Top Saudi Arabian scholar says Muslims may pray in churches and synagogues

[The SC]

okay let me ask you this. Are you a muslim? If so can you please tell how many have given live to preserve the the true Islam. Hazrat Imam Hussain died in Karbala to preserve Islam? I will offer Prayers in the clod rather than offering in front of some statue. Can you offer prayers with visue yes, tayamum is allowed so if there is no water we can do Tayamum. there is no where it is told to offer prayer in front of a statue if it is cold out side. Sorry bro not my islam.

I understand your point of view.. I am just saying..out of necessity.. it is allowed to pray in any monotheistic House of God.. Kaaba is not aligned with statues in Churches.. you might even be giving your back to the statues.. The intention of praying to Allah takes precedence on anything else..

first of there were jews, Allah sent a prophet and introduced christanity and then Allah sent a Prophet and introduced Islam is there any thing that cam after Islam? No the religion was complete after Islam. So I cannot move back to christanity and then judiasim I am a follower of the final Holy Prophet (PBUH). The teaching of Islam are the end there are no more Prophets and there is no more additions so I will stick with My Islam bro.

First there was Abraham the first Muslim..then came the rest.. before him there were other prophets back to Adam..

 

[Saif al-Arab]

first of there were jews, Allah sent a prophet and introduced christanity and then Allah sent a Prophet and introduced Islam is there any thing that cam after Islam? No the religion was complete after Islam. So I cannot move back to christanity and then judiasim I am a follower of the final Holy Prophet (PBUH). The teaching of Islam are the end there are no more Prophets and there is no more additions so I will stick with My Islam bro.

You are not reading what is being written to you. So having a serious discourse is quite difficult if not impossible. You only read what you want to read. Nobody has told you to leave Islam for Judaism or Christianity. I am not sure where you invented such nonsense but try to read what I and @The SC have actually written to you.

i don't follow any member of this so called council of senior scholar.i don't have any respect for scholars from ksa.i only follow islam and not a religion which is self created by wahhabis or athel e hadees.they can continue their good work but who cares! ksa is responsible for this wahhabism disease in entire punjab,now they want muslim countries to accept them.muslims have great history and you can go and find any great scholar in turkey or even in palestine.we don't need these jokers to taught us religion.someday they will allow worship of idols and might call it rightful act.muslims don't need these jokers.muslims are still in power.they are not weak like al saud.

Another "genius" in action that I was talking about earlier. To me he sounds even more backward than the biggest purists in KSA. Yet apparently an enemy of the invisible "Wahhabis". Especially the "we Muslims" as if what is modern-day KSA (cradle of Islam and its people who have the greatest connection to past Islamic dynasties, Ahl al-Bayt, as-Sahabah, the greatest Islamic scholars throughout history, some if not the most important Islamic personalities in all fields) were non-Muslims and suddenly dumped down on earth from space yesterday.

Some of those clerics descend directly from some of the most respected members of the as-Sahabah.

You can disagree or agree with some of them (I am not even sure that you are familiar with even 1 of them) but to write such nonsense and engage in outright takfirism while trying to sound "progressive" is some own goal, I must say.

Change your disc. It's pathetic.

Your agenda is well-known. This demonization won't succeed and has failed by large.

 

[BHarwana]

I understand your point of view.. I am just saying..out of necessity.. it is allowed to pray in any monotheistic House of God.. Kaaba is not aligned with statues in Churches.. you might even be giving your back to the statues.. The intention of praying to Allah takes precedence on anything else..

Sir if you are traveling it is allowed to offer less rakats you will not die with that. and you are also allowed to ofer while sitting if your legs are not working you don't need to go to church. But if you are using Islam for diplomacy then it is a totally different thing.

First there was Abraham the first Muslim..then came the rest.. before him there were other prophets back to Adam..

I was trying to keep it surmised. did not wanted to make lengthy post with no fruitful views like my friends here.

