Time for a revised paradigm in South Asia

[Sayfullah]

The only solution is to accept the LoC as international border. This way, both the sides compromise. Pakistan should grab this option before Moooodiiii changes his mind and prepares for the final war.

Prepare for final war please.
It’s been a while since Muslims ruled Dehli.
In Sha Allah after conquering Dehli we shall sacrifice 1000 cows and distribute to meat to the poor miserable pajeet prisoners.

Published in The Express Tribune, July 14th, 2023.

Why are Pakistani liberal secularists so cringe?
They bend over so much for pajeets and get nothing in return.
What a sad life!

LoC = IB

Pakistan’s existence will be in question if it does that.
Pakistan already abandoned jihad and adopted a policy of bending over and sucking off its enemies.
If it publicly does such a thing like publicly announcing to turn LoC into international border then Pakistan it self should be expelled from AJK and GB by the locals.

 

[VkdIndian]

One thing is I am certain of: Just like a poor, unstable Afghanistan is Pakistan's number one headache since 1979, a destabilized Pakistan would be number one headache for India. Indian leadership would be myopic to think otherwise.

Very true. No nation should wish for an unstable neighbourhood.

 

[Sayfullah]

Indeed, the potentials for Pakistan to rise again are great. That's why, with all due respect, I don't look at BD and Sri Lanka as Pakistan's benchmarks in South Asia. A few decades of stability and continuity of policies is all that's needed for Pakistan to rise again.

To the Indians: There is a sea-change in Pakistan for a detente, if not friendship, with India. As I see it, Pakistan, while having the ugly elements like TTP, TLP, and the Lal Masjid type goons, is a different country when it comes to respecting the religious minorities in Pakistan. The old prejucides are going away--like here in America against previously ostracized parts of society. Take the opportunity for a peace now which WILL happen between the two countries anyway--why delay the inevitable. A wise Indian leadership would look at the Musharraf-Manmohan understanding and re-start the dialog. Otherwise, a revived Pakistan, firmly in the Chinese camp, would be a major irritant for India.

One thing is I am certain of: Just like a poor, unstable Afghanistan is Pakistan's number one headache since 1979, a destabilized Pakistan would be number one headache for India. Indian leadership would be myopic to think otherwise. Think long term. Think for the next century and beyond.

Indian visa shouldn’t be hard to get.
Those who love Indians so much can simply just move to india.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

Just waiting for the day India's defence budget overtakes their entire GDP

 

[Kuru]

Prepare for final war please.
It’s been a while since Muslims ruled Dehli.
In Sha Allah after conquering Dehli we shall sacrifice 1000 cows and distribute to meat to the poor miserable pajeet prisoners.

Pehle upcoming loan repayment ki bheek maang le. War baad me kar lena.

 

[Sayfullah]

Pehle upcoming loan repayment ki bheek maang le. War baad me kar lena.

Pakistani establishment is broke. Pakistani pm is a professional beggar.
But what does that have to do with me?
I don’t expect dollarkhor generals to fight Indians. They’re already in bed with you guys.
But even if I take your word and Pakistan is too broke for war, why don’t you guys invade?
If we can’t even pay off our loans why don’t you guys occupy AJK and GB which you claim as your own?
Do make the mistake of messing with us please. We don’t need dollars to show you pajeets your aukat. It’s been quite a while since Muslims raised their flag over Dehli anyways.

 

[maithil]

Pehle upcoming loan repayment ki bheek maang le. War baad me kar lena.

It's the irrelevance which kills them.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

But even if I take your word and Pakistan is too broke for war, why don’t you guys invade?

What kind of a logic is that? Even Sri lanka is broke, doesn't mean we'll attack them for no reason.

If we can’t even pay off our loans why don’t you guys occupy AJK and GB which you claim as your own?

Because we don't have to, there's no point going into a conflict when you're growing.

Do make the mistake of messing with us please. We don’t need dollars to show you pajeets your aukat. It’s been quite a while since Muslims raised their flag over Dehli anyways.

Its been a while we created another Bangladesh

 

[MH.Yang]

Nonsense

Pakistan has been fighting the Hindus even before the independence.

