Top Saudi Arabian scholar says Muslims may pray in churches and synagogues

[Hamza913]

Synagogue yes but I probably would not pray in a Church where they have statue of Jesus as ‘god’

If church space does not have any shirk idol or symbols then no problem in praying there facing Makkah

That's what the scholarly consensus is.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I cannot Pray in a church this is wrong and I am openly saying it. Convert that church to Mosque and I will Pray in it. In the same way We Muslims cannot let go bait-ul-Muqadas it will be turned back into a mosque. Stop preachiing Israeli initiative to us. lol

And why is there a need to pray in a church Islam has allowed us to assemble a a jammat at any clean place if there is no mosque arround.

This Image is from Israel when they shut down al-Aqsa Mosque.

@KediKesenFare

This guy is a hardcore follower of the Iranian Wilayat al-Faqih Mullah's. What sect or ideology do you ascribe such views to?

He is part of the segment on PDF that considers the House of Saudi to be "Zionist agents" and un-Islamic rulers.

The reality is that millions (if not 100's of millions of Muslims across the world) are ignorant about Islam. Which is why Christians and non-Muslims are harassed and attacked in many Muslim countries. Non-Muslims in KSA (we are talking about millions of people from across the world, all social classes and age groups) are not harassed (let alone killed or attacked) because they are Christians (on a individual basis) but the state laws in place might discriminate against them. There is a difference here.

Similar to how minorities in Turkey can claim that they are discriminated against because say, Arabic is not a recognized minority language, or other minority languages.

So yes, the problem is much wider than this and not related to any particular sect. Anybody who claims differently is lying, trying to create his own biased narrative or ignorant, I am afraid. I won't mention countries here, incidents in country x or y, not to start some troll war , but there is plenty of arsenal out there that has nothing to do with KSA.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Let alone in a country with 10% of convinced atheists (more than in most if not all Muslim countries with the exception of maybe Albania and Bosnia).

Interesting. This should blow the bottom out of many Pakistanis. Have you source for this please?

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I cannot Pray in a church this is wrong and I am openly saying it. Convert that church to Mosque and I will Pray in it. In the same way We Muslims cannot let go bait-ul-Muqadas it will be turned back into a mosque. Stop preachiing Israeli initiative to us. lol

And why is there a need to pray in a church Islam has allowed us to assemble a a jammat at any clean place if there is no mosque arround.

This Image is from Israel when they shut down al-Aqsa Mosque.

So because of politics (Israel and the Palestinian conflict) you are supposedly willing to alter the teachings of your religion? Is that how low you value Islam that it becomes a Swedish buffet for you to pick and choose from? That's the mistake that most purists commit. They interpret everything that they like literally and what they don't like to hear they find an excuse for.

That's why hardliners are despised in KSA contrary to popular belief on PDF. If the views of the actual Saudi Arabian users on PDF did not prove you or anybody else wrong here. There have been about 20-25 Saudi Arabian users on PDF and not a single one was a Islamist. Yet all I hear is "Wahhabi" this and that. What "Wahhabi" I ask? Those 80 + year old clerics who are not even that bad at the end of the day (for the most part)? Or is "Wahhabi" just a nice swearword that one can use to label every "Muslim" that one does not like? The reality is that this is the exact case by many. Which makes the discourse quite pathetic if you ask me.

Go read the newly published data from OBL. Everything should become clear afterwards.

I know that you will now call me a Zionist agent etc. but this is how I see it.

 

[BHarwana]

Because it is called a house of God..

Okay it is house of God but with a statue of son of God in it so where does that places us. I will pray in the house of Allah or on the Land of Allah I have no need to go to church why would i do that?

 

[TheCamelGuy]

can we stop building religious institutions, instead universities

 

[BHarwana]

So because of politics (Israel and the Palestinian conflict) you are supposedly willing to alter the teachings of your religion? Is that how low you value Islam that it becomes a Swedish buffet for you to pick and choose from? That's the mistake that most purists do. They interpret everything that they like literally and what they don't like to hear they find an excuse for.

I know that you will now call me a Zionist agent etc. but this is how I see it.

I am not opposing any teaching of Islam I am simply asking an example where this act was done by my Holy Prophet (PBUH) Because Christianity is older than Islam and there were churches in Holy Prophets (PBUH) time and Life of Holy Prophet is an example for all muslims to follow and decide on issues like this. Please give example and I will go to the church to pray. Lol how hard is that for you to do. If you don't have example cut the crap then.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Interesting. This should blow the bottom out of many Pakistanis. Have you source for this please?

The Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-worlds-atheists-live/?utm_term=.b9438e43e11b

From 2013.

That number has not exactly fallen since then (post-Daesh).

It's well known in the Arab world that there is a strong atheist community in KSA. Many atheist forums in Arabic are owned and managed by Saudi Arabians.

I actually blame this on those same hardliners (purists) that most of us speak against.

70% + percent of the population of Saudi Arabia (almost 30 million) are below 30 years. Most are tired of religious discourses and want to improve their country. MbS (himself being 32 years old) wants to do the same. Hence the many promising news and reforms coming out from KSA.

This won't change but continue and at a more quick pace. There will be bumps in the roads and the conservative/reactionary minority (although loud) will try to stop this progress or halt it but it won't succeed.