 

[BHarwana]

You are not reading what is being written to you. So having a serious discourse is quite difficult if not impossible. You only read what you want to read. Nobody has told you to leave Islam for Judaism or Christianity. I am not sure where you invented such nonsense but try to read what I and @The SC have actually written to you.

I am reading all and I am also talking about what is not being written. They Christians are heavily divided and Catholics that are associated with Roman church are the people who worship statues and I know more than your Saudi cleric what I am talking about. I know the whole history of Roman Catholic church.

 

[The SC]

Sir if you are traveling it is allowed to offer less rakats you will not die with that. and you are also allowed to ofer while sitting if your legs are not working you don't need to go to church. But if you are using Islam for diplomacy then it is a totally different thing.


I was trying to keep it surmised. did not wanted to make lengthy post with no fruitful views like my friends here.

We are not talking about when travelling or being crippled.. a real example will be France and other European countries where there are not enough mosques for their big Muslim communities.. people sometimes pray on the streets when the weather is fair.. but what if the weather is bellow freezing temperatures.. of course this is a temporary solution..

 

[BHarwana]

don't read them.when scholars from ksa say something,think of it as an evil whispering in your ears. they are evil people on earth.someday they will allow worship of idols and call it faithful right.stay away from them.al saud and entire wahhabism is a disease.

Do you really think Muslims take these scholars serious lol no man. They are not the thekadars of Islam. The best thing about Islam is that no one can corrupt it add any thing to it or subtract it.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I am reading all and I am also talking about what is not being written. They Christians are heavily divided and Catholics that are associated with Roman church are the people who worship statues and I know more than your Saudi cleric what I am talking about. I know the whole history of Roman Catholic church.

So you are saying that people who have spent their entire life on studying Islam and by default other Abrahamic religions (for the most part) know nothing? People who are able to read all the primary sources written in Classical Arabic unlike you?

I have relatives that are Roman Catholics. So what? I know this religion/sect of Christianity well too. Saints, papacy, monks, celibacy, Constantine the Great, the trinity etc. I am quite well-versed in Abrahamic religions overall but I am of course no scholar or expert.

If you ask me (and I mean no offense) Shia Islam reminds me much more of Catholicism than orthodox/traditional Sunni Islam does.

No need to mention "saints" here, graves, a centralist clergy, worshipping/revering certain clerics (based on ancestry or rank) over others etc.

Anyway not sure what your problem is? Nowhere in this fatwa/opinion does it say that you are forced to pray in churches or synagogues just that it is legal based on precedent.

I don't want to waste more time on this nonsense discussion. There are literally 1000's of topics that I would rather discuss and that I consider more important.

 

[BHarwana]

We are not talking about when travelling or being crippled.. a real example will be France and other European countries where there are not enough mosques for their big Muslim communities.. people sometimes pray on the streets when the weather is fair.. but what if the weather is bellow freezing temperatures.. of course this is a temporary solution..

They should build a mosque then or rent a place to pray or get together in some house to pray. If the Gov is not allowing to do any then they should migrate. Thats how Islam works.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

They should build a mosque then or rent a place to pray or get together in some house to pray. If the Gov is not allowing to do any then they should migrate. Thats how Islam works.

When KSA is building mosques and gives money to Muslim communities across the world (despite the host countries, European included, agreeing to it and THEM appointing the clerics NOT KSA), you are denouncing it. Now you want Muslims to built mosques to Muslim in the West. Who are those Muslim countries who can afford to do such a thing aside from KSA and the GCC? They can be counted on a few hands. Iran and Turkey are one of the few examples.

Speaking about Belgium (just a few days ago):

Special Adviser to the Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Call and Guidance, Ibrahim Al-Zaid presenting a memento to Dirk Achten, vice-minister and secretary general at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Belgium, in Riyadh on Tuesday. (SPA)

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1190531/saudi-arabia

So when some government appointed cleric (not even from KSA) makes some radical statements in a mosque built by KSA, KSA is somehow blamed. That practice should stop completely and I am hopeful that MbS will stop it. The money is better spent inside KSA.