Pakistan was fighting India back in the 1960s when Pakistan was ahead of India in economic growth.

Now tell me why is China fighting Japan and South Korea?

Because Xi wanted to divert the peoples attention from China's internal issues?

China hates the Japanese because of their history, but did not fight them.

The relationship between the two is one of dislike rather than hostility. For example, China and Japan maintain good trade relations and civil exchanges, and when China and Japan meet a large natural disaster, the rescue teams of the two countries are bound to be the fastest foreign rescue teams to arrive at each other.

As for Koreans, we don't even hate them.

China-Japan relations are fundamentally different from India-Pakistan relations.

And none of the Chinese believed that Japan was qualified to be China's rival. Even if China needed an external enemy to unite internally, we would not choose Japan.

 

[indushek]

Indeed, the potentials for Pakistan to rise again are great. That's why, with all due respect, I don't look at BD and Sri Lanka as Pakistan's benchmarks in South Asia. A few decades of stability and continuity of policies is all that's needed for Pakistan to rise again.

To the Indians: There is a sea-change in Pakistan for a detente, if not friendship, with India. As I see it, Pakistan, while having the ugly elements like TTP, TLP, and the Lal Masjid type goons, is a different country when it comes to respecting the religious minorities in Pakistan. The old prejucides are going away--like here in America against previously ostracized parts of society. Take the opportunity for a peace now which WILL happen between the two countries anyway--why delay the inevitable. A wise Indian leadership would look at the Musharraf-Manmohan understanding and re-start the dialog. Otherwise, a revived Pakistan, firmly in the Chinese camp, would be a major irritant for India.

One thing is I am certain of: Just like a poor, unstable Afghanistan is Pakistan's number one headache since 1979, a destabilized Pakistan would be number one headache for India. Indian leadership would be myopic to think otherwise. Think long term. Think for the next century and beyond.

While the rest is logical, the bolded part is the main issue. Has been for many years

Who is offering this peace? Post May 9th its more than clear, to even the blind that Army is 'The Power Center' in Pakistan. Again this has been always known to everyone, who at least tries to read Pakistan in a more rudimentary terms.

Now the Pakistani Military itself isn't a monolith, and has factions in it. India cannot know if everyone is on board this peace plan, and am sure Munir saab will never speak of any divergent voices and make himself look weak. If everyone is onboard, then its all changa. But if they aren't, and lay low till the next one comes, it will be a temporary peace. Its not like Munir saab will stay forever, or the dire situations Pakistan is facing will be here forever either.

Having said that, even few years of peace is fine. Currently India wants to focus on China, so having a peaceful Western border is good. The hawkish section within India though will say that, by accepting some kind of peace deal we will only help Pakistan get back on its feet. Not that we are doing anything now, to actively put down Pakistan.

There is lot of mistrust, so a herculean effort needs to be put in.

 

[Meengla]

Who is offering this peace? Post May 9th its more than clear, to even the blind that Army is 'The Power Center' in Pakistan. Again this has been always known to everyone, who at least tries to read Pakistan in a more rudimentary terms.

Now the Pakistani Military itself isn't a monolith, and has factions in it. India cannot know if everyone is on board this peace plan, and am sure Munir saab will never speak of any divergent voices and make himself look weak

It is a misperception that major decisions in Pakistani military establishment are made by the Army Chief alone. I tend to think of the Pakistani military a mini-version of the Chinese Communist party: Authoritarian but with internal discussions.

While Musharraf did launch the Kargil war almost alone, but Musharraf, after Kargil 1999, after Agra visit 2000, after 9/11, had concluded that even the Chenab Formula was not attainable for Pakistan and, with consultation with the military top-brass, had initiated the Musharraf-Manmohan dialogs. I believe they were roughly along the lines of LoC = IB but with some other give and take. Musharraf wanted to 'normalize' ties with India and concentrate on Pakistan's growth. He, along with ZAB, were the most hawkish anti-India leaders of Pakistan but he changed; there is a reason saner voices like Sashi Tharoor in India called him a 'man of peace' upon his death. There is a reason why at least one suicide attempt on Musharraf were done by people affiliated with the Kashmir cause.

