Top Arab TTP Planner captured in Punjab

[TalibanSwatter]

And that is the thing you should do first - bashing India can follow. Simply because you do not have evidence against India, but you have against the Saudis. I sometimes wonder why an Indian hand is alleged so vehemently without any evidence & a Saudi hand is taken so casually even with concrete evidence. Is it just because they are a Muslim country & India is not? I guess so.

fair point - The more obvious and evident threat needs to be sorted out first.

The days of the pakistani people and media treating the Salafi Saudis like holy cows are numbered. More and more Pakistanis are becoming aware of the diabolical agenda being promoted by the Salafi Arabs and their TTP stooges in our backyard - and we will not stand for their thuggery anymore!

 

[PeacefulIndian]

This all very strange......can't find the dog tail...look like too many countries combing this dog of terror tail....

TalibanSwatter gets it. May be you should get it to. Start tracing the dog tail from the point you see it clearly. And if the tail leads to India, bash India. That is only fair.

 

[S-2]

"whats the role of 18 consulate along Pak-Afghan border..."

This is depressing. After all these years we've still got this nonsense going on. There are four consulates and one embassy by India inside Afghanistan. This is by invitation of the afghan government and provided within Memoradums of Understanding between those two countries.

The EXACT same number, btw, as Pakistan, and in the exact same cities. Jalalabad, Kandahar, Herat, Mazur-I-Sharif, and of course, Kabul. No more than that. Please use google and research your shop-worn myths.

 

[S-2]

Your article lacks a link but doesn't lack importance.

I think that it's important, though, to separate the KSA and G.C.C. emirate states from their very wealthy citizens. Most of the royalty and their governments hold no love for Al Qaeda but to a great extent must accomodate some wahabbist/salafi influence to placate their populations.

Many privately wealthy wahabbi citizens, however, find it a prideful and convenient matter to send cheques in the mail to their favorite irhabist gun-tottin' charities. Makes them feel as though they're doing their bit without having to leave the comfort of their air-conditioned palaces. Sort of remote jihad that provides a vicarious and titillating thrill from afar.

They are the real problem and they are, frankly, harder to monitor than state-sponsored terror-which I don't believe either the G.C.C. emirates nor the KSA would indulge.

This guy has A.Q. all over him. In so doing, you can just about remove all the other suspicious names from your list of supporters for the TTP.

I subscribe to two known facts- 1.) There's a crapload of wealthy wahabbists in the gulf states and the KSA and, 2.) the world's richest and biggest private arms dealers are hanging out in that same locale.

I also subscribe to one bit of S-2 speculation- a lot of opium moves from Afghanistan to the G.C.C. through Iran and Pakistani Baluchistan and then throughout the world via these same illicit arms channels and guns move back the other way-likely in great big containers that arrive in Karachi and travel north on truck to places like Tank without ever being opened and customs-searched.

Sheer speculation and not intended to dilute the importance of this capture.

Now remember-no waterboarding, no torture, halal meals, and fair treatment/access to attorneys and due process under your laws.

Great job!

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Your article lacks a link but doesn't lack importance.

I think that it's important, though, to separate the KSA and G.C.C. emirate states from their very wealthy citizens. Most of the royalty and their governments hold no love for Al Qaeda but to a great extent must accomodate some wahabbist/salafi influence to placate their populations.

Many privately wealthy wahabbi citizens, however, find it a prideful and convenient matter to send cheques in the mail to their favorite irhabist gun-tottin' charities. Makes them feel as though they're doing their bit without having to leave the comfort of their air-conditioned palaces. Sort of remote jihad that provides a vicarious and titillating thrill from afar.

They are the real problem and they are, frankly, harder to monitor than state-sponsored terror-which I don't believe either the G.C.C. emirates nor the KSA would indulge.

This guy has A.Q. all over him. In so doing, you can just about remove all the other suspicious names from your list of supporters for the TTP.