Hypocrisy, contradiction etc. everywhere. No wonder the sad state of the Muslim world. Agendas everywhere not based on religion but other interests and bias. Pathetic.

 

[BHarwana]

So you are saying that people who have spent their entire life on studying Islam and by default other Abrahamic religions (for the most part) know nothing? People who are able to read all the primary sources written in Classical Arabic unlike you?

I have relatives that are Roman Catholics. So what? I know this religion/sect of Christianity well too. Saints, papacy, monks, celibacy, Constantine the Great, the trinity etc. I am quite well-versed in Abrahamic religions overall but I am of course no scholar or expert.

If you ask me (and I mean no offense) Shia Islam reminds me much more of Catholicism than orthodox/traditional Sunni Islam does.

No need to mention saints here, graves, a centralist clergy, worshipping/revering certain clerics (based on ancestry or rank) over others etc.

Anyway not sure what your problem is? Nowhere in this fatwa/opinion does it say that you are forced to pray in churches or synagogues just that it is legal based on precedent

I don't want to waste more time on this nonsense discussion. There are literally 1000's of topics that I would rather discuss and that I consider more important.

Hello man I am no shia and I am no sunni you could be any one you want I am a Muslim my Holy Prophet PBUH was just a Muslim. My religion is Islam and it is the most simple religion in the world.

 

[The SC]

They should build a mosque then or rent a place to pray or get together in some house to pray. If the Gov is not allowing to do any then they should migrate. Thats how Islam works.

Easy said than done.. they have a lot of mosques.. but it is just not enough for all of them.. I was just giving an example here..Most European Muslims are fourth generation.. where do you want them to go.. that is too simplistic.. the point of this thread is like what @Saif al-Arab has said in his post #40.. you know well that religious discussions are not allowed on PDF.. so let's keep it at that and try to understand the context of the thread instead..

 

[BHarwana]

When KSA is building mosques and gives money to Muslim communities across the world (despite the host countries, European included, agreeing to it and THEM appointing the clerics NOT KSA), you are denouncing it. Now you want Muslims to built mosques to Muslim in the West. Who are those Muslim countries who can afford to do such a thing aside from KSA and the GCC? They can be counted on a few hands. Iran and Turkey are one of the few examples.

Hypocrisy, contradiction etc. everywhere. No wonder the sad state of the Muslim world. Agendas everywhere not based on religion but other interests and bias. Pathetic.

Hahaha all mosques in the world are paid by KSA lol come on man. We have more Mosques in Pakistan than you have in KSA and they were build by local population. If KSA is paying for the mosque in the other countries that will help them in the life here after. They are doing it for them selves to get a higher status in heavens and they should keep on doing that. it is a good thing but that does not make them thekadar of Islam. The Islam is complete KSA cannot add new things to it.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Hahaha all mosques in the world are paid by KSA lol come on man. We have more Mosques in Pakistan than you have in KSA and they were build by local population. If KSA is paying for the mosque in the other countries that will help them in the life here after. They are doing it for them selves to get a higher status in heavens and they should keep on doing that. it is a good thing but that does not make them thekadar of Islam. The Islam is complete KSA cannot add new things to it.

Where did I state that? Inventing nonsense again? Twisting my words again?

I said that a large percentage of mosques built across the world in non-Muslim and Muslim countries are built/funded by KSA and the GCC. From Argentina to New Zealand. I used that as an example of "damned if you do damned if you don't". This basically describes KSA in a nutshell. No matter what KSA does people (some at least) will always complain.

Other "pioneers" on this front are Turkey and Iran.

Of course there are more mosques in Pakistan (not sure but at least that should be the case) when the population of Pakistan is 6 times bigger.

Similarly there are more mosques in KSA than in Qatar due to KSA having an almost 150 times larger population.

Anyway let us leave it at that. This discussion is really not very interesting.

Hello man I am no shia and I am no sunni you could be any one you want I am a Muslim my Holy Prophet PBUH was just a Muslim. My religion is Islam and it is the most simple religion in the world.

