Thunder In Paris

[Irfan Baloch]

French are jobless due to no contract from PAF
If they had sold us the missiles and avionics for thunder now they would have been eating duck liver , and red wine but , sadly they are in their homes, with no heat in winter and eating a loaf of bread , dunking it porridge

They could have been eating this .. stuff



Its all French gov's fault they said no to 24 billion HARD DOLLARS

Time for another revolution in france people stand up

lol you funny man.. I agree with your analysis but I am not sure about the 24 Billion dollars. The figures on the web range up to 1.2 Billion.
boy if it was even one tenth (2.4) of that then Sarkozy would have personally arranged for a date between his wife Carla Bruni & our Air Chief.
By the way if their Rafale wins the Indian MMRCA deal then they will be chuffed.

Re their decline to provide avionics etc for thunder had more to do with safeguarding their own industry and intellectual property. Indian protest was also there but it was the fear that their highly sensitive equipment might find its way in China for reverse engineering. Secondly JF 17 thunder is seen as a threat to their Mirage 2000 upgrade program in UAE.

 

[aks18]

lol you funny man.. I agree with your analysis but I am not sure about the 24 Billion dollars. The figures on the web range up to 1.2 Billion.
boy if it was even one tenth (2.4) of that then Sarkozy would have personally arranged for a date between his wife Carla Bruni & our Air Chief.
By the way if their Rafale wins the Indian MMRCA deal then they will be chuffed.

Re their decline to provide avionics etc for thunder had more to do with safeguarding their own industry and intellectual property. Indian protest was also there but it was the fear that their highly sensitive equipment might find its way in China for reverse engineering. Secondly JF 17 thunder is seen as a threat to their Mirage 2000 upgrade program in UAE.

he is talking about LNG deal

 

[Crypto]

well thanx any way windjammer but the thing is, we also heard about same kind of combination of aerial display and ground display for Farnborough air show 2010 and it turned out to be a ground display only.
* Turkey will reveal PAF's first F-16 AM/BM in the air show.

Another reason Thunder didn't perform aerial display was because of timing! China wanted it to debut its first aerial display at Zhuhai air show.
Thunder will perform in the next Farnborough as well.

 

[Windjammer]

yes sir I am currently working in UK (Berkshire) if you are planning to visit then I will book my leave now. We can discuss further via PM as the things progress.

Thanks for that dear and good to know you are here. Rather early for me to make any plans as yet since I already had to postpone travelling to Pakistan twice, as luck would have it, couldn't even make it to Farnborough. Anyways I'll PM you later. Damn, Wi Fi is playing up again.

My father was originally a gunner and later on served in air defence so whenever he took me to his battery deployment in the filed I used to notice the PAF radars and their operators. specially during the 80s in the tribal areas I still remember the air conditioned containers with the green radar screen and Siemens machinery. hence my fascination and love for the PAF.

Now that is interesting and we hardly get to know this side of the PAF. There is a topic to focus on.

 

[Dr.Danish]

Hats off for JF-17. Defiantly it has the potential to participate at any level of world.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Thanks for that dear and good to know you are here. Rather early for me to make any plans as yet since I already had to postpone travelling to Pakistan twice, as luck would have it, couldn't even make it to Farnborough. Anyways I'll PM you later. Damn, Wi Fi is playing up again.

is there any chance of passing the feed back to PAF before they participate in paris Airshow?
I went to the Farnborough air show and I cant describe my emotions. I was following my brother and my hands were trembling with emotions and excitement when I saw the tail with the crescent and started making movie as I walked towards it. I will just like

Re Farnborough air show, public days. The arrangements at the JF-17 stand left a lot to be desired. There were no information charts or signs that were there during the traders days. No pamphlets or copies were being sold at the stand too. The armament around the planes was not labelled.

It just looked a bit shabby to put it mildly. A very brief description of the plane on a small billboard next to the plane would have helped a lot because I saw a lot of confused expressions where people were making guesses.

If there was something to be kept a secret then I don’t think PAF would have bothered displaying it at all it just showed a lack of preparation.
In addition to “it’s a Pakistan- China plane and it is as good as F-16” if the crew would have given a bit of history along with what this plane can be used for and what it will replace in PAF.

Yes there were hardcore aeronautic enthusiasts who knew what they were looking for and were taking close up pictures of different parts of the plane but mostly the staff was either standing blank or was encircled by some Pakistanis who didn’t want to let anyone else near the pilots.

The PAF can do better if they have a billboard of Pak China flag with 4 or 5 bullet points about the history of the plane
Some booklets, pictures for sale at the stall
Some brief information and labelling of weapons with details that are public knowledge.
And finally the staff that is trained to free itself from possessive “enthusiasts” and can move around and reach out to wider audience.

I know its an exhausting day. But that’s the part of the game when you are at an exhibition and showing off your product to the world.

