TTP clash with Haqqanis in North Waziristan

[Devil Soul]

Not allies: 8 dead as TTP, Haqqani Network clash in North Waziristan
By Our Correspondent
Published: April 19, 2012
PESHAWAR: Intense clashes between the Haqqani Network and the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan left at least eight people dead in North Waziristan Agency, local sources said on Thursday.
“Taliban attacked Malik Karim Khan’s tribe late Wednesday night. The tribe resisted the attack, leading to crossfire,” a local resident said, requesting anonymity.
Sources told The Express Tribune that the clash started in the early hours of Thursday and intensified after the deaths of TTP Commander Jehanzeb Khan and Haqqani Commander Qadir Haqqani.
Clashes erupted in the Malik Shadam Khan area of NWA’s Speen Waam district, which shares a border with Afghanistan. Six people, including a woman, were killed by members of the Haqqani Network in the primary clash. In retaliation, two Haqqani Network men were killed and several houses in the area suffered damage due to the use of heavy weaponry.
According to an official of the Mirali Political Administration, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the event, a local tribal elder Gulbuddin was killed in the clash. Gulbuddin was among those tribesmen who were trying to broker a ceasefire between the two parties.
The group continued fighting at the time of filing this report. Sources said the TTP was led by Sattar, who was nominated the commander after his cousin Jehanzeb’s death. The Haqqani Network, they said, is being commandeered by a man named Sangeen.
They said that residents have begun fleeing the area, where both groups have taken positions against each other. Tribal elders and religious clerics are making efforts to broker a ceasefire between the warring groups.
There was no estimate of how many fighters were involved, but sources said the number runs in the hundreds for both groups.
Not allies: 8 dead as TTP, Haqqani Network clash in North Waziristan – The Express Tribune

 

[53fd]

Attacks take place in Afghanistan, for which the Haqqani Network is blamed by the US/NATO Forces. A couple of days later, the TTP, an enemy of the Pakistani state, starts attacking the Haqqani Network.

If the Haqqani Network is a proxy of the ISI, this report guarantees that the TTP is a proxy of the US/NATO Forces, with its safe havens in NE Afghanistan. The same case with Mangal Bagh & the LeI.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

a very interesting and telling headline......

few people know about this, but in Kurram Agency (where it hasnt been so much TTP violence, but more sectarian) it was actually the local tribes that brokered a peace-deal with the Haqqanis. What happened is, Turri and Bangash tribes demanded an end to sectarian attacks and in exchange for cooperation with the Haqqanis - the TTP would be driven out and not be allowed to side with the sectarian groups like SeS and LeJ and their affiliates.

I always for years suspected that TTP and Haqqanis were never allies, but always wondered when it would become evident


well, i guess the evidence is in front of us now.......

TTP and Lashkar e Islam have also been at loggerheads, despite claiming to be on the same side. There's also that ''khorasan'' group which we heard about time to time (the group responsible for the killing for Col. Imam).


TTP and LeI are clearly receiving outside support. Their support inside of the country is extremely fragile. It appears that NO tribes are this time are supporting (even covertly) the TTP. The latter is having bases in Afghanistan for some time now, and NATO has repeatedly ignored our security concerns regarding TTP bases and safehouses across the Durand Line

We should continue to work with all tribes to ensure that all enemies of peace are crushed with an unforgiving iron fist.

 

[53fd]

I am glad that the ISI has reined in on the TTP, splintering them badly, & letting them kill themselves (the TTP-Afridi faction & the LeI) off in their turf wars (in Tirah & other locations); & the LeI (getting killed by the local Lashkars); both foreign proxies. As of now, the tribes have recognized that these are funded & armed from Afghanistan, & there is no support coming from them.

 

[53fd]

Never mind...

 

[Icarus]

More BS.. like the one which said Hakimullah and Wali ur rehman are fighting etc... They are still togather and releasing videos after videos :p

Read the source here: express tribune.. lols.. the same one that said the 2 women were forced converted to islam (the women claimed otherwise, spent weeks away from ANY family contact and STILL decided to remain muslims and go with their husbands). Express Tribune is very very biased and unreliable.




Biggest proof: Bannu Jail Break. Haqqanis and TTP did it togather

TTP and the Haqqanis were never on good terms. Haqqanis have always called for fighting in Pakistan to end, TTP thinks otherwise. Much to your dismay, I observe.

Never realized you were on the planning committee, terrorist sympathizer!
Quote a source for your claim?

