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To be a Muslim in India today

:) agreed that most of them only resort to rehtoric but again thats because they dont have any voice. Its important to give voice to Indian Muslims.

A political party for Muslims doesnt mean they are going to preach their faith and practices but for more vocal efforts for utilizing Muslim vote for their uplift.

And tell me do you see any broad based political party in India that is working for uplift of Muslims sincerly and not on the basis of political interests that too just during elections.


What about other measurs like opening educational institutes for Muslims in their own areas instead of going for quota system which is not the solution unless you have an entire education system opened for them and other underprivileged classes

Again we are talking about giving a voice to the under privileged, wether they are muslim or non muslim it doesn't matter. Who do you think broke the tehelka piece on Gujarat riots? The lawyers, Judges and police officers investigating them were all Hindus. Karkare was a high caste Hindu. There are thousands of muslim based NGOs as well as broad based NGOs that are helping out the poor. Even muslim NGOs don't restrict activities to just muslims but to all poor.
You have to understand that the major majority of Indians(including muslims and non muslims) and the strong civil society stand up to help the underprivileged.

Even if you look at just Muslim literacy it is still better than Pakistan (50% vs 59%) so what does that mean? I am not trying to berate Pakistan but lets put the situation in perspective.

When we want to tackle police abuses, we want all political parties to demand and follow up police reforms. This will help everyone not just muslims. When we are talking about poor health care, we want BPL health insurance schemes that will provide free health services to all including muslims. Scholarships are provided to all BPL candidates. And when we talk about minorities, its not just muslims but other minorities that may need an extra hand to catch up. So for example Hindus and Sikhs in J&K are given minority status while Christians and muslims are given the same elsewhere.

You can check out more recent steps taken to improve socio-economic indicators on Ministry of Minority Affairs - Home Page

Indian muslim are not just in needof help, many of them are actively contributing to make India a global power
 
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Although the government has plans to improve conditions of minorities, it is increasingly felt that the community’s
lot will change for the better only when Muslims activists and groups contribute their bit.

Agreed and i wonder when will Indian Muslims wake up to raise their voice.


That property was handed over to Hindu and Sikh Families who moved from Pakistan to India during the same time leaving behind their property and treasures.

Yes but my point was that you are wrong in putting blam on those who migrated to Pakistan for the current poverty and miseries of Indian Muslims.

You said that wealthy Muslims migrated to Pakistan whereas the fact is that those who migrated to Pakistan did not carry anything with them rather everything was left behind.


Bias is every where. Think of Pakistan. Don't you have regional Bias in your Administration. Most of the top jobs are either held by Punjabis.
India is too multi regional for that kind of regional bias so we have religious bias.

I dont think so you can mix up regional with religious biase. Its the question of a biggest minority in India not some regional issue.
 
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hay guy Pakistan is fighting with terrorist for the peace of Ashia not for only Pakistan our solders and peoples fighting for to decrease :flame:insurgence in Ashia

Well both America and Pakistan are fighting the Devil they created themselves. :pop:



When Pakistan won any match against India much of Muslims :sniper:killed in India against reaction
it is best example in India the poor protection facilities for Muslims

Wow:woot: this is news to me. Can you please provide a news item that says Muslim killed because Pakistan beat India in cricket.:bounce:
 
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Well both America and Pakistan are fighting the Devil they created themselves. :pop:





Wow:woot: this is news to me. Can you please provide a news item that says Muslim killed because Pakistan beat India in cricket.:bounce:

Just ignore him. He is posting off topic emotional things
 
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Agreed and i wonder when will Indian Muslims wake up to raise their voice.
I have seen some well educated Muslim youth. Slowly getting involved in Political process and I have also seen Hindu youth involved in NGO's standing up for Muslim community.

So wait, things would change for good.


Yes but my point was that you are wrong in putting blam on those who migrated to Pakistan for the current poverty and miseries of Indian Muslims.

You said that wealthy Muslims migrated to Pakistan whereas the fact is that those who migrated to Pakistan did not carry anything with them rather everything was left behind.

No one is blaming people who migrated for anyones bad. But think, leadership was gone and poor people were left at the mercy of old feudal lords mostly Hindus who exploited Both Muslims and Hindus Equally till the time they could.

I remember my grandmother telling me that Most Hindus(like her family) left their property in Pakistan and that was handed over to Muslim Migrants who could submit proof of his ownership of property in Indian



I dont think so you can mix up regional with religious biase. Its the question of a biggest minority in India not some regional issue.


Bias is bias, no matter what color you want to give it. For example: America still has that kind of bias based on color of the skin and ethnicity. And they have been independent for more than 200 yrs.
 
