Tunisia - References to Islam will not be included in the new constitution.

Separation of church and state is a great first step.

Sadiq Belaid, charged by the President Kais Saied with rewriting Tunisia's constitution said on Monday that he would present a draft stripped of any reference to Islam, arguing it was to prevent political "extremism".

Tunisia: New constitution 'will remove reference to Islam'

Sadeq Belaid, who once taught President Kais Saied, said the move was to prevent political 'extremism'

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[VCheng]

Separation of church and state is a great first step.

Sadiq Belaid, charged by the President Kais Saied with rewriting Tunisia's constitution said on Monday that he would present a draft stripped of any reference to Islam, arguing it was to prevent political "extremism".

Tunisia: New constitution 'will remove reference to Islam'

Sadeq Belaid, who once taught President Kais Saied, said the move was to prevent political 'extremism'

www.middleeasteye.net

Another country sees the light and the wisdom of separating religion and state. May be some day Pakistan will get to this point. May be. Some day in the future. One can hope.

 

[LakeHawk180]

Another country sees the light and the wisdom of separating religion and state. May be some day Pakistan will get to this point. May be. Some day in the future. One can hope.

It’s a good hope and public consciousness can be moved (in theory) by a truly transformational leader. Tough sell for active generations at this time though — for most, I’m given to understand Islam is the sole rationale for creation of Pakistan.

 

[_Nabil_]

Lolz, Kaies Saïd will step up and refuse this change, will be seen as protector of Islam

Just a cheap move, we have much more challenges to deal with than this constitution matter.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Separation of church and state is a great first step.

Sadiq Belaid, charged by the President Kais Saied with rewriting Tunisia's constitution said on Monday that he would present a draft stripped of any reference to Islam, arguing it was to prevent political "extremism".

Tunisia: New constitution 'will remove reference to Islam'

Sadeq Belaid, who once taught President Kais Saied, said the move was to prevent political 'extremism'

www.middleeasteye.net

Good. So Tunisia has accepted there is only one citadel of Islam and Allah's guardian on earth - Pakistan.

 

[LakeHawk180]

Lolz, Kaies Saïd will step up and refuse this change, will be seen as protector of Islam

Just a cheap move, we have much more challenges to deal with than this constitution matter.

I guess we will see. You have a large, active secular leaning demographic who would prefer this. Hell, if that were not the case Ennahda would be in power today and wouldn’t have had to backtrack on their fundamentalist policies (eg- family code, sharia’s applicability etc)

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I guess we will see. You have a large, active secular leaning demographic who would prefer this. Hell, if that were not the case Ennahda would be in power today and wouldn’t have had to backtrack on their fundamentalist policies (eg- family code, sharia’s applicability etc)

Tunisians are the Turks of the Islamic world - always trying to distance themselves from rest of the Islamic rif raff. Pakistani's are the Somalis of the Islamic world - always waiting to blow themselves up in cause of Islam.

 

[_Nabil_]

I guess we will see. You have a large, active secular leaning demographic who would prefer this. Hell, if that were not the case Ennahda would be in power today and wouldn’t have had to backtrack on their fundamentalist policies (eg- family code, sharia’s applicability etc)

Everyone voted for Ennahdha in 2011, they turned to be highly corrupted and a "non Islamic" party.

They have nothing to do with Islam, they will sell their mothers and fathers to stay in power.

People discovered their true hideous face and dropped them from multiple elections then in 24/07/2021 through manifestations.

In 25/07/2021, the president stepped in, dropped the constitution of 2014, freezed the parliament and took all the powers.

10 years of Ennahdha coalitions and mafia like governance broke Economically the country.

Tbh, all the politic parties in Tunisia are highly corrupted and interlinked.

Constitution of 2014 is already secular, there is only " The religion of the state is Islam" in article 1, the rest is almost French constitution.

 

[Corruptistan]

@_Nabil_

What is going on here? Even secular countries like Denmark (and most European countries) have some legacy (even many openly acknowledge Christianity as the state religion such as Denmark) of their majority/historical/traditional religion.

Why would a Muslim majority country like Tunisia with 99.99% of the native population being Muslim abolish any ties whatsoever to Islam in the constitution? What exactly will that solve?

Also what is it with many Tunisians in general? From having the highest numbers of ISIS members from abroad (according to many statistics)

Why Tunisia has become the largest source of ISIS’s foreign fighters​

Recent reports claim that more than 3,000 Tunisians have joined the war in Syria and Iraq fighting on the side of the Islamic State. Neelam Deo, Director at Gateway House, discusses the possible reasons of this surge in youth joining the IS from Tunisia.

https://www.gatewayhouse.in/why-tunisia-has-become-the-largest-source-of-isiss-foreign-fighters/

to some extreme secular people? Seems like some contradiction.

A sad development if you ask me.

Another country sees the light and the wisdom of separating religion and state. May be some day Pakistan will get to this point. May be. Some day in the future. One can hope.

So you think that if Pakistan magically removed the name of Islam from our constitution, every single one of our problems would magically be solved?

How do you explain that some of the most prosperous and stable countries on the planet (Western European countries, Scandinavian in particular) proudly have their own religion as their official state religion and have references to their religion in their constitutions and even legislature?

Even the country that you inhabit (USA), "In God We Trust", makes no secret of the importance of religion.

The problem with Pakistan is that we have made Islam into a business and that most of our people are ignorant of Islam and don't follow it properly, hence all the corruption, all the thieves, mayhem and anti-Islamic practices in Pakistan. A total contradiction, all talk and no real action. A secular constitution won't change any of this, I am afraid. Education will.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Everyone voted for Ennahdha in 2011, they turned to be highly corrupted and a "non Islamic" party.