 

[53fd]

Never mind...

 

[salmakh84]

TTP and the Haqqanis were never on good terms. Haqqanis have always called for fighting in Pakistan to end, TTP thinks otherwise. Much to your dismay, I observe.

Never realized you were on the planning committee, terrorist sympathizer!
Quote a source for your claim?

Source: http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/CTC-Haqqani-Report_Rassler-Brown-Final_Web.pdf

It tells you how TTP and haqqanis are allies. They facilitate one another :p Or maybe google for a video released by taliban :p has videos of ttp, afghani taliban, alqaeda, haqqanis etc.. all claiming to be one and united and shows each other views on each other, title was: Bunyan um Marsoos

Oh and regarding planning committee, at least I am not a blind follower of ISPR and its thugs

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

seal and mine the God forsaken border with Afghanistan, a lot of the problems would (at least artificially) be solved in the short-medium term

What did the Haqqani network have to do with the Bannu Jail break?

Haqqani network had nothing to do with it. It was TTP and its affiliates/cohorts receiving help across the border.

 

[53fd]

Haqqani network had nothing to do with it. It was TTP and its affiliates/cohorts receiving help across the border.

Of course it had nothing to do with it, just asking the terrorist sympathizer why he said that.

Source: http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/CTC-Haqqani-Report_Rassler-Brown-Final_Web.pdf

It tells you how TTP and haqqanis are allies. They facilitate one another :p Or maybe google for a video released by taliban :p has videos of ttp, afghani taliban, alqaeda, haqqanis etc.. all claiming to be one and united and shows each other views on each other, title was: Bunyan um Marsoos

Oh and regarding planning committee, at least I am not a blind follower of ISPR and its thugs

It's funny that most of the time, you call Western/US sources propaganda, but are quoting from a document by the US Military Academy to support your argument. Make up your mind!!!

 

[Icarus]

Source: http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/CTC-Haqqani-Report_Rassler-Brown-Final_Web.pdf

It tells you how TTP and haqqanis are allies. They facilitate one another :p Or maybe google for a video released by taliban :p has videos of ttp, afghani taliban, alqaeda, haqqanis etc.. all claiming to be one and united and shows each other views on each other, title was: Bunyan um Marsoos

Oh and regarding planning committee, at least I am not a blind follower of ISPR and its thugs

1) I found no part of the text that can provides instances that can validate any possibility of a Haqqani-TTP alliance.
2) The TTP would want to propagate that, try and gain some legitimacy but Mullah Mannan Toor Jan, Spokesperson for the Afghan Taliban already clarified in 2010:
"The (Afghan) Taliban have already clarified that we do not condone any act of war in Pakistan, against it's citizens and against it's forces................We have no franchise operating in Pakistan and we urge the Pakistani Taliban to join the Jihad in Afghanistan or fore sake the use name of Amir-ul-Mominin Mullah Umar as their Amir"
3) Yes, you can follow the TTP at will because you can laugh at the voyeur of terrorist videos, never having the fear that you may become the subject of one, living in USA and supporting terrorism in Pakistan must be a tough deal, eh? Must be a real toll on your nerves, you hypocrite. If you loved the TTP so much and you were really so anti-Americans, then you wouldn't be living with them, you'de be fighting them in Afghanistan.

 

[salmakh84]

I quote from the link I posted,

According to New York
Times journalist Pir Zubair Shah, “when fighters under [Mullah] Nazir or [Hafiz] Gul
Bahadur [the TTP commander in North Waziristan] go in [to Afghanistan], they operate
under the Haqqani network and need them to allow access.”
26
* *Other sources confirm that Mullah Nazir is close to Sirajuddin Haqqani and that Gul Bahadur “coordinates
closely with the Haqqani network on both strategy and operations in Afghanistan.”
27
***
There is also a qualitative dimension to which TTP fighters have fought with the
Haqqani network in Afghanistan.
28
* *Baitullah Mehsud was a close ally of key Haqqani
commanders and fought with the Taliban (likely under Jalaluddin in the Shomali Plains
north of Kabul), and both Baitullah and his successor Hakimullah Mehsud helped the
Afghan Taliban to regroup after the U.S. invasion.
29
* * In short biographical notes
allegedly written by Hakimullah Mehsud, the TTP leader emphasized that he, Baitullah
Mehsud and Abdullah Mehsud (killed in 2007) fought together with Mullah Sangeen, a
key Haqqani commander, in Khost province.
30
**To facilitate the integration between the
Haqqani network and the TTP integration, senior Haqqani leaders are known to vouch
for Pakistanis who want to gain access to fronts in Khost and individuals like Qari Amil
(deceased) coordinate this type of integration in the field.
31