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And my Problem with posters like you is that you jump without going into details of when these institutions were formed.

we are talking about current Indian government and the need for building educational institutes for millions of deprived Muslims in India currently.

The institutions you mentioned were built mostly before partition and these are one of best institutions.
And if i am not wrong that is the reason that we see more educated Muslims from UP who are also doing well economically.


So the bottom line is create educational facilities for millions of deprived Indian Muslims. Give them chance and you will see they are not un-intellegent. They only lack resources.

Although the mentioned institutions were established pre 1947 the GOI took them under the HRD ministry. Recognized them and provided funds and all the other benifits as they provide to other regular Universities.

GB
 
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Although the mentioned institutions were established pre 1947 the GOI took them under the HRD ministry. Recognized them and provided funds and all the other benifits as they provide to other regular Universities.

GB

Good you atleast realised that these were established before 1947 and not by Indian government.


Now coming towards the point, these institutions are already established and known ones. hence these are open to Muslims and also playing a great role.'

My point is the same if these institutions were epicenter of grooimg Muslims viz viz education and other sectores, then more such institutions needed to be opened.

Start from opening schools in poor areas for them so that they can have an easy access to education, instead of quota system better would be provide infrastructure in these poor areas be it of Muslims or low cast deprived, or brahmin deprived areas.

The key to progress is building of infrastructure which helps in improving not only poverty but also play a great role in over all uplift ranging from creating job opportunities to education and etc
 
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(who BTW 99% are either having a Hindu mother or a Hindu father, or who have adopted Hinduism)

Which muslim media personality has adopted Hinduism????

Having a Hindu mother means the guy is not muslim anymore? Akbar's begum was a Hindu don't forget.

Feroze Khan's mother was persian and father an Afghan
Amir Khan's both parents are muslim
Arshad Warsi's Parents are muslim
Dilip Kumar (real name Yusuf Khan) both parents were muslims.
Irrfan Khan dont have any Hindu background.
Naseeruddin Shah don't have any Hindu background.
Shahrukh Khan don't have any Hindu background although he is married to Hindu woman.
Farooq Shaikh had no Hindu background.
Mamooty (Mohammed Kutty) has no hindu background.

Madhubala, Meena Kumari, Nargis, Mumtaz had no Hindu background nor Hindu parents.

and I can continue this post till evening.........

GB
 
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They stayed back to prove themselves Indians but unfortuantly the you the Indian Hindus still do not accept these Muslims as Indians.

And this is the most unfortunate thing these Indian Muslims are facing even after 62 years.

Well We can not help if you have to chose Zaid over facts and logic.
You call yourself a journalist and how can you be so prejudiced?
 
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Good you atleast realised that these were established before 1947 and not by Indian government.

I was aware of that. The point is they are recognized by GOI under HRD ministry. The much needed funds and other things come from Government and private sector due to the GOI recognition.


Now coming towards the point, these institutions are already established and known ones. hence these are open to Muslims and also playing a great role.'

My point is the same if these institutions were epicenter of grooimg Muslims viz viz education and other sectores, then more such institutions needed to be opened.

Why? The regular universities are compatative enough to do that.

IIM or IIT guy will be always picked up over a Jamia Milia or Aligarh Muslim University student.

The question is if you require Islamic education or the compatative like IIT's or IIM offers you.

Start from opening schools in poor areas for them so that they can have an easy access to education, instead of quota system better would be provide infrastructure in these poor areas be it of Muslims or low cast deprived, or brahmin deprived areas.

There are schools for everyone. Mid Day meals are provided in these schools hence muslim doesn't require special schools. Government schools are open to everyone.


The key to progress is building of infrastructure which helps in improving not only poverty but also play a great role in over all uplift ranging from creating job opportunities to education and etc

I never denied this.

GB
 
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That is the lamest excuse Indians come up with justifying that by having few known movie stars (who BTW 99% are either having a Hindu mother or a Hindu father, or who have adopted Hinduism), by having a Muslim president, they are doing justice to millions of Indian Muslims who are on sorry state.





I would not go for the idea of freedom for these Indian Muslims, but i feel its been too long 62 years and these Muslims have failed to exert pressure for their rights using their vote bank.

So i would rather wish that they could wake up and realise the power of their vote bank. Its high time Indian Muslims should a separate political party for themselves. There have been small groups who had been allies of Congress but i think Indian Muslims need their own political party. That would be best way to go for their rights

One of the greatest scientist Einstein once said that " Its tougher to break prejudice than breaking an atom" and how true was he.

