What's new

Top US commander: Burning Quran endangers troops

The hypocrite here is you, buddy. Regarding the Ground Zero mosque, you call out legalism, but now when it comes to your sensitivity, legalism gets thrown out the window. Just as the muslims have the legal right to build that triumphalist mosque at Ground Zero, this Christian pastor have the same legal right to burn the Quran. Both rights are in the US, just in case you have not noticed. No...I have not criticized any muslims. I only point out that both rights are equal to each other. Or are you demanding that muslim's rights should trump non-muslims' rights?

No i never said that at all or anyway of what you accused me of. Where did i say the man couldn't burn books. Did you even read my post(in this thread). I told people to let him do it. If he wants to take a risk he has the right to. I suggest you also dig up the draw Mohammad day face book thing which i also said was ok and freedom of speech. Your playing both sides though. You say it is disrespectful for that islamic center to go up but they have the right to. Then you come here and say look this man has the right to burn anything he wants and your hypocritical Muslims. While your doing the same exact thing. Your criticizing the mosque but your saying ok to the book burning. You agenda is pretty clear to me. You see i dont have a hate for a certain group of people. Which is why i was ok with the mosque going up. I am also ok with this man burning books and the face book group. I am a tolerant person.
 
. .
Pressure rises on pastor who wants to burn Quran


Pressure rises on pastor who wants to burn Quran - Yahoo! News

By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer – 6 mins ago

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – The government turned up the pressure Tuesday on the head of a small Florida church who plans to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11, warning him that doing so could endanger U.S. troops and Americans everywhere.

But the Rev. Terry Jones insisted he would go ahead with his plans, despite criticism from the top U.S. general in Afghanistan, the White House and the State Department, as well as a host of religious leaders.

Jones, who is known for posting signs proclaiming that Islam is the devil's religion, says the Constitution gives him the right to publicly set fire to the book that Muslims consider the word of God.

Gen. David Petraeus warned Tuesday in an e-mail to The Associated Press that "images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan — and around the world — to inflame public opinion and incite violence." It was a rare example of a military commander taking a position on a domestic political matter.

Jones responded that he is also concerned but is "wondering, 'When do we stop?'" He refused to cancel the protest set for Saturday at his Dove World Outreach Center, a church that espouses an anti-Islam philosophy.

"How much do we back down? How many times do we back down?" Jones told the AP. "Instead of us backing down, maybe it's to time to stand up. Maybe it's time to send a message to radical Islam that we will not tolerate their behavior."

Still, Jones said he will pray about his decision.

State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said the administration hoped Americans would stand up and condemn the church's plan.

"We think that these are provocative acts," Crowley said. "We would like to see more Americans stand up and say that this is inconsistent with our American values; in fact, these actions themselves are un-American."

Meeting Tuesday with religious leaders to discuss recent attacks on Muslims and mosques around the U.S., Attorney General Eric Holder called the planned burning both idiotic and dangerous, according to a Justice Department official. The official requested anonymity because the meeting was private.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton added her disapproval at a dinner Tuesday evening in observance of Iftar, the breaking of the daily fast during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

"I am heartened by the clear, unequivocal condemnation of this disrespectful, disgraceful act that has come from American religious leaders of all faiths," Clinton said.

At the White House, spokesman Robert Gibbs echoed the concerns raised by Petraeus. "Any type of activity like that that puts our troops in harm's way would be a concern to this administration," Gibbs told reporters.

Jones said he has received more than 100 death threats and has started wearing a .40-caliber pistol strapped to his hip.

The 58-year-old minister said the death threats started not long after he proclaimed in July that he would stage "International Burn-a-Quran Day." Supporters have been mailing copies of the Islamic holy text to his church to be incinerated in a bonfire.

Jones, who has about 50 followers, gained some local notoriety last year when he posted signs in front of his small church declaring "Islam is of the Devil." But his Quran-burning scheme attracted wider attention. It drew rebukes from Muslim nations and an avalanche of media interview requests just as an emotional debate was taking shape over the proposed Islamic center near the ground zero site of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York.