26~31 are different sources (copy pasting:
27
**Hakimullah Mehsud and Hafiz Gul Bahadur reportedly have close ties as well. See Imtiaz Gul, The
Most Dangerous Place: Pakistan’s Lawless Frontier, (New York: Viking, 2010).**
28
**For one perspective, see Claudio Franco, “The Tehrik‐e‐Taliban Pakistan,” in Decoding the New Taliban:
Insights from the Afghan Field, ed. Antonio Giustozzi (New York: Columbia University Press, 2009).
29
**Ruttig, 76; Gul, 37; Abubakar Siddique, “Pakistani Taliban Chief’s Death would have Broad
Implications,” RFE/RL (7 August 2009).**
30
**“Translation of Hakimullah Mehsud’s Handwritten Autobiographical Notes,” NEFA, 3 October 2009;
For background on Baitullah Mehsud see Imtiaz Ali, “Baitullah Mehsud—the Taliban’s New Leader in
Pakistan,” Terrorism Focus, 9 January 2008; For background on Abdullah Mehsud and his death, see
“Former Guantanamo Inmate Blows himself up in Pakistan,” Dawn, 24 July 2007. **
31
**Authors’ interview with Pir Zubair Shah, 13 September 2010; For background on Qari Amil, who was
recently killed, see “Rebel Commander Killed in Afghan East,” Pajhwok News, 2 November 2010; By using
the term “fronts” the authors are referring to a line or zone of battle.)

Will edit formatting if I get time.. but it'll be easier for you if you read the original source yourself.

There is no good taliban/bad taliban.. the taliban are one, whether you like them or not. Yes, they operate in different splinters but thats due to strategy and focus. No (afghan) taliban commander has publicly said NOT to attack Pakistani forces. (pls dont quote The News and Tribune sources). In fact, Mullah Omer always says "Attack America and Its Allies"

I can't seem to find the video Bunyan Um Marsoos (which actually convinced me as well that they are all one, fighting for the same goal)

I can't understand people who like "some" taliban but not the rest.. They are the same. If you like them, your standards should be homogenous.. Or if you hate them, same.. but Whats this like some hate some..?

The logic people give for hating TTP is that they kill Pakistanis (who are muslims, pray, believe in God etc), but the Afghani Talibs also kill Afghanis (who are muslims, pray, believe in God etc). And they BOTH attack americans as well.. And America targets them both.. :S

If I am wrong, convince me with proof and logic.

 

[53fd]

I quote from the link I posted,

According to New York
Times journalist Pir Zubair Shah, “when fighters under [Mullah] Nazir or [Hafiz] Gul
Bahadur [the TTP commander in North Waziristan] go in [to Afghanistan], they operate
under the Haqqani network and need them to allow access.”
26
* *Other sources confirm that Mullah Nazir is close to Sirajuddin Haqqani and that Gul Bahadur “coordinates
closely with the Haqqani network on both strategy and operations in Afghanistan.”
27
***
There is also a qualitative dimension to which TTP fighters have fought with the
Haqqani network in Afghanistan.
28
* *Baitullah Mehsud was a close ally of key Haqqani
commanders and fought with the Taliban (likely under Jalaluddin in the Shomali Plains
north of Kabul), and both Baitullah and his successor Hakimullah Mehsud helped the
Afghan Taliban to regroup after the U.S. invasion.
29
* * In short biographical notes
allegedly written by Hakimullah Mehsud, the TTP leader emphasized that he, Baitullah
Mehsud and Abdullah Mehsud (killed in 2007) fought together with Mullah Sangeen, a
key Haqqani commander, in Khost province.
30
**To facilitate the integration between the
Haqqani network and the TTP integration, senior Haqqani leaders are known to vouch
for Pakistanis who want to gain access to fronts in Khost and individuals like Qari Amil
(deceased) coordinate this type of integration in the field.
31