Jana, you are telling that Indian muslims are in a sorry state, but then is it that all Hindus are in a great state? We are a developing country whose 26% population (almost) lives below the poverty line. And that includes Hindu, Muslim, Jain, Christians and everything else. Its not that only muslims are in a sorry state and we are exploiting them.

But still I know you will refute this statement and laugh twice on me, because, you choose to be prejudiced
 
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I was aware of that. The point is they are recognized by GOI under HRD ministry. The much needed funds and other things come from Government and private sector due to the GOI recognition.

Well that is the way in every country. We have several missionary educational institutes and these are now funded by Government of Pakistan.



Why? The regular universities are compatative enough to do that.

IIM or IIT guy will be always picked up over a Jamia Milia or Aligarh Muslim University student.

The question is if you require Islamic education or the compatative like IIT's or IIM offers you.



There are schools for everyone. Mid Day meals are provided in these schools hence muslim doesn't require special schools. Government schools are open to everyone.

You Completly missed the point. No one is calling for establishing Islamic educational institutes. I am asking for opening more schools in Muslims majority areas with normal educational syesten/books which are taught all over India.


And your statement that IIM or IIT guy is always picked up over a Jamia Milia or Aligarh Muslim University student, proves the biase towards Muslims as i dont think so that later offere only Islamic education.

It means that the good institutions are discriminated just because they carry the word Muslim or Jamia.
 
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To be a Muslim in India today


BY HARSH MANDER


To be a member of the largest religious minority in India is to live with a mounting disillusionment and a sense of fear that never goes away…


Sense of alienation: Expressing their dissatisfaction...

“In so many ways, I feel reduced to a second class citizen in my own country, only because of my Muslim identity. I fear we are losing every day the India we love.”


These words, with small variations, echoed in many diverse voices from far corners of the country. In a national meet on the status of Muslims in India today, organised by Anhad in Delhi from October 3 to 5, 2009, many individuals and representatives of organisations gathered from several parts of India. They spoke of negotiating life, relationships, work and the State as members of the largest religious minority in India. The predominant mood in these intense deliberations, which continued late into the evenings, was of sadness and disappointment, and of growing despair. Muslim citizens shared their mounting disillusionment with all institutions of governance, and more so with the police and judiciary, as well as with political parties and to some extent the media, and of a sense of fear that never goes away.

There is, on the one hand, the constant dread of being profiled as a terrorist, or of a loved one being so profiled, with the attendant fears of illegal and prolonged detention, denial of bail, torture, unfair and biased investigation and trial, and extra-judicial killings. There is, on the other hand, the lived experience of day-to-day discrimination, in education, employment, housing and public services, which entrap the community in hopeless conditions of poverty and want. This is fostered in situations of pervasive communal prejudice in all institutions of the State, especially the police, civil administration and judiciary; and also the political leadership of almost all parties; large segments of the print and visual media; and the middle classes, and the systematic manufacture of hate and divide by communal organisations.

The pervasive sense of insecurity, reported from various corners of the country, derive greatly from the prejudice, illegality and impunity with which police forces across the country deal with the challenges of terror. This is a regular pattern that recurs after every terror attack, and sometimes even when there have been no actual terror episodes but the State authorities claim that there was a conspiracy which they detected and prevented.

Chilling pattern

Testimonies from many States in the country — including Maharashtra, Gujarat, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Jammu and Kashmir, and Rajasthan — delineate this chilling pattern of brazen police illegality. Muslim, mostly male, youth, usually with no criminal records, are illegally picked up by policemen in plain clothes, and taken blind-folded in unmarked vehicles to locations like farm houses which are not police stations. There they are tortured to coerce them to confess to terror crimes. Many men testified to brutal and terrifying forms of torture. A few are killed in extra-judicial killings or ‘encounters’. The rest are ultimately produced after several days of illegal detention before magistrates, who deliberately ignore injuries that suggest torture. They are then officially remanded to extended police custody, and ultimately accused of a range of crimes of terror and treason. Many are charged with multiple crimes of terror, sometimes 20 or even 50, allegedly committed in many States, making it impossible for the youth charged with these grave crimes to defend themselves. Even if the legal justice system worked efficiently, it would take many years, sometimes decades, for these cases to be heard and concluded against each of the individuals. For all these years, the youth would continue to be held in detention. Nothing could possibly compensate for their lost years, and for the suffering of those who love them.

Almost none who bears a Muslim identity is exempt from the fear that they, or members of their families, can be subjected to the same allegations of terror links, and to similar processes of detention, torture, encounter killings or prolonged, multiple and biased trials. No class, no profession, no part of the country, is safe, as long as you are Muslim. Completely different standards are applied in the cases of the Hindutva terror organisations which have come to light. It is almost as if being Muslim and (usually) male makes you an automatic suspect of terrorism, and it is not the burden of the State to prove your guilt but your own responsibility to prove your innocence.

