Trolling and hate?

[Horatio]

As a long time spectator here, I gotta admit my compatriots troll a lot (In fact most of the members though I'll just limit this message to my country men), not all but a healthy portion of us and its thoroughly embarrassing sometimes to see the condescending behavior some of us exhibit. Granted, its an online forum and we can't expect every engagement to be civil though I'll request my countrymen to cut down on unnecessary commentary. Respect the flag. Just my two cents, no offense intended.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The same song

Everything becomes boring eventually. Maybe you need to ask yourself if you have been here, far too long? Everything has a "sell by date". Ever thought you might be past that point?

I certainly feel that about myself.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Everything becomes boring eventually. Maybe you need to ask yourself if you have been here, far too long? Everything has a "sell by date". Ever thought you might be past that point?

I certainly feel that about myself.

You have a point. I have been thinking that ever since the ridiculous thread a few weeks ago. I need to take that call.

 

[Hiptullha]

What ever I have said about India pales in comparison to what Indian's say about Pakistan in Indian forums and other mediums.

After trawling interwebs forums for several years, one thing I've noticed is that wherever there is an Indian, you're bound to see the words "Porki", "Al-Bakistani", "Madrassa" and "terrorist" even in the absence of Pakistani users.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

After trawling interwebs forums for several years, one thing I've noticed is that wherever there is an Indian, you're bound to see the words "Porki", "Al-Bakistani", "Madrassa" and "terrorist" even in the absence of Pakistani users.

Yes, although you can include few more like "failed, beggar,interbred and the almost accepted use of the pejorative Pak*". However I think far worse then these are the actuall use of synoyms that are contemptous or dismissive. Like if your trying fix a weekend footbal game and you just contemtously flip over the 20 stone mountain of lard because you know he can't even take two steps without panting.

It is a form of rejection without even having been judged a loser. You are a loser before you even get a chance to be a loser. That Pakistan is failed is treated like established fact and anybody even questioning that has mad cow disease. It would be darn to simple to blame it all on the Indian's.

Clearly Pakistani's have failed and done everything to create fertile ground. Ground that indian's have moved very fast to plough with their hostile narrative of Pakistan. The biggest problem Pakistan faces is not even terrorism. The biggest is poor branding.

I give you one example. I have been looking to buy quality leather jacket. Not one of those mass produced clap trap. In addition I have peculiar preferance for colour (tan) and design (aviator/reefer/biker) like something below.

Very quickly it became apparent that the best quality hand made crafted jackets - These are measured and then bespoke made are from Pakistan. However everything is done to hide this. The company has it's office in USA and the Pakistan connection only becomes apparent when you look at the return policy which says items shall be returned to their "South Asian" facility.

The reality is some of the best leather products are made in Pakistan. However here is the rub. they get sold on as Italian or French. Simply because brand Pakistan has terrible stock. I feel pity for all those craftsmen working away yet earning far less then they deserve. This even applies to basmati rice.

This terrible country image is corrosive. It prevents investment, it hinders exports, it creates problems i n all manner of ways. The Indian's are more then happy to shovel terrorism on Pakistan, they make concerted effort to distance themselves from Pakistan, However the same does not apply when it comes to our history or anything half positive.

 

[VCheng]

This terrible country image is corrosive.

Image without substance fools only a few, and even then not for long. Think quality leather garments and most people will rightly mention Italy before Pakistan. Now would you put Pakistani leather garments before Italian ones?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Image without substance fools only a few, and even then not for long. Think quality leather garments and most people will rightly mention Italy before Pakistan. Now would you put Pakistani leather garments before Italian ones?

With due respect it is late here and I am tired but your testing my patience. I know your not dumb. So stop please fencing me me. You bloody well know that things are never black or white. Never binary.

I would put them lower than Italian. I was not suggesting they are as good as Italian. What I am saying they are almost as good but probably 25% of the price. Italian stuff is overpriced. Pakistan stuff is underpriced because of poor brand value. If that was resolved then Pak leather industry would earn far more money which in time would lead to push quality up and in time match or out do the Italians unless you think superiority is imprinted in their genes.

Itay is oversold. Most women are ugly. Most Italians are far from Hollywood image. Italy is thorougly corrupt but in last 50 years they have transformed their branding.

substance

I know. In this statement your suggesting that the image and substance as regards Pakistan are in sync. They are emphatically NOT. Pakistan's image is far worse then whatever subtstance it has. India conversely has a image far better then the actuall substance.