26~31 are different sources (copy pasting:
27
**Hakimullah Mehsud and Hafiz Gul Bahadur reportedly have close ties as well. See Imtiaz Gul, The
Most Dangerous Place: Pakistan’s Lawless Frontier, (New York: Viking, 2010).**
28
**For one perspective, see Claudio Franco, “The Tehrik‐e‐Taliban Pakistan,” in Decoding the New Taliban:
Insights from the Afghan Field, ed. Antonio Giustozzi (New York: Columbia University Press, 2009).
29
**Ruttig, 76; Gul, 37; Abubakar Siddique, “Pakistani Taliban Chief’s Death would have Broad
Implications,” RFE/RL (7 August 2009).**
30
**“Translation of Hakimullah Mehsud’s Handwritten Autobiographical Notes,” NEFA, 3 October 2009;
For background on Baitullah Mehsud see Imtiaz Ali, “Baitullah Mehsud—the Taliban’s New Leader in
Pakistan,” Terrorism Focus, 9 January 2008; For background on Abdullah Mehsud and his death, see
“Former Guantanamo Inmate Blows himself up in Pakistan,” Dawn, 24 July 2007. **
31
**Authors’ interview with Pir Zubair Shah, 13 September 2010; For background on Qari Amil, who was
recently killed, see “Rebel Commander Killed in Afghan East,” Pajhwok News, 2 November 2010; By using
the term “fronts” the authors are referring to a line or zone of battle.)

Will edit formatting if I get time.. but it'll be easier for you if you read the original source yourself.

There is no good taliban/bad taliban.. the taliban are one, whether you like them or not. Yes, they operate in different splinters but thats due to strategy and focus. No (afghan) taliban commander has publicly said NOT to attack Pakistani forces. (pls dont quote The News and Tribune sources). In fact, Mullah Omer always says "Attack America and Its Allies"

I can't seem to find the video Bunyan Um Marsoos (which actually convinced me as well that they are all one, fighting for the same goal)

I can't understand people who like "some" taliban but not the rest.. They are the same. If you like them, your standards should be homogenous.. Or if you hate them, same.. but Whats this like some hate some..?

The logic people give for hating TTP is that they kill Pakistanis (who are muslims, pray, believe in God etc), but the Afghani Talibs also kill Afghanis (who are muslims, pray, believe in God etc). And they BOTH attack americans as well.. And America targets them both.. :S

If I am wrong, convince me with proof and logic.

Hafiz Gul Bahadur, Mullah Nazir agreed to stop attacking the Pakistani state; & be part of the peace process, & split away from the TTP. The same happened with Molvi Faqir in Bajaur recently. The Haqqani network has been trying to broker peace within the tribes, different groups from the Khyber, Kurram Agencies; & convincing them to stop attacking the Pakistani state. While there are many TTP commanders that have changed their ways & stop attacking the Pakistani state, Western proxies being funded from Afghanistan, such as Mangal Bagh & Hakeemullah Masood have not stopped attacking the Pakistani state; & have even attacked the Haqqani group; & tried to end the peace deals in the region.

 

[haviZsultan]

I agree there is no good or bad taliban. They are all bad.

But it is in the interests of Pakistan to take down those militant groups that are attacking the Pakistani state first. This means targeting the TTP- tehreek e taliban pakistan first because for almost every suicide attack, every killing, every blast these guys are always involved. There is no escape from the fact that the other groups are less of an immediate threat.

For the 40,000 killed in the war on terror I am sure more than 8/10 of the civilians have been killed by them and in their bomb blasts and attacks. Therefore I have continuously said we have to go to Ladha again, the center of Hakimullah Mahsud and somehow take Mahsud out. There is no reason to stay our hand. If he is a western proxy then there is even more reason to attack him. How can we allow someone taking funds of the west to kill our own people? Then anyone can do this?

The Haqqani, Hafiz Gul Bahadur and Nazir groups are the groups US has targeted with the drones and that has done nothing for Pakistan other than causing civilian casualties. We have completely separate interests in this war and US is simply not targeting the leaders attacking the Pakistani state. All they care about are the commanders involved in cross border raids.

Furthermore any ideas about a peace deal holding with the taliban should have been broken with the jail break attempt in Bannu. We all know where all the attacks in Bannu, Hangu and Tank come from. W-a-z-i-r-i-s-t-a-n which is another word for pain in the ***.

 

[53fd]

There are no good or bad militants. They are all bad. But international geopolitics is a dirty game itself. The groups that are willing to surrender themselves & their arms, & make peace with the government must be differentiated from the ones that don't. Simple. Lasting peace is achieved through this, through peaceful negotiations in which militants surrender themselves & their arms, & then by revitalizing the militants the way junkies are revitalized in rehab; turning them against militant ideology.