The Quran, according to Jones, is "evil" because it espouses something other than biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.

"It's hard for people to believe, but we actually feel this is a message that we have been called to bring forth," he said last week. "And because of that, we do not feel like we can back down."

Muslims consider the Quran to be the word of God and insist it be treated with the utmost respect, along with any printed material containing its verses or the name of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad. Any intentional damage or show of disrespect to the Quran is deeply offensive.

Jones' Dove Outreach Center is independent of any denomination. The church follows the Pentecostal tradition, which teaches that the Holy Spirit can manifest itself in the modern day. Pentecostals often view themselves as engaged in spiritual warfare against satanic forces.

At first glance, the church looks like a warehouse rather than a place of worship. A stone facade and a large lighted cross adorn the front of the beige steel building, which stands on 20 acres in Gainesville's leafy northern suburbs. Jones and his wife, Sylvia, live on the property and also use part of it to store furniture that they sell on eBay.

A broad coalition of religious leaders from evangelical, Roman Catholic, Jewish and Muslim organizations met in Washington on Tuesday and condemned the plan to burn the Quran as a violation of American values.

"This is not the America that we all have grown to love and care about," said Rabbi Steve Gutow of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs. "We have to stand up for our Muslim brothers and sisters and say, "This is not OK.'"

FBI agents have visited with Jones to discuss concern for his safety. Multiple Facebook pages with thousands of members have popped up hailing him as a hero or blasting him as a dangerous pariah.

The world's leading Sunni Muslim institution of learning, Al-Azhar University in Egypt, accused the church of stirring up hate and discrimination, and called on other American churches speak out against it.

Last month, Indonesian Muslims demonstrated outside the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta, threatening violence if Jones goes through with it.

In this progressive Florida city of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus, the lanky preacher with the bushy white mustache is mostly seen as a fringe character who doesn't deserve special attention.

At least two dozen Christian churches, Jewish temples and Muslim organizations in Gainesville have mobilized to plan inclusive events — some will read from the Quran at their own weekend services — to counter what Jones is doing. A student group is organizing a protest across the street from the church on Sept. 11.

Gainesville's new mayor, Craig Lowe, who during his campaign became the target of a Jones-led protest because he is openly gay, has declared Sept. 11 Interfaith Solidarity Day in the city.

Jones dismisses the response of the other churches as "cowardly." He said even if they think burning Qurans is extreme, Christian ministers should be standing with him in denouncing the principles of Islam.

All the attention has caused other problems for Jones, too. He believes it's the reason his mortgage lender has demanded full payment of the $140,000 still owed on the church property. He's seeking donations to cover it, but recently listed the property for sale with plans to eventually move the church away from Gainesville.

The fire department has denied Jones a required burn permit for Sept. 11, but he said lawyers have told him his right to burn Qurans is protected by the First Amendment, with or without the city's permission.

The same would hold true, he said, if Muslims wanted to burn Bibles in the front yard of a mosque.

"Of course, I would not like it," Jones said. But "I definitely would not threaten to kill them, as we have been threatened."
 
.
How do you know it is one crazy weirdo ? He just maybe the tip of the iceberg ? For one weirdo, there are probably 1000 dormant ones. What I just wrote is the standard arguments used by the right wing in US.

BTW stay on the topic. No need to go wild goose chasing.

If they burn The Quran, I don't have a problem with it. An act of burning does not cause a "disturbance in my force!"

Off-course media will show it over and over, which will cause disturbance in the Force in different parts of the world. Then media will show that disturbance over and over, you get the point ?

Because they were protesting an act by a Pastor with congregration of 50 people, I know he is a weirdo.

I am not wild goose chasing, unlike you. I do not give a HOOT in THE HELL about your FORCE.

I m just pointing out the fact people MAKE IT a big deal if it happens in America, but in their own backyard they literally do nothing.. and more over I have not seen any muslims stand up against Flag burning or any other things ..

"Hum Kare to Pyaar Aap Kare to Balatkaar" Logic.. typical!!!
 