I subscribe to two known facts- 1.) There's a crapload of wealthy wahabbists in the gulf states and the KSA and, 2.) the world's richest and biggest private arms dealers are hanging out in that same locale.

Great job!

S-2: As you rightly point out, the Saudi Salafi network has lots of influential local backers considering they are able to export the jihad business model around the world. Pakistan is simply one of the more prominent theatres of operation.

It should be noted that KSA is a pretty dysfunctional setup where the Salafists have piggybacked on the House of Saud to consolidate their power and influence. Many governance aspects in the kingdom are directly under the control of the Salafis due to the Saud's efforts to placate the Salafi clerics. So, it is likely that the jihadists have a lot of sympathizers within the 'ruling' clique as well as private wealthy individuals outside the establishment.

Clearly, whatever the Sauds are doing to counter the Salafi Jihad Network has not worked. The Salafis are deeply entrenched within the system, and may even have some support within the royal family given their century-old alliance.

I would urge the US to start focusing on the Salafi Jihad threat as its number one priority. The Saudi Salafis pose a much greater danger than Iran ever will. Al Qaeda originated from this very same salafi sensibility.

Despite the nucelar program issue, the US should try to promote a peaceful democratic transition in Iran. The Iranian population is pretty progressive as was demonstrated in the last election. Iran wants to retain its regional influence. However, unlike the Salafis and notwithstanding the dictatorship in its own house, Iran is not trying to hijack other countries and indoctrinate the relevant population at gunpoint.

Unlike Iran, the Global Salafi Jihad movement is an existential threat for both the Pakistanis and the Americans. You already have experienced 9/11 not to mention the Salafi-backed foreign fighters killing Shias in Iraq, and we are suffering across our cities and tribal areas at the hands of our local salafi-backed jihadi syndicate.

If you want to defeat the Global Salafi Jihad movement, you have to seriously tackle the root of the problem - the central hub of the network in Saudi. That is where everything flows from.

Once the Salafi HQ is neutralized or cleansed, the funding, arms, and indoctrination support will dry up to a large extent, and the jihadi field operations will simply wither away.

 

[seekers]

fair point - The more obvious and evident threat needs to be sorted out first.

The days of the pakistani people and media treating the Salafi Saudis like holy cows are numbered. More and more Pakistanis are becoming aware of the diabolical agenda being promoted by the Salafi Arabs and their TTP stooges in our backyard - and we will not stand for their thuggery anymore!

Even US can't do against saudi holy cow,because its Milk;OIL.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Even US can't do against saudi holy cow,because its Milk;OIL.

Despite the oil consideration, the US should stop treating the Salafi Jihad HQ with kid gloves for its own security.

 

[S-2]

"Despite the oil consideration, the US should stop treating the Salafi Jihad HQ with kid gloves for its own security."

Can't argue the point and wish it would be so. I'm afraid that, although we aren't particularly vulnerable to Saudi oil threats (or similar threats from others in the region), most of our key western allies are.

Europe is proving difficult, as usual, in getting them to line up on any principled stance short of immediate or near-term self-interest.

Can't argue your point about Iran either except to say that any hint of our involvement plays right into Al Quds/Pasdaran/mullah hands. We're all over a peaceful democratic transistion but those nukes mean as much as a point of pride to Iran as they do to Pakistan. In that regard, that particular technology transcends political affiliation, IMHO.

There's a lot that we can do militarily to any muslim nation in the region, including Pakistan. That only begs the question, though, of "what next" if we did...

...or, "so what"?

Beyond that, real functional change of the type that the smarmy know-it-all west would like to see is decades off. That, btw, will only come when we in the west radically reduce our dependance on fossil fuels.

Until then America and Europe even more will always err towards caution when it comes to really rocking the boat. My guess is the PRC and India as well. Energy drives the global economy and oil/LNG are the preferred vehicles to that end.

Make the societal move there and the world becomes a dramatically different place overnight. If America really wishes to lead in a dramatic way, that's the place to drag the rest of mankind. Anything else is simply tinkering with the combustive mix of the current engine of progress.