Also, for peace to happen, it will be Pakistani military on one side and someone like Modi on the other side. Manmohan meant well but he couldn't 'sell' his peace plan to India. But he laid a 'framework' which needs to be built upon. More intractable problems in the world have been solved--especially in Europe than Kashmir issue.

 

[indushek]

It is a misperception that major decisions in Pakistani military establishment are made by the Army Chief alone. I tend to think of the Pakistani military a mini-version of the Chinese Communist party: Authoritarian but with internal discussions.

While Musharraf did launch the Kargil war almost alone, but Musharraf, after Kargil 1999, after Agra visit 2000, after 9/11, had concluded that even the Chenab Formula was not attainable for Pakistan and, with consultation with the military top-brass, had initiated the Musharraf-Manmohan dialogs. I believe they were roughly along the lines of LoC = IB but with some other give and take. Musharraf wanted to 'normalize' ties with India and concentrate on Pakistan's growth. He, along with ZAB, were the most hawkish anti-India leaders of Pakistan but he changed; there is a reason saner voices like Sashi Tharoor in India called him a 'man of peace' upon his death. There is a reason why at least one suicide attempt on Musharraf were done by people affiliated with the Kashmir cause.

Also, for peace to happen, it will be Pakistani military on one side and someone like Modi on the other side. Manmohan meant well but he couldn't 'sell' his peace plan to India. But he laid a 'framework' which needs to be built upon. More intractable problems in the world have been solved--especially in Europe than Kashmir issue.

Its possible what you wrote there above, and yeah LOC becoming IB can work well. That way both sides can look strong, and give other concessions behind closed doors perhaps.

Look am not disputing the need to have peace, its best for India to have that for at least three decades. We can focus more on developing economy, and China as well. I am just putting forward, some of the thinking on Indian side. Its for those in positions to take decisions, to get over these mistrusts.

Personally if there is anyone who can sell this, its Modi. The hawks won't say a word, and the Tharoor batch will only squirm in their seats and say yeah good good. We just have to see how this turns out, as the signals from Pakistan just started. Ms Khar's talk about resumption of trade, and then this kind of articles by ex Military.

Am sure the Americans and UAE have something to do with this, let us see how far this goes with their backing.

 

[Abu Shaleh Rumi]

Indian claim on Kashmir is ridiculous. Kashmir is a Muslim land hindus have no business there...

 

[Meengla]

Am sure the Americans and UAE have something to do with this, let us see how far this goes with their backing.

The biggest danger to India would be Pakistan is revived and goes totally in the Chinese camp. A militarily strong, economically vibrant, strong China-allied Pakistan would be very bad for India. Washington is not going to side with India too much but would, like it always has, use Pakistan to get 'concessions' from India. The latest IMF deal came with Washington's blessings--it shows America's strategic thinking about Pakistan.
Indians counting on disintegration and meltdown of Pakistan are being myopic. I am not saying YOU are one of those.

 

[indushek]

The biggest danger to India would be Pakistan is revived and goes totally in the Chinese camp. A militarily strong, economically vibrant, strong China-allied Pakistan would be very bad for India. Washington is not going to side with India too much but would, like it always has, use Pakistan to get 'concessions' from India. The latest IMF deal came with Washington's blessings--it shows America's strategic thinking about Pakistan.
Indians counting on disintegration and meltdown of Pakistan are being myopic. I am not saying YOU are one of those.

I don't think any sane mind in the Govt, will want a Pakistan that is disintegrating. Schadenfreude is a thing, and it exists on both sides (but its only civilians and not decision makers which is good).

Of course US will look for its interests, so it depends on our guys to navigate in a way, that our interests aren't in jeopardy.

On the Chinese part, agree again. However I feel Pakistan no longer has any choice, given its bilateral mistrust with West. Not at least military equipment wise, unless America has some plan for that too. Lot or most of the latest equipment Pakistan is getting, is of Chinese origin. So Pakistan will be dependent at least there, for coming decades on China.