatic suspension system allowed to increase weight of the M60 Phoenix to 62-63 tonnes without significant loss of mobility.

 

[HannibalBarca]

I understand what you are saying Gulf states interfere with Tunisian politics in their favor but they just don't want Iran to gain influence right now. Everyone is vying for power right now and nothing is going to stop it. Again, Jordan would be the best option for Tunisia IF Tunisia wants to develop a defense industry however unlikely that is.
Also, if Tunisia needs its M60s modernized Jordan has the Phoenix which pretty much makes the tank brand new with the addition of a 120m gun and an upgrade only costs about 750 thousand dollars.

The M60 Phoenix is a Jordanian upgrade of the M60A3 main battle tank. It was developed by the King Abdullah II Design and Development Bureau (KADDB). This tank was first offered in 2004. The ageing M60A3 tank poses little threat to modern main battle tanks, due to inferior armament and poor protection. The M60 Phoenix is a cost-effective modular upgrade package with increased lethality, mobility and survivability. A total of 182 Jordanian M60A3 tanks were reportedly upgraded to the Phoenix standard.

Overall the Jordanian M60 Phoenix resembles an Israeli Sabra main battle tank, which is also an upgraded version of the M60A3. Armor protection of the M60 Phoenix was significantly increased. Add-on armor packages were added to the hull and turret. The Level III/IV upgrade package involves installation of explosive reactive armor. This MBT is fitted with a laser warning receiver and smoke grenade dischargers. Vehicle is also fitted with automatic fire suppression and NBC protection systems. It is worth mentioning that protection of the M60 Phoenix can be reconfigured depending on mission requirements.

A 105 mm rifled gun was replaced by a Swiss RUAG CTG fully-stabilized 120 mm/L50 smoothbore gun. It is compatible with all standard NATO 120 mm tank ammunition. The Jordanian M60 Phoenix is notable for packing heavier punch than other upgunned M60s, that have 120 mm/L44 guns. Firepower and lethality were improved significantly. The Phoenix can fire accurately on the move, while the previous M60A3 was unable to engage targets while moving. The new gun is fitted with load assisting system. It is claimed that the M60 Phoenix has a maxim rate of fire increased to 6-10 rounds per minute.

Secondary armament consists of coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun. Another 12.7 mm machine gun mounted in the commander's cupola.

The M60 Phoenix is fitted with Raytheon's integrated digital fire control system. It has improved first round hit probability, comparing with its predecessor. The Phoenix is also fitted with digital data bus.

The M60 Phoenix has a crew of four, including commander, gunner, loader and driver.

This tank is powered by the General Dynamics diesel engine, developing 950 horsepower. It has improved acceleration and cross-country performance comparing with the M60A3. Furthermore improved hydropneumatic suspension system allowed to increase weight of the M60 Phoenix to 62-63 tonnes without significant loss of mobility.

Iran has nothing to do in Tunisia... TN have less "relation" to IRAN than KSA or UAE...
Their interference is in regards to Turkey/Qatar...

 

[Philip the Arab]

Iran has nothing to do in Tunisia... TN have less "relation" to IRAN than KSA or UAE...
Their interference is in regards to Turkey/Qatar...

Did I say Iran? I thought I erased that but what I was trying to say was that they are trying to get more influence by using a checkbook as Saudi Arabia does with 500 million dollar loans.
What do you think of the M60 upgrade? From my calculations at 750 thousand per upgrade times 59 M60A3s is 44 million dollars. The capabilities would at least extend the service life and make the tank able to actually fight other armored vehicles in the 21st century.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Did I say Iran? I thought I erased that but what I was trying to say was that they are trying to get more influence by using a checkbook as Saudi Arabia does with 500 million dollar loans.
What do you think of the M60 upgrade? From my calculations at 750 thousand per upgrade times 59 M60A3s is 44 million dollars. The capabilities would at least extend the service life and make the tank able to actually fight other armored vehicles in the 21st century.

Actually no Money came... All the Gulf Promises were only "Words".
Few years ago Qatar pledges few Billions... But with no surprise... Nothing happen...Same for KSA... Nothing...
All of TN loans are from the UE/IMF... "Brothers " is only when you don't need them... That's why Gulf states are not seen as good "Allies" neither reliable... Since they can't hold any promises that they made themselves...

Anyway... As for M60, I think upgrading them is a waste of money... we do not have much of them and most of it weren't used for decades... I'm pretty sure out of them maybe 60% or even less are ready to use...
Right now...we do not need Tanks, but we need to build the Army from the bottom... Before putting Millions in something we will not use.
You have to understand that prior to 2011 TN had no army, at least in what we think an "Army" should look like.
But the M60 upgrade is an interesting one on paper, but for TN it isn't needed for our current needs.

 

[bsruzm]

they just don't want Iran to gain influence right now.

Iran has nothing to do in Tunisia... TN have less "relation" to IRAN than KSA or UAE...
Their interference is in regards to Turkey/Qatar...

 

[Philip the Arab]

It was a typo. Chill out.

 

[Mootaz-khelifi]

in ur idea of Tunisia goes to upgrade the M60 tank i would say the Turkish new Upgrade the M60 A3M looks better it's a full modernization with added protection

but who knows we might get a new tank ( after moderenizing / americanizing the army )

 

[Philip the Arab]

in ur idea of Tunisia goes to upgrade the M60 tank i would say the Turkish new Upgrade the M60 A3M looks better it's a full modernization with added protection

but who knows we might get a new tank ( after moderenizing / americanizing the army )

Don't you think price comes into play? I'm sure this thing is way more expensive than $750000 USD per upgrade as the Phoenix is considering the Sabra was about a million per tank. 59*750 thousand=44,250,000
The M60 Phoenix is tested and works while I assume this is just in its beginning stages and I doubt it will finish since the Altay is being produced but I think you just like the way it looks as the Sabra looks like the Phoenix but is more advanced then the M60A3M.
Honestly, what I wanted to see was a Falcon turret used on a M60 which would have made the system have a low profile, and on top of that it was unmanned which offered greater protection for the crew. Too bad the turret will not be used unless of course an indigenous Arab or Jordanian tank is made.

As far as buying a new tank goes Tunisia needs a whole lot of money for that which will eat at their defense budget considering how low it is. With the upgrades I propose the service life of the tank should be extended by at least 20 years past the date since it has similar capabilities to NATO tanks and can compete with modern tanks today.

 

[bsruzm]

in ur idea of Tunisia goes to upgrade the M60 tank i would say the Turkish new Upgrade the M60 A3M looks better it's a full modernization with added protection

but who knows we might get a new tank ( after moderenizing / americanizing the army )

 

[Philip the Arab]

I'm going to assume the Sabra is better tbh.