We need a new drug...

 

[TalibanSwatter]

"Despite the oil consideration, the US should stop treating the Salafi Jihad HQ with kid gloves for its own security."

Can't argue the point and wish it would be so. I'm afraid that, although we aren't particularly vulnerable to Saudi oil threats (or similar threats from others in the region), most of our key western allies are.

Europe is proving difficult, as usual, in getting them to line up on any principled stance short of immediate or near-term self-interest.


There's a lot that we can do militarily to any muslim nation in the region, including Pakistan. That only begs the question, though, of "what next" if we did...

...or, "so what"?

Beyond that, real functional change of the type that the smarmy know-it-all west would like to see is decades off. That, btw, will only come when we in the west radically reduce our dependance on fossil fuels.

Until then America and Europe even more will always err towards caution when it comes to really rocking the boat. My guess is the PRC and India as well. Energy drives the global economy and oil/LNG are the preferred vehicles to that end.

:

fair comment - I have one question though.

Can the US afford to 'not rock the Salafi Jihad boat' in light of its oil dependence for the next few decades, while the Salafi Jihadis continue waging wars and plotting 9/11-scale terrorist attacks on the US??

I suppose the assumption here is if the Salafi network in Saudi is targeted, the oil supply will be cut off. Why does the Saud family not take action against the radical salafi clergy and jihadists if the ruling family, as you say, are pitted against the Salafis?

And if the saudi government is anti-salafi jihad then why should the oil supply ever be affected?

Or could it be that the Saud family has a symbiotic relationship with the Salafis, and considers the latter as a 'dysfunctional' sibling, but a sibling all the same?

The original assumption seems to imply that the Salafis have a pretty big say in the government, and have an ability to destabilise the ruling family.

What will the US do if a Salafi Jihadist cell executes a successful 9/11-scale attack in a couple of years?

 

[S-2]

"Can the US afford to 'not rock the Salafi Jihad boat' in light of its oil dependence for the next few decades, while the Salafi Jihadis continue waging wars and plotting 9/11-scale terrorist attacks on the US??"

So three thoughts come to mind immediately- 1.) Let's remember from where those salafi jihadis are waging their wars and plotting their attacks these days and, 2.) let's answer this question if/when the next 9/11 goes down successfully to see what sort of tolerance the U.S./west has for more of the same. Finally, 3.) civilians are interesting in that they present Saudi Arabia with a considerable degree of plausible deniability-particularly when both the planners and attackers aren't doing their prep in-country.

Works just like proxy warriors do elsewhere.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be Pakistan if the next 9/11 is anything like the last 9/11. The west, particularly America, has been loud and clear about aborgating sovereign responsibility on Pakistan's tribal lands. That's been a real issue for some many years now.

One thing you'll grant about the KSA- they do a good job of getting their prime azzholes out of their country. They don't really care where they go as long as they leave KSA. Yemen works fine for them. Once gone, though, you usually aren't coming back.

If there's another successful attack on the west comparable in scale to 9/11 and we really think that wahab/salafi azzholes like OBL and Zawahiri are hanging out with guys like Haqqani/Hekmatyar/Omar there may be no Armitage moment.

What might there be? I don't know but I wouldn't want to find out either.

To that end, Saudi oil might have greater strategic deterrence than Pakistani nukes.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

"Can the US afford to 'not rock the Salafi Jihad boat' in light of its oil dependence for the next few decades, while the Salafi Jihadis continue waging wars and plotting 9/11-scale terrorist attacks on the US??"

So three thoughts come to mind immediately- 1.) Let's remember from where those salafi jihadis are waging their wars and plotting their attacks these days and, , 3.) civilians are interesting in that they present Saudi Arabia with a considerable degree of plausible deniability-particularly when both the planners and attackers aren't doing their prep in-country.

Works just like proxy warriors do elsewhere.


If there's another successful attack on the west comparable in scale to 9/11 and we really think that wahab/salafi azzholes like OBL and Zawahiri are hanging out with guys like Haqqani/Hekmatyar/Omar there may be no Armitage moment.