Denied aspirations

But the anguish of Muslim citizens was not restricted to targeting in the name of terror. People underlined also the many unmet aspirations of men and women of the community to participate as equal partners in India’s development. Many spoke of the importance to them of modern and high quality schooling and higher education, for both boys and girls, and sought much higher levels of public investment in their education, in modern mainstream schools and institutions of higher education.

There was careful and thoughtful analysis of the design flaws in the schemes of the central UPA government to address the low social and economic indicators documented by the Sachar Committee. It was pointed out that the per capita levels of investment for the community are still abysmally low. The new scheme for investment in districts with high minority population, at best cover 30 per cent of the total population. These programmes, which represent the UPA government’s major initiative to address the socio-economic backwardness of the community, are for development of districts with higher minority populations rather than programmes focussed actually on the minorities; therefore they prove blunt instruments, as much of the expenditure is on general infrastructure and little to directly benefit deprived people of the community. The scholarship programme for girls and boys from minorities was welcomed, but this scheme also suffers from infirmities of procedure and targets which limit its impact. Financial institutions including nationalised banks are still reluctant to extend credit to Muslims.

There were many testimonies about open prejudice and bias of public institutions towards Muslims. There were also reports of profiling against Muslims by the criminal justice system even beyond terror crimes, reflected in disproportionately high Muslim populations in jails. Many sensitive and senior positions in both central and state government departments, including in the home, education, social welfare and information departments, continue to be held by officials with sympathies with communal ideologies and organisations, and the UPA government has done little to identify and replace them.

Widely prevalent

But it was confirmed that these prejudices are equally evident outside government as well. In particular, sections of the media actively reinforce communal stereotypes, as well as uncritically broadcast the police version in terror-related arrests and encounter killings. Textbooks often show similar bias, and this is particularly dangerous because for millions of poor and especially rural children, the textbook is the only source of the printed word which they can access. People also reported bias in private recruitment.

Muslim men and women from many parts of India confirmed difficulties in getting homes on rent or on sale in non- Muslim localities, or admissions in schools and higher education. People spoke of systematic efforts in many corners of the country to destroy and boycott the livelihoods of Muslims. Sustained decentralised hate campaigns are organised which portray Muslim men as predators against Hindu girls, and people who slaughter the cow which is sacred to the Hindu community, and vigilante groups supported tacitly by the police target Muslims violently for these alleged social violations.

These voices are not simply of victimhood or of injustice to a particular community. They testify to the massive and varied challenges that have been mounted against the basic values of the Indian Constitution, including democracy, secularism, fraternity and the rule of law. What is threatened is not just the future and well-being of a community. What is under grave assault is the idea of India itself.

The Hindu : Magazine / Columns : To be a Muslim in India today

Will U ever stop this $£%&
? NOw I see the reason why have U accumulated over 8500 posts and 800 some thanks frm ur followers... cut it out..I can imagine U sitting in ur chair and desperately loking for anti - india articles.... pls have a life... only a few days ago there was a same topic being discused.... with more than 10 odd pages...

IF U R SO `HURT` THEN DO SOMTHING ABT IT JANA...AT LEAST IN UR COUNTRY, WILL U???? UPLIFT THE MINORITIES....YOUR OWN PEOPLE ARE BLOWING UR OWN PEOPLE AWAY .. HUNDREDS OF THEM.... :angry: WHAT HAVE U DONE TO STOP IT.....
 
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One of the greatest scientist Einstein once said that " Its tougher to break prejudice than breaking an atom" and how true was he.

Jana, you are telling that Indian muslims are in a sorry state, but then is it that all Hindus are in a great state? We are a developing country whose 26% population (almost) lives below the poverty line. And that includes Hindu, Muslim, Jain, Christians and everything else. Its not that only muslims are in a sorry state and we are exploiting them.

But still I know you will refute this statement and laugh twice on me, because, you choose to be prejudiced


Agreed with you. And NO i do not refute that majority Hindus are also in the same position in India. Again the opening line of your post sums it up that all this is going on due to prejudice. Dont you think so ?
 
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and about protection of minorities in India
when Pakistan won any match against India much of Muslims :sniper:killed in India against reaction
it is best example in India the poor protection facilities for Muslims

it seem :hitwall: India fail in this regard

Yeah yeah you are absolutely right. That day I myself went out in frustration and killed 2/3 muslims on the street.

So tell your cricket team not to beat our cricket team or else youknow I will go out again and may kill a few more only in sheer frustration...

Puhleesee, are you for real?
 
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