Towards a new & Improved Fauj

[muse]

With militaries restructured and existentially free to apply across the entire threat spectrum, Indian- and Pakistani-centrism and their resulting threat status in each other’s country may just give way. With each no more a threat for the other, the politician may just gain his lost freedom to exercise his political liberty to forge a changed paradigm of cooperation in the interest of the two peoples.

This is what I was referring to

 

[Rafi]

There is zero chance of the Army reducing its Armor and Mechanized formations, the Army is and will increase the training of troops for FIBUA and COIN - this curriculum - will not replace but supplement the conventional training. india is a constant and present danger, that is a fact and will remain so.

 

[VCheng]

This is what I was referring to

Frankly, I just do not see the military allowing any real political process to take hold. They have been used to the gravy train of power, money and influence for so long now that, I dare say, they have become junkies. Withdrawal symptoms will be fatal unless, to carry on the analogy, they are admitted to a rehabilitation center, which will have to be imposed.

 

[Rafi]

Frankly, I just do not see the military allowing any real political process to take hold. They have been used to the gravy train of power, money and inlfuence for so long now that, I dare say, they have become junkies. Withdrawal symptoms will be fatal unless, to carry on the analogy, they are admitted to a rehabilitation center, which will have to be imposed.

Your negative mindset, is your right - but after a couple of democratic elections and parliaments - finishing their tenors - you will find the Militarily's influence receding. If you are a Pakistani, describing the young men and women fighting and dieing against the takfiri as junkies is sad and condemnable.

 

[VCheng]

Rafi: My ANALOGY (please look up the meaning to help your comprehension) refers to the military leadership, not the brave rank and file. I stand by my assessment as CORRECT.

 

[Rafi]

Rafi: My ANALOGY (please look up the meaning to help your comprehension) refers to the military leadership, not the brave rank and file. I stand by my assessment as CORRECT.

Well Mr Cheng the vast majority of the Armed Forces are the rank and file, and they are currently fighting and dieing in the WOT - I think your original expression betrayed your inner feeling of hatred for ALL the Armed Forces.

 

[VCheng]

LOL! Mr Rafi: you must be clairvoyant to know my inner feelings!

My original expression is clear, logical and correct. Please look to yourself for better understanding without your prejudcies to cloud your preceptions.

*************************************
Edit:


a·nal·o·gy
   [uh-nal-uh-jee]

–noun, plural -gies.
1.
a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

2.
similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine.

3.
Biology . an analogous relationship.

4.
Linguistics .
a.
the process by which words or phrases are created or re-formed according to existing patterns in the language, as when shoon was re-formed as shoes, when -ize is added to nouns like winter to form verbs, or when a child says foots for feet.

b.
a form resulting from such a process.

5.
Logic . a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.

 

[muse]

Will the army allow reforms and transitions to allow Pakistan to become a genuine democracy and the military under civilian control??

Well, your point about the gravy train is taken and I think you are correct that a lot of individuals and institutions have a vested interest in the arresting of the agents and process of change - they like it just fine the way things are -- and really that's the way it is with any established institution - however, the important point is that change to deal with specific problems is generally allowed to be understood by the kinds of ideas expressed by the the AVM's paper - it allows stake holders to put their positions and logic forward and others to evaluate --- that's really the important thing, that is to say, public debate and information and public stake in making these decisions is what, for me, is more important than if and when decisions I agree with actually get made.

 

[Rafi]

LOL! Mr Rafi: you must be clairvoyant to know my inner feelings!

My original expression is clear, logical and correct. Please look to yourself for better understanding without your prejudcies to cloud your preceptions.

*************************************
Edit:


a·nal·o·gy
   [uh-nal-uh-jee]

–noun, plural -gies.
1.
a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

2.
similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine.

3.
Biology . an analogous relationship.

4.
Linguistics .
a.
the process by which words or phrases are created or re-formed according to existing patterns in the language, as when shoon was re-formed as shoes, when -ize is added to nouns like winter to form verbs, or when a child says foots for feet.

b.
a form resulting from such a process.

5.
Logic . a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.

It is the constant contempt - that you hold for all things Pakistani and in particular the Armed Forces - which the Generals are a tiny minority of of, that makes your original view of OUR soldiers as junkies - as more plausible.

 

[muse]

Readers Will note that som eof the ideas in the AVM's piece are already being incorporated -- and I think you will see more movement on these ideas - the positions expressed by Rafi Xeric and AM, as they relate to India, are interesting

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/105203-pakistan-army-employs-lessons-taliban-conflict.html

 

[Rafi]

Will the army allow reforms and transitions to allow Pakistan to become a genuine democracy and the military under civilian control??

Well, your point about the gravy train is taken and I think you are correct that a lot of individuals and institutions have a vested interest in the arresting of the agents and process of change - they like it just fine the way things are -- and really that's the way it is with any established institution - however, the important point is that change to deal with specific problems is generally allowed to be understood by the kinds of ideas expressed by the the AVM's paper - it allows stake holders to put their positions and logic forward and others to evaluate --- that's really the important thing, that is to say, public debate and information and public stake in making these decisions is what, for me, is more important than if and when decisions I agree with actually get made.

Our politicians will have to follow the Turkish model, the AKP - by answering the public demand for development and clean government, through it's performance has been able to take increasingly the political role away from their Armed Forces. This can be replicated in Pakistan, but do note that the AKP is not reducing the fighting capability of their forces, but are increasing them exponentially.

 

[VCheng]

Will the army allow reforms and transitions to allow Pakistan to become a genuine democracy and the military under civilian control??

The chances of that happening are less than the proverbial snowflake in Hell.

Think of it this way: WHY should the Brass allow this change to take hold? That will happen only if they either see, or are forced to see, the writing on the wall. The impetus for this change will come from the impending economic and social collapse, but then geopolitical realities will endanger the very existence of the State as it exists today. This brings us back full circle. The perception of this existential threat will force to Brass to hold on to the status quo.

 

[VCheng]

It is the constant contempt - that you hold for all things Pakistani and in particular the Armed Forces - which the Generals are a tiny minority of of, that makes your original view of OUR soldiers as junkies - as more plausible.

Please try to respond to the CONTENT of my posts without casting aspersions on my PERSON. If you cannot do that then I have no choice but to ignore your posts. Thank you.

 

[muse]

That will happen only if they either see, or are forced to see, the writing on the wall.

Yes, you are right -- but also wrong, at least tangentially -- See, the important thing is not "decisions" - it's how the decision point is being negotiated -- Allow me to elaborate -- The kinds of ideas about the kinds of change required, are not being discussed in secrecy, among a small group, rather, these ideas are being expressed in public, eliciting public responses - the entire discussion is public and it's not that the AVM's ideas are from Sinai - it's public debate, ideas being refined in public --- And this, above all demonstrates that as an institution the Fauj is certainly far more complex, far more smart and far more open, than some give it credit for -- Don't get me wrong, I agree that it has corporate interests and will and does strive to protect these, but that does not mean that it has no other interests or that those go unrepresented and unexpressed, obviously not, right?

The impetus for this change will come from the impending economic and social collapse, but then geopolitical realities will endanger the very existence of the State as it exists today.

I also agree with this - usually, absolutely no other option, tends to focus the thinking of individuals and institutions.

 

[Rafi]

Please try to respond to the CONTENT of my posts without casting aspersions on my PERSON. If you cannot do that then I have no choice but to ignore your posts. Thank you.

My friend - why are you so defensive, I may be wrong - but most of the posts I have seen of yours have been contemptuous of all things Pakistani. If I have misjudged or mis interpreted your point of view, I apologize in advance.