But in the eyes of the PDF crowd (who mostly have not visited KSA a single time or met a single Saudi Arabian in their life) everything is just "Wahhabi".

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Swedish buffet for you to pick and choose from? That's the mistake that most purists commit. They interpret everything that they like literally and what they don't like to hear they find an excuse for.

Yipeeeee. Go for it.

I know that you will now call me a Zionist agent etc. but this is how I see it.

Your a realist. And that is a good thing.

I will throw party when MBS recognizes Israel and KSA opens a nice fancy embassy in Jerusalam.

 

[The SC]

Okay it is house of God but with a statue of son of God in it so where does that places us. I will pray in the house of Allah or on the Land of Allah I have no need to go to church why would i do that?

Just if it is necessary..i.e, very cold outside or raining or similar exceptional circumstances.. otherwise no need..any clean spot of land is OK..

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I am not opposing any teaching of Islam I am simply asking an example where this act was done by my Holy Prophet (PBUH) Because Christianity is older than Islam and there were churches in Holy Prophets (PBUH) time and Life of Holy Prophet is an example for all muslims to follow and decide on issues like this. Please give example and I will go to the church to pray. Lol how hard is that for you to do. If you don't have example cut the crap then.

What? Is Islam not supposed to be a continuation of the monotheistic faith (with a few revisions) of past Prophets? Christianity and Judaism are off-shots. Christianity's main Prophet (made into a God/the representation of God in flesh and blood by some Christians) was Jesus/ISA (as) while in Islam Prophet Muhammad (saws) is the final messenger and redeemer of what was lost.

Similar can be said about Judaism. Hence the "Abrahamic" religions notion.

Look, this fatwa or what we shall call it is a well-established one throughout history. Nobody is saying to you that you should pray in a church or synagogue. It is just being said (based on previous tradition and historical evidence) that you are allowed to. Just like you are allowed to pray at the top of some mountain, in the desert or in a farm.

No, but Prophet Muhammad (saws) married a Christian lady, was hosted by Christians and Jews alike in Arabia and outside of it (the migration to Abyssinia comes to mind in particular) and this "little" thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtiname_of_Muhammad





Well, Omar ibn al-Khattab (ra) prayed in churches in Palestine. The earliest Muslims, despite controlling an empire (largest to date) stretching from Southern France to India did not erase any of the holiest Christian and Jewish religious sites. All those ancient pre-Islamic heritage that you can see from Yemen to Iraq (talking about the Arab Near East here) were not erased despite their pagan past. Why is that? It only became a problem a few years ago when Daesh arrived. Don't you think that this should tell a lot?

What was erased (from what I have been taught and know so far) where mostly pagan temples but whether that was a good idea or not can be discussed depending on your views. For some reason I personally believe that this was wrong as I like historical heritage. Probably some churches and synagogs were destroyed during war/conflict or turned into mosques but they were few in between.

Which is why the most famous example of this practice is Hagia Sophia. Something that occurred almost 1000 years later.

Of course you can interpret religion as you want to in theory. Daesh is a good example of this.

 

[The SC]

I am not opposing any teaching of Islam I am simply asking an example where this act was done by my Holy Prophet (PBUH) Because Christianity is older than Islam and there were churches in Holy Prophets (PBUH) time and Life of Holy Prophet is an example for all muslims to follow and decide on issues like this. Please give example and I will go to the church to pray. Lol how hard is that for you to do. If you don't have example cut the crap then.

Our holy prophet (PBUH) seeked protection with his early followers From a Christian tribe, they were very kind to him..asked him many questions and found a lot of affinity with Islam .. also they have prayed God together..
Look for this information..it is a well know fact..

 

[Saif al-Arab]

can we stop building religious institutions, instead universities

Well, KSA has taken the lead in that field in the Arab world and arguably the Muslim world in the past 10-15 years.

https://www.topuniversities.com/uni...rankings/top-10-universities-arab-region-2018

I am just saying. I have personally been calling for that for ages. I don't understand why Iraq is not doing that and using the oil/gas wealth better. Or why gas-rich Algeria is building the third largest mosque in the world in Algiers instead of building a new university which the country needs a lot. There are 10.000's of mosques in Algeria. Maybe 1 million actually.

Wahhabis are the forefront but many people do not know/will not accept this. Now with the 32 year old Wahhabi (MbS) soon to take reign (unless somebody murders him or ousts him - let us pray that this will not be the case) the Wahhabis will improve even more.

 

[BHarwana]

Just if it is necessary..i.e, very cold outside or raining or similar exceptional circumstances.. otherwise no need..any clean spot of land is OK..

okay let me ask you this. Are you a muslim? If so can you please tell how many have given live to preserve the the true Islam. Hazrat Imam Hussain died in Karbala to preserve Islam? I will offer Prayers in the clod rather than offering in front of some statue. Can you offer prayers without visue yes, tayamum is allowed so if there is no water we can do Tayamum. there is no where it is told to offer prayer in front of a statue if it is cold out side. Sorry bro not my islam.

 

[BHarwana]

first of there were jews, Allah sent a prophet and introduced christanity and then Allah sent a Prophet and introduced Islam is there any thing that cam after Islam? No the religion was complete after Islam. So I cannot move back to christanity and then judiasim I am a follower of the final Holy Prophet (PBUH). The teaching of Islam are the end there are no more Prophets and there is no more additions so I will stick with My Islam bro.