 

[VCheng]

With due respect it is late here and I am tired but your testing my patience. I know your not dumb. So stop please fencing me me. You bloody well know that things are never black or white. Never binary.

I would put them lower than Italian. I was not suggesting they are as good as Italian. What I am saying they are almost as good but probably 25% of the price. Italian stuff is overpriced. Pakistan stuff is underpriced because of poor brand value. If that was resolved then Pak leather industry would earm far more money which over time would lead to up in quality and in time match or out do the Italians unless you think they have it imprinted in their genes.

Itay is oversold. Most women are ugly. Most Italians are far from Hollywood image. Italy is thorougly corrupt but in last 50 years they have transformed their branding.

Substance precedes image, not the other way around. That is all, Sir, with all due respect.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Substance

Okay. Let me ask you a question. If a average American was taken to Pakistan would his real experiance their match what his image is of that country? I tell you most Western people equate Pakistan with Somalia or Afghanistan.

On the other hand if a average American was taken to see India do you think it would match his image?

Substance and image don't have absolute correlation. If that were so why the hell do companies plough billions into PR and ads? After all would not the product ( substance ) sell itself and carve a image for itself?

And before you play smart with me note I said "absolute corellation" which is not the same as having NO correllation. Clearly there is some connect with image and substance however there is fair bit of flex there.

That's where PR companies and mass ads come in. To manufacture perception.

 

[N/A]

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire

 

[VCheng]

That's where PR companies and mass ads come in. To manufacture perception.

To take your questions further, Sir, what good have the PR firms hired by Pakistan at great cost in DC done, given the substance with which they have to work with to create the desired perceptions? And actually, good products do provide the substance that needs only a light polish to shine, whereas goldplating a turd always remains a losing exercise.

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire

.... and without hating anyone.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

PR firms hired

Useless. They have achieved nothing. These firms have to be part of a strategy. If they alone could do it Saudia would have the best image in the world. What Pakistan has to do to improve it's image.

Dumb down on the Islamic rhetoric
Dumb down on playing the self declared jihad against isreal
Dumb down on the anti Jewish rhetoric. You live in America. You know who has grip on the media there.
Dumb down on identity revolving around Islam only. Move and spin that with the history of the land that goes back 7,000 years.

If the government could get this message across to the people slowly things would being to change.

Any PR campaign has to be holistic and multifaceted.

 

[VCheng]

Useless. They have achieved nothing. These firms have to be part of a strategy. If they alone could do it Saudia would have the best image in the world. What Pakistan has to do to improve it's image.

Dumb down on the Islamic rhetoric
Dumb down on playing the self declared jihad against isreal
Dumb down on the anti Jewish rhetoric. You live in America. You know who has grip on the media there.
Dumb down on identity revolving around Islam only. Move and spin that with the history of the land that goes back 7,000 years.

If the government could get this message across to the people slowly things would being to change.

Any PR campaign has to be holistic and multifaceted.

Ah yes, you mean that all those dumbing down steps will create the substance needed to improve the image. I can agree with that.

 

[Solomon2]

The reality is some of the best leather products are made in Pakistan. However here is the rub. they get sold on as Italian or French. Simply because brand Pakistan has terrible stock.

Yes, and Pakistan isn't alone in this. Europe, you see, has very few regulations against re-labeling a product's point of origin. If you dig you'll find Korean-made binoculars that are branded as German, French-made chocolates that are branded as Belgian, Spanish-grown and pressed olive oil that's marketed as Italian, and more.

I imagine that in the U.S. the jackets would be sold with an Italian-sounding name but with "Made in Pakistan" on the label. But eventually - at least in the U.S. - countries do build a solid reputation for niche products and are then sold openly under that origin. Latest fashion trend at Costco are Chinese-style (not just Chinese-made) winter outerwear - gray and puffy rather than the smooth and bright or pastel colors of previous years.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistan isn't alone

Well for sure Pakistan has terrible image in USA. OBL and media coverage connected therewith just about did it. Millions of brainwashed Pakistani's spouting rubbish don't help either in particlar when foreign media have habit of hiring "rent a mob" in some sleezy part of Islamabad and filing a report.

Similar to going to US and doing report in some hell hole in Washington DC full of pimps and druggies. Then asking them what they think of Muslims. Include in the report a gun battle or two for good measure and a emaciated drugged out female sprawled on the pavement, oh sorry sidwalk. I saw a funny Iranian documentary on USA and it was a laugh.