. .
No i never said that at all or anyway of what you accused me of.
And I never said you did.

If he wants to take a risk he has the right to.
Risk of what? Violence? From whom? Interesting...Risk...Hmmm...

Your playing both sides though. You say it is disrespectful for that islamic center to go up but they have the right to. Then you come here and say look this man has the right to burn anything he wants and your hypocritical Muslims. While your doing the same exact thing. Your criticizing the mosque but your saying ok to the book burning. You agenda is pretty clear to me. You see i dont have a hate for a certain group of people. Which is why i was ok with the mosque going up. I am also ok with this man burning books and the face book group. I am a tolerant person.
You have a reading comprehension problem. The hypocrisy here is whose sensitivity takes precedent. Apparently for the muslims, theirs should trump others. Am saying that right should match right, sensitivity should match sensitivity. If you demand that this Christian respect muslims' sensitivity DESPITE his right to legally burn the Quran, then you should also demand that this proposed mosque be built elsewhere DESPITE the right to build it there is available.

I saw this coming a hundred klicks away...:lol:
 
.
:lol:Has any body notice that Indians speak for US as its been out source to them too :lol:

Clever, I have to agree with you..unlike the thankless who take 200million showing "heart-breaking" pictures of kids in floods... and then just go on bashing USA.

when your Army/AirForce/Navy were incompetent it is the Americans who flew the desperate souls in desolate locations to safety.. remember that..
 
Last edited:
.
Islam prevent Muslims from burning those holy books.
But I guess not calling for 'Death to <whatever>' and burn other symbols that is equally sacred to others.
 
.
And I never said you did.

You called me a hypocrite do you know the meaning of that word. Obviously it doesn't apply to me since i am not against any of those.


Risk of what? Violence? From whom? Interesting...Risk...Hmmm...

Don't play stupid with me. If someone has a agenda of hate to anger people obviously there is a risk involved. If i take a KKK suit and go to a African American neighborhood there is a risk involved.


You have a reading comprehension problem. The hypocrisy here is whose sensitivity takes precedent. Apparently for the muslims, theirs should trump others. Am saying that right should match right, sensitivity should match sensitivity. If you demand that this Christian respect muslims' sensitivity DESPITE his right to legally burn the Quran, then you should also demand that this proposed mosque be built elsewhere DESPITE the right to build it there is available.

I saw this coming a hundred klicks away...:lol:

I got no problem at all.


Now let me see if i can give you a clue as to why this does not compare with that.

You see this man is doing what the westboro baptist church is doing. He is spreading hate and disrespect that is specifically his agenda.(You know what that church does right ? They protest and laugh at dead American soldiers coming from Iraq and Afghanistan and protest their funerals in front of their families ) A community center is a building for a religion. Nothing more. It isn't being built as a hate center or anything else. It is a building. Where people go and practice a religion. They don't have a anti-anything agenda besides tolerance as the place is totally open to the public i suggest you go visit it. This person on the other hand has a hate and anti Islam agenda because he views it as something against Christianity.


This is the single dumbest thing i have been trying to discuss on these forums. You know what happened on 9/11 ? Islam didn't declare war on the U.S. A group of crazies called Al-Qaeda who have extremist views declared war on the U.S.



Why on earth is a building tied to a terrorist group ? That has zero affiliations with them. Which brings me back to my main point. Is that Baptist church now tied to every single baptist church in the United States because they are a bunch of crazies ?



P.S.

I know what your pushing here. Go ahead and keep it up though.
 
.
I traveled in the southern parts of the US extensively. Religion is part of southern life and does play a big role. Commonly known as the Bible belt of America.
Afraid of the potential that the US could become as religiously motivated as the MEastern countries?

"Death to America" tv clips are staple of right wing America media diet bud. Its been played out zillions of times.
We have no choice. Americans do not gather in Times Squares after Sept 11, 2001, and since then, and chant 'Death to <whatever>' and burn that country's flag.

Here you go...