To that end, Saudi oil might have greater strategic deterrence than Pakistani nukes.

My point was this: If you leave the hub alone and just focus on the staging ground, the hub will simply turn to another proxy location. If its Waziristan today, it'll be Somalia tomorrow.

In other words, the US bombing the hell out of Waziristan is not going to eliminate the bigger problem or the salafi jihad network. The hub will simply turn to another proxy base or create a base elsewhere like it has done in phillipines, somalia, indonesia, sudan and yemen.

If you want to end the puppet show, you have to take out the puppet master.

 

[S-2]

"If you want to end the puppet show, you have to take out the puppet master."

This might be where we differ. I'm unconvinced that the KSA is directly involved in directing A.Q. activities. In fact, as of now, I'm convinced that they aren't.

As to the possibilities that things might just flow elsewhere, I'd suggest that if there were better options for the A.Q. leadership to do so, they would already have done so. There's a reason that they boogied from Somalia. The Phillipines are a non-starter if you've been watching. Yemen is in the midst of a war that has the attention of both the Gov't of Yemen as well as the KSA.

That suggests why other areas may not be as workable as you imply. It doesn't even address why they may find FATAville the preferred locale. Those vary from the inculcation of A.Q. leaders and second echelon leaders into the local society through inter-marriage to the mundane-maybe OBL and Zawahiri are incapable of moving by virtue of health and/or profile.

Just some thoughts, IMHO.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

"If you want to end the puppet show, you have to take out the puppet master."

This might be where we differ. I'm unconvinced that the KSA is directly involved in directing A.Q. activities. In fact, as of now, I'm convinced that they aren't.

.

The KSA is not a monlithic entity. Lets focus on the actual power structure in the kingdom as opposed to a conventional notion of government.

The ruling elite has always been an alliance between the sauds and the salafi clergy since the inception of 'saudi' arabia. So its not unreasonable to assume that there are several factions within the ruling elite.

According to some US officials, portions of the actual ruling family in addition to the salafi clergy sympathize with the Salafi cause - it would be naive to think that the entire ruling family has been immune to salafi indoctrination over the last hundred years.

IMHO - Al Qaeda is the most visible operational arm and a (admittedly important) component of a greater Salafi Jihad Network.

 

[S-2]

I adhere to a simple rule in life-

"Never say never".

No entity is monolithic in its entirety. You may have insights to those with their hands on the levers of control within the KSA. I don't know their leadership well at all.

"it would be naive to think that the entire ruling family has been immune from salafi indoctrination over the last hundred years."

As mentioned above, it's a question of whom and what levers they may pull and the surreptitious means by which they do so. It is, after all, a rather extended family. At some point what might be done has to be viewed as a personal choice rather than a matter of state policy.

"IMHO - Al Qaeda is merely the most visible operational arm and a (admittedly important) component of a greater Salafi Jihad Network."

You raise a good point on two ends- 1.) that there is an amorphous quality to global irhabism but, 2.) A.Q. branding still carries some potency and to that end, the preservation of those faces of the movement carries some value.

 

[fatman17]

If there's another successful attack on the west comparable in scale to 9/11 and we really think that wahab/salafi azzholes like OBL and Zawahiri are hanging out with guys like Haqqani/Hekmatyar/Omar there may be no Armitage moment.

S-2, you really think OBL and AQ are still in a position to "lauch" another 911 from the rag-tag organisation that AQ is currently - nearly 700-900 members inclusing the top commanders/planners either captured or killed. - OBL and AAZ are now "Symbolic" figureheads who wanna-be terrorists look up to - yes ensure they are eliminated and put back the AQ org 20-30 years in terms of their "ability" to plan and launch 911s anywhere - we r facing our own little 911s on a daily basis and this is the extent (at this point) of their capacity to terrorize.

today makeen has been encircled from all sides - the final battle of SWA is about to begin.

the motto of my unit was KILL THEM ALL and that we must!