Shia or no Shia. It does not matter here. Your comments do and they are quite aligned to what the average ignorant Shia propagandizes from what I have experienced/seen online.

 

[BHarwana]

Easy said than done.. they have a lot of mosques.. but it is just not enough for all of them.. I was just giving an example here..Most European Muslims are fourth generation.. where do you want them to go.. that is too simplistic.. the point of this thread is like what @Saif al-Arab has said in his post #40.. you know well that religious discussions are not allowed on PDF.. so let's keep it at that and try to understand the context of the thread instead..

I gave you the example of Karbala in earlier post there are no conditions more difficult that those and that was the family of our Holy Prophet PBUH. We have to follow Islam we cannot mold it to our easiness my point is just that.

Where did I state that? Inventing nonsense again? Twisting my words again?

I said that a large percentage of mosques built across the world in non-Muslim and Muslim countries is built/funded by KSA and the GCC. From Argentina to New Zealand. I used that as an example of "damned if you do damned if you don't". This basically describes KSA in a nutshell. No matter what KSA does people (some at least) will always complain.

Of course there are more mosques in Pakistan (not sure but at least that should be the case) when the population of Pakistan is 6 times bigger.

Similarly there are more mosques in KSA than in Qatar due to KSA having an almost 150 times larger population.

Look man it is very simple if you can understand it If you build a 100,000 mosques in one city you still cannot change Islam there is no thekadar of Islam. Islam has taught me to pray after Imam that I think is true and Muslim If i have a little doubt in my mind about that Imam, In Islam I am allowed to walk away from that Imam. Islam is complete you cannot add to it or subtract from it. These people doing suicide bombings in name of religion are all wrong as suicide is a crime in Islam so if a thekadar tells them to do so he is wrong. It is very simple. My advice to you is Cry a river build a bridge and get over it. We are Muslims and I consider no one living a better Muslim than me we all are equal. Any one greater than me is Holy Prophet PBUH his descendants and his Shaba kareem. I give a shit what a Saudi cleric says or any other thekadar say.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Look man it is very simple if you can understand it If you build a 100,000 mosques in one city you still cannot change Islam there is no thekadar of Islam. Islam has taught me to pray after Imam that I think is true and Muslim If i have a little doubt in my mind about that Imam, In Islam I am allowed to walk away from that Imam. Islam is complete you cannot add to it or subtract from it. These people doing suicide bombings in name of religion are all wrong as suicide is a crime in Islam so if a thekadar tells them to do so he is wrong. It is very simple. My advice to you is Cry a river build a bridge and get over it. We are Muslims and I consider no one living a better Muslim than me we all are equal. Any one greater than me is Holy Prophet PBUH his descendants and his Shaba kareem. I give a shit what a Saudi cleric says or any other thekadar say.

You can do whatever you want to. I am not holding your back nor do I frankly (if I am to be honest here) care.

Why are you blabbering about suicide bombings out of a sudden? Clerics in KSA have never supported it. KSA was one of the first countries to denounce it when the first modern suicide bombings occurred in Lebanon in the early 1980's. Committed by Hezbollah and supported by you know who (Iranian Mullah's).

Qatar is in fact the one hosting clerics that openly support such acts while we speak.

Clerics who openly talk about targeting the Egyptian army, police and public workers by suicide bombings.

The hideous Al-Jazeera propaganda channel acted like the official spokesmen of Al-Qaeda and Daesh. Read the recently published documents of OBL's diary which also prove a close relationship between Al-Qaeda and Iran. Well-known ages ago in fact. He praises Al-Jazeera and denounces Al-Arabiya. No need to say more.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...document-describes-iran-al-qaeda-link-n816681

http://www.thearabweekly.com/Opinion/9643/Osama-Bin-Laden,-Al-Jazeera-and-the-Muslim-Brotherhood

Watch the great and eloquent Adel al-Jubeir in action below;

Al-Jubeir talks about this in detail.

The group with the highest rate of suicide attacks actually follows a Marxist (PKK) ideology. Maybe Daesh have surpassed them in recent years, not sure.