They have nothing to do with Islam, they will sell their mothers and fathers to stay in power.

People discovered their true hideous face and dropped them from multiple elections then in 24/07/2021 through manifestations.

In 25/07/2021, the president stepped in, dropped the constitution of 2014, freezed the parliament and took all the powers.

10 years of Ennahdha coalitions and mafia like governance broke Economically the country.

Tbh, all the politic parties in Tunisia are highly corrupted and interlinked.

Constitution of 2014 is already secular, there is only " The religion of the state is Islam" in article 1, the rest is almost French constitution.

Have Tunisia and Algeria hever thought of a merger? Or a confederation?

 

[_Nabil_]

Have Tunisia and Algeria hever thought of a merger? Or a confederation?

Should be great if it happens, but leaders from each country stick to their privileges.

Tunisia and Algeria complement each other.

And there is a strong bond between people's from each country.

 

[_Nabil_]

@_Nabil_

What is going on here? Even secular countries like Denmark (and most European countries) have some legacy (even many openly acknowledge Christianity as the state religion such as Denmark) of their majority/historical/traditional religion.

Absolutely true

Why would a Muslim majority country like Tunisia with 99.99% of the native population being Muslim abolish any ties whatsoever to Islam in the constitution? What exactly will that solve?

Will solve nothing

Also what is it with many Tunisians in general? From having the highest numbers of ISIS members from abroad (according to many statistics)

Why Tunisia has become the largest source of ISIS’s foreign fighters​

Recent reports claim that more than 3,000 Tunisians have joined the war in Syria and Iraq fighting on the side of the Islamic State. Neelam Deo, Director at Gateway House, discusses the possible reasons of this surge in youth joining the IS from Tunisia.

https://www.gatewayhouse.in/why-tunisia-has-become-the-largest-source-of-isiss-foreign-fighters/

to some extreme secular people? Seems like some contradiction.

A sad development if you ask me.

My personal point of view:

1- Bad understanding of Islam in the youth population

2- Ennahdha encouraging people to join terrorist groups in Syria.

3- Remember the first "Friends of Syria" meeting happened unfortunately in Tunisia.

It was almost "officially" stated that Bashar should be ousted (KSA, Qatar, Turkey, EU, U.S.A, UEA, ... Pushing in that way) in Tunisian narrative.


When you are 19-22, you are easily brainwashed by local medias, Al Jazeera, Al Arabia TV, Al Hadath, Sky News Arabia, fatwas from Al Karadhawi (That devil was really appreciated and respected in Tunisia), the imam in your Mosque, it's been a hell of propaganda

I don't blame the youths, but the whole system, specially Tunisian that didn't protected them.

The problem with Pakistan is that we have made Islam into a business and that most of our people are ignorant of Islam and don't follow it properly, hence all the corruption, all the thieves, mayhem and anti-Islamic practices in Pakistan. A total contradiction, all talk and no real action. A secular constitution won't change any of this, I am afraid. Education will.

Well said

 

[_Nabil_]

Ennahda would be in power today and wouldn’t have had to backtrack on their fundamentalist policies (eg- family code, sharia’s applicability etc)

Ennahdha never tried to implement anything related to Islam in constitution.

They were the absolute majority in the constitutional parliament in 2011 and you can see the results in the 2014 Constitution.

They only seek power and business.

 

[Corruptistan]

Absolutely true


Will solve nothing


My personal point of view:

1- Bad understanding of Islam in the youth population

2- Ennahdha encouraging people to join terrorist groups in Syria.

3- Remember the first "Friends of Syria" meeting happened unfortunately in Tunisia.

It was almost "officially" stated that Bashar should be ousted (KSA, Qatar, Turkey, EU, U.S.A, UEA, ... Pushing in that way) in Tunisian narrative.


When you are 19-22, you are easily brainwashed by local medias, Al Jazeera, Al Arabia TV, Al Hadath, Sky News Arabia, fatwas from Al Karadhawi (That devil was really appreciated and respected in Tunisia), the imam in your Mosque, it's been a hell of propaganda

I don't blame the youths, but the whole system, specially Tunisian that didn't protected them.


Well said

Indeed.

Of course not, but it will give a false sense of "accomplishment" for the "I am ashamed of my religion even though I am ignorant of my religion and don't follow it properly and if we abolish any traces of Islam (or religion for that matter) all of our problems will be solved" lot. Sadly nowadays in this strange era that we all are living in, being "progressive" (ironically those are some of the most intolerant people out there) is being anti-Islam or anti-religion and sadly more and more of our people (Muslims) are falling into this dangerous lie.

Thank you for your answers, makes sense.

However we might disagree in regards to Al-Assad and his dictatorship (Ba'athism), I am personally not a fan and I consider that regime to be anti-Muslim. However I have no sympathy for groups like the MB either.

I guess I am just your boring traditional Muslim that understands that there is no contradiction between scientific progress, stability, economic prosperity, peace, stability, harmony and Islam. Rather the opposite. However this requires a educated population. I have friends (local converts) that are highly educated. From doctors to engineers. They put many of our non-converts to shame. My belief has always been that quality over quantity. Same goes for Islam and Muslims.

 

[_Nabil_]

Tunisians are the Turks of the Islamic world - always trying to distance themselves from rest of the Islamic rif raff. Pakistani's are the Somalis of the Islamic world - always waiting to blow themselves up in cause of Islam.

Not really, we Tunisians never cared about constitution, infact we lived from 1957 till 2011 in autocracy, from 2011 till now pseudo democracy in a Banana Republic.

So all this matter is irrelevant, you need true democracy to make the right choices after a national debate and a referendum by the people not decisions by parties or leaders.

In Tunisia, Islam always been in people's hearths, not in some books or regulations.