See the grip of media on you, amazing isn't it ? See how you write "You guys" ?
And yours do not have such a grip on you? You do not know America and Americans as well as you deluded yourself to believe...

"Americans are benevolently ignorant about Canada, while Canadians are malevolently well informed about the United States. -- J. Bartlett Brebne"

The above is applicable to others than Canadians.

However...The US military has worldwide knowledge and experience, from the average soldier, sailor or airman, to the top leadership. The US has the Peace Corps. The American Mormon Church sent its missionaries no less worldwide than the US military. No one has complete knowledge of the world but all contributed whatever they know and of their opinions on wherever they have been to the unwritten institutional memory of America regarding the world outside our borders. It is not so much that we are 'ignorant' but that we do not care to collate and formally analyze what we know while others made far more efforts to malevolently formulate their opinions of US despite the fact that we contributed much to the world. The Internet that you take for granted is one example. However, the time came -- Sept 11, 2001 -- and Americans began that formal analysis of the hostile attitudes towards US outside our borders.

We are taking 'Death to America' as a serious threat as well as comedic relief.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
The Quran was not revealed to keep it safe in your houses........it was revealed for the guidance of the whole mankind.......... I can remember a story of Spain when Muslims were running away/fleeing from spain and they (christians) burnt the Holy Qur'an whichever found and was forbidden to have a copy of it or read.......

They found a Mullah who requested them to come along so that he can show them more copies of the Quran and he guided them to his "Madrissah" or something like that where there are a lot of "Hafiz-e-Quran" who knew Quran by heart.....and he told them that they can burn the papers of Holy Quran.......but how are the going to erase the Quran that has been written in the hearts of the childrens?

Quran was basically came for guidance and by burning its copies (piece of papers)....it is not going to de-grade its loftiness, exaltedness or glorification in any sense.

Let the dogs keep barking, your job is to move on
 
.
Don't play stupid with me. If someone has a agenda of hate to anger people obviously there is a risk involved. If i take a KKK suit and go to a African American neighborhood there is a risk involved.
Very good. So if any American, nutjob or serious scholar, has critical opinions of Islam and muslims, he is taking a 'risk'. Thanks for that thinly veiled clarification.
 
.
It is not so much that we are 'ignorant' but that we do not care to collate and formally analyze what we know while others made far more efforts to malevolently formulate their opinions of US despite the fact that we contributed much to the world. The Internet that you take for granted is one example.
Who's 'we'? What have you contributed towards the 'Internet', Peace Corp, or Missionary? This is the problem with people. They judge for too collectively, and not enough individually.

But I guess not calling for 'Death to <whatever>' and burn other symbols that is equally sacred to others.
And how is Christianity any better? Do you remember the Witch Trials, and the Inquisition? The reason that some of the worst crimes committed today are in Muslim majority countries has nothing to do with religion. One factor is the colonization by the West.
 
.
Very good. So if any American, nutjob or serious scholar, has critical opinions of Islam and muslims, he is taking a 'risk'. Thanks for that thinly veiled clarification.
Just like anyone who has a problem with Christianity are taking a risk.

Gambit, you really make hard to be pro-American, you know that? Most people take what you perceive as anti-American stances because you appear to be so condescending towards others. If you do not believe you are condescending, then you are both rude and ignorant.
 
.
Very good. So if any American, nutjob or serious scholar, has critical opinions of Islam and muslims, he is taking a 'risk'. Thanks for that thinly veiled clarification.

Negative. You misunderstood. I am saying if someone is preaching hate against something a lot of people feel is important to them there is a inherent risk involved that some of those people are intolerant enough to hurt this person. (Is that not common sense) If someones mother dies and i go make fun of it that person might just punch me.) Theo Van Gogh took a risk. He had 100&#37; the right to do what he did. He obviously knew the risk he was taking and was fine with it. Alternatively if you look at the south park show the developers took a risk that ended with the broadcasting company becoming afraid and pulling specific episodes.


Thanks for ignoring the rest of my post since you have no answer for it. I am off to watch AC 360 now. This risk taker is on again.
 
Last edited:
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom