Top US commander: Burning Quran endangers troops

[Jigs]

No one is complaining. And thanks much again for acknowledging there is a risk in exercising our legal rights in our own country.

You just now started to figure that out. Wow. Did you just move here ?

This isn't some conspiracy.

Tell me do you support the burning of the Quran. I am not talking about the right to burn it. But are you in favor of the act ?

 

[Coltsfan]

The argument used by the pastor is that Islam is the devil's incarnate. There are wonderful things mentioned in the Quran related to being thankful to Allah for various things that has been given to us. In fact there are messages of tolerance of each other's religion that will blow your mind away, since they are so modern. For all intents and purposes, fantastic, awe inspiring things ARE there in the Quran.

I fail to see how one can call it the Devil's incarnate after reading some of these awesome words. I have to conclude, they've not read the Quran as its meant to be read except for reading a few quotes out of context.

I agree with you, but my take is....... that Pastor Jones is not here to reply to your posts or make his case. So, there is no way you can convince him or people like him.

But on the flip side, once you start discussing what's in Quran, you open the possibility of people questioning content of Quran and that could turn very ugly very soon.

Just being cautious here........... rest is upto mods to decide....

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Unbeliever]

How about, this time, instead of killing people and violent rioting you will all have a 'March of Remembrance' for the (Muslim and Non-Muslim) Victims of September 11th on that day and then draw caricatures of this pastor or whatever else you like. That is what followers of an actual 'Religion of Peace' might do...

If there is more than a thousand people publicly doing that in Pakistan, I will henceforth refer to Islam as a religion of peace and you actually have proven to the world that you are a peaceful people. If however there will be deaths, again, than Islam in fact turned out to inspire violence..not peace.

What the pastor does is pretty stupid (although his right), granted, but hold your anger for a moment of thought, and than decide how do you think a good person acts.

 

[Awesome]

No one is complaining. And thanks much again for acknowledging there is a risk in exercising our legal rights in our own country.

Actually what your general is saying that you run a risk OUT of your country. Your soldiers are dependent on us to keep you guys alive. If we perceive you guys as generally assholes, then we'll be inclined to refuse help to you and you will die.

It would be unfortunate as most of you aren't assholes.

But the Muslim mind would indeed wonder, how many of you are playing ball and pretending to be nice to us just because you need our help. Your pastor indeed is opening up a can of worms. Einsteins theory applies here, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. To say consequences on your soldiers are unfair, is an unrealistic expectation.

 

[Awesome]

I agree with you, but my take is....... that Pastor Jones is not here to reply to your posts or make his case. So, there is no way you can convince him or people like him.

But on the flip side, once you start discussing what's in Quran, you open the possibility of people questioning content of Quran and that could turn very ugly very soon.

Just being cautious here........... rest is upto mods to decide....

Just my 2 cents.

Of course, thats why I've not really quoted anything, just given my one lined summary.

 

[Awesome]

How about, this time, instead of killing people and violent rioting you will all have a 'March of Remembrance' for the (Muslim and Non-Muslim) Victims of September 11th on that day and then draw caricatures of this pastor or whatever else you like. That is what followers of an actual 'Religion of Peace' might do...

If there is more than a thousand people publicly doing that in Pakistan, I will henceforth refer to Islam as a religion of peace and you actually have proven to the world that you are a peaceful people. If however there will be deaths, again, than (although I think it is a stupid move) Islam in fact turned out to inspire only violence..

What the pastor does is pretty stupid, granted, but hold your anger for a moment of thought, and than decide how do you think a good person acts.

Violent protests were always condemned. Unfortunately the violence only occurs in poorer Islamic countries, where people are ever ready to riot. There are a lot of riot paid groups who can stir up a frenzy.

However you will see condemnation from Muslims all over, from the radical to the mystic.

 

[fallstuff]

Afraid of the potential that the US could become as religiously motivated as the MEastern countries?

Afraid ? Not really. The litmus test was 9/11. I have seen how American people react without a constant barrage of anti-Muslim clips in the media. On that day of 9/11, if I had been in a particular country in South Asia, I would be very concerned, matter of fact I would be busy finding the nearest safe place, but here in USA I was not.

BTW the southern people in America are the most nicest people you can meet in the USA. Gambit, don't mislead people about the Southern folks.

We have no choice. Americans do not gather in Times Squares after Sept 11, 2001, and since then, and chant 'Death to <whatever>' and burn that country's flag.

Propaganda aside, no other country does that either. Yes you can show clips showing this country did this or that country did that, but thats not the whole picture truth behold.

Here you go...

YouTube - MadTV Parody on Al Jazeera


And yours do not have such a grip on you? You do not know America and Americans as well as you deluded yourself to believe...

"Americans are benevolently ignorant about Canada, while Canadians are malevolently well informed about the United States. -- J. Bartlett Brebne"

The above is applicable to others than Canadians.

However...The US military has worldwide knowledge and experience, from the average soldier, sailor or airman, to the top leadership. The US has the Peace Corps. The American Mormon Church sent its missionaries no less worldwide than the US military. No one has complete knowledge of the world but all contributed whatever they know and of their opinions on wherever they have been to the unwritten institutional memory of America regarding the world outside our borders. It is not so much that we are 'ignorant' but that we do not care to collate and formally analyze what we know while others made far more efforts to malevolently formulate their opinions of US despite the fact that we contributed much to the world. The Internet that you take for granted is one example. However, the time came -- Sept 11, 2001 -- and Americans began that formal analysis of the hostile attitudes towards US outside our borders.

We are taking 'Death to America' as a serious threat as well as comedic relief.

Not sure about you, but I have spent most of my adult life in this country. I do not live in a cocoon in USA. I meet people, I make friends with them, I try to understand people. I do not let someone like you who lives in a state of paranoia define me. Never gonna happen.

 

[Unbeliever]

@AsimAquil:
Are you telling me it does not matter that their believe-set makes them think something horribly awful has just happened to them, when in fact something halfway around the world that does not really affect them at all, except for perceived emotional grievances, has happened(or in this case is about to happen)? How about getting that rilled up over the mass child abuse and indoctrination into a death cult by the Taliban?

I find it hard to believe that these people burning down the embassies are mostly payed. I'm not saying the desperation of poverty does not make it easier, but it is clearly thought by at least a significant minority of Muslims that Islam mandates them to behave in such a way, because "the faith has been insulted"(one of the most useless and dangerous phrases ever..).

How about these people in GB expressing the same sentiment?

Payed? I don't think so.. This is the behavior of violent barbarians. And it is sadly not an isolated nor even the most extreme case (in Europe!) of many like it..
Many Christians used to behave similarly until more than 500 years ago, but 99,999&#37; do not anymore.

I mean, this guy (the pastor) is an idiot and 75% of Americans and probably 95% or more of Europeans know that as well as you and me.
Is that a reason to be violent? No.
Would these supposedly rioters-paying people be able to summon the same crazy mob over burning of the Tora or David Hasselhoffs cookbook? No.

What people believe does matter. And some (hopefully 1% or less of the total) people (even on this Forum) believe that being a Muslim means you should hurt/kill people who insult Islam. That is a thought (Religious insult merits physical harm) simply inconceivable to a truly civilized person and fundamentally ad odds with modern civilization in general. Obviously not only Muslims have these people amongst them, yet they seem to find it most easy to find justification in the holy texts?
While in theory equally possible with the Christian texts, reform, secular pressure and new convention have reduced that to an almost extinct rarity, while Imams using this interpretation can be readily found.

If yours is ever to become a 'Religion of Peace', I would wish for you and other sensible Muslims to react with the same energy in your counter-measures and force this violent minority to reform by a mass rise of reason.
I know there are some tiny, very quiet, very slow but non-nonetheless existing voices for reform rising in the smaller Arab-countries like UAE and Kuwait, is Dubai one of them?

 

[gambit]

You just now started to figure that out. Wow. Did you just move here ?

This isn't some conspiracy.

Tell me do you support the burning of the Quran. I am not talking about the right to burn it. But are you in favor of the act ?

Just like how the muslims demand the focus be upon the right to build that proposed triumphalist structure in NYC, you will now get a taste of your own medicine. I support the right of this Christian nutjob to burn any book he want, the Quran included.

 

[gambit]

Afraid ? Not really. The litmus test was 9/11. I have seen how American people react without a constant barrage of anti-Muslim clips in the media. On that day of 9/11, if I had been in a particular country in South Asia, I would be very concerned, matter of fact I would be busy finding the nearest safe place, but here in USA I was not.

Of course. According to the FBI, hate crimes against Jews outnumber hate crimes against muslims 10-1, even to now since Sept 11, 2001. Pretty much put to rest the false victimhood status muslims in America put upon themselves.

 

[Awesome]

@AsimAquil:
Are you telling me it does not matter that their believe-set makes them think something horribly awful has just happened to them, when in fact something halfway around the world that does not really affect them at all, except for perceived emotional grievances, has happened(or in this case is about to happen)? How about getting that rilled up over the mass child abuse and indoctrination into a death cult by the Taliban?

I find it hard to believe that these people burning down the embassies are mostly payed. I'm not saying the desperation of poverty does not make it easier, but it is clearly thought by at least a significant minority of Muslims that Islam mandates them to behave in such a way, because "the faith has been insulted"(one of the most useless and dangerous phrases ever..).

How about these people in GB expressing the same sentiment?
YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

Payed? I don't think so.. This is the behavior of violent barbarians. And it is sadly not an isolated nor even the most extreme case (in Europe!) of many like it..
Many Christians used to behave similarly until more than 500 years ago, but 99,999&#37; do not anymore.

I mean, this guy (the pastor) is an idiot and 75% of Americans and probably 95% or more of Europeans know that as well as you and me.
Is that a reason to be violent? No.
Would these supposedly rioters-paying people be able to summon the same crazy mob over burning of the Tora or David Hasselhoffs cookbook? No.

What people believe does matter. And some (hopefully 1% or less of the total) people (even on this Forum) believe that being a Muslim means you should hurt/kill people who insult Islam. That is a thought (Religious insult merits physical harm) simply inconceivable to a truly civilized person and fundamentally ad odds with modern civilization in general. Obviously not only Muslims have these people amongst them, yet they seem to find it most easy to find justification in the holy texts?
While in theory equally possible with the Christian texts, reform, secular pressure and new convention have reduced that to an almost extinct rarity, while Imams using this interpretation can be readily found.

If yours is ever to become a 'Religion of Peace', I would wish for you and other sensible Muslims to react with the same energy in your counter-measures and force this violent minority to reform by a mass rise of reason.
I know there are some tiny, very quiet, very slow but non-nonetheless existing voices for reform rising in the smaller Arab-countries like UAE and Kuwait, is Dubai one of them?

Have you seen similar violence in the UAE? There are still protests, people write in newspaper letters to the editor but never ever has there been a violent protest.

Reason? People have jobs, people are educated, people know how to get a message across. I would say people are more regular with their prayers in the UAE than Pakistan, people observe fasts more strictly during Ramadan... So its not ISLAM that makes us go out riot.

After 9/11, in the US, a lot of Muslims were shot at. Beaten by roadside gangs. In India there are riots in the name of Hinduism.

Are you going to say Americanism promotes violence? Hinduism Promotes violence?

Even in Pakistan the well to do people don't engage in violence and when I say paid, it does not mean everyone is paid. For example in Karachi's case, street thugs are deputed to go around Karachi rounding up people to stand in a mob while the paid goons are going to wreak havoc. This is common, and does not only apply to anti-US protests, it happens for all sorts of protests. Afghani refugees are notoriously known to do anything for 100rps in Karachi.

 

[Awesome]

Just like how the muslims demand the focus be upon the right to build that proposed triumphalist structure in NYC, you will now get a taste of your own medicine. I support the right of this Christian nutjob to burn any book he want, the Quran included.

The right is there, no one has argued against it. But you don't have a right to our trust and friendship that you have to earn.

We have a right to call the Quran burners assholes and be done with it as well.

 

[Spring Onion]

Just like how the muslims demand the focus be upon the right to build that proposed triumphalist structure in NYC, you will now get a taste of your own medicine. I support the right of this Christian nutjob to burn any book he want, the Quran included.

Sure if the American nutjobs are able to pass the law to do so from your American Govt just like the one has been passed for a structure in NYC,

 

[duhastmish]

this is just crazy but - i think this wacko can burn any book he wants. nobody can stop him. be it quran or any other. burn a 1000 copies of quraan ,

if it will send him some relief - by burning a book then let it be. let the poor soul feel good about it.

this is not a govt run propaganda - its some one guy who want to comfort himself by burning a book let it be. people must be pissed by the democrat's govt. which can stoop to a level of creating a mosque just to piss off christian crowd.

 

[Coltsfan]

The right is there, no one has argued against it. But you don't have a right to our trust and friendship that you have to earn.

We have a right to call the Quran burners assholes and be done with it as well.

I think that is free speech too!!!

BTW, your beef is with Quran burners only or religious book burners or book burners in general?