Finally I must say. That the airmen and the pilots were very pleasant, fresh and approachable its just that they were let down due to lack of few accessories and could do with better media presentation Or a civilian who is expert in that role could have been employed.

 

[SQ8]

is there any chance of passing the feed back to PAF before they participate in paris Airshow?
I went to the Farnborough air show and I cant describe my emotions. I was following my brother and my hands were trembling with emotions and excitement when I saw the tail with the crescent and started making movie as I walked towards it. I will just like

Re Farnborough air show, public days. The arrangements at the JF-17 stand left a lot to be desired. There were no information charts or signs that were there during the traders days. No pamphlets or copies were being sold at the stand too. The armament around the planes was not labelled.

It just locked a bit shabby to put it mildly. A very brief description of the plane on a small billboard next to the plane would have helped a lot because I saw a lot of confused expressions where people were making guesses.

If there was something to be kept a secret then I don’t think PAF would have bothered displaying it at all it just showed a lack of preparation.
In addition to “it’s a Pakistan- China plane and it is as good as F-16” if the crew would have given a bit of history along with what this plane can be used for and what it will replace in PAF.

Yes there were hardcore aeronautic enthusiasts who knew what they were looking for and were taking close up pictures of different parts of the plane but mostly the staff was either standing blank or was encircled by some Pakistanis who didn’t want to let anyone else near the pilots.

The PAF can do better if they have a billboard of Pak China flag with 4 or 5 bullet points about the history of the plane
Some booklets, pictures for sale at the stall
Some brief information and labelling of weapons with details that are public knowledge.
And finally the staff that is trained to free itself from possessive “enthusiasts” and can move around and reach out to wider audience.

I know its an exhausting day. But that’s the part of the game when you are at an exhibition and showing off your product to the world.

Finally I must say. That the airmen and the pilots were very pleasant, fresh and approachable its just that they were let down due to lack of few accessories and could do with better media presentation Or a civilian who is expert in that role could have been employed.

I think the last minute nature of the trip had more to do with the nature of your experience..
Perhaps.. zhuhai was a different altogether.

 

[Windjammer]

is there any chance of passing the feed back to PAF before they participate in paris Airshow?
I went to the Farnborough air show and I cant describe my emotions. I was following my brother and my hands were trembling with emotions and excitement when I saw the tail with the crescent and started making movie as I walked towards it. I will just like

Re Farnborough air show, public days. The arrangements at the JF-17 stand left a lot to be desired. There were no information charts or signs that were there during the traders days. No pamphlets or copies were being sold at the stand too. The armament around the planes was not labelled.

It just looked a bit shabby to put it mildly. A very brief description of the plane on a small billboard next to the plane would have helped a lot because I saw a lot of confused expressions where people were making guesses.

If there was something to be kept a secret then I don’t think PAF would have bothered displaying it at all it just showed a lack of preparation.
In addition to “it’s a Pakistan- China plane and it is as good as F-16” if the crew would have given a bit of history along with what this plane can be used for and what it will replace in PAF.

Yes there were hardcore aeronautic enthusiasts who knew what they were looking for and were taking close up pictures of different parts of the plane but mostly the staff was either standing blank or was encircled by some Pakistanis who didn’t want to let anyone else near the pilots.

The PAF can do better if they have a billboard of Pak China flag with 4 or 5 bullet points about the history of the plane
Some booklets, pictures for sale at the stall
Some brief information and labelling of weapons with details that are public knowledge.
And finally the staff that is trained to free itself from possessive “enthusiasts” and can move around and reach out to wider audience.

I know its an exhausting day. But that’s the part of the game when you are at an exhibition and showing off your product to the world.

Finally I must say. That the airmen and the pilots were very pleasant, fresh and approachable its just that they were let down due to lack of few accessories and could do with better media presentation Or a civilian who is expert in that role could have been employed.

Although I be surprised, if some one in the ISPR's office hasn't read your post but none the less, I'll indeed forward your healthy and beneficial remarks to the Air Directorate. As Santro said, it was more to do with the hap hazard arrangements, hence the Thunder never performed any flying display. Remember, for the Pakistan day fly past, the rehearsals start several weeks earlier, where as in Western countries, where the safety rules are more strict, it left little room for the presentation to be addressed properly.

 

[Pakchina]

Congrats to all my Pak brothers for this milestone. Unlike our rival's aircraft which has been made by the Israeli, US and EU, the thunder is a true indigeneous bird with only Chinese and Pakistanese technologies. Our rival has to rely on the Israeli, US and the EU to procure aircraft and other WMD. Our rival is a fake superpower promoted by the US in view of countering the growing economic and military influence of China. Our rival, is a country which cannot even give a decent living, employment, health care, education and sanitation to its own citizens but our rival is investing billions of dollars in WMD from the US and Israeli, its a shame. Bollywood and Ambani are mirage. In view of countering China the US is selling its soul to the devil. We are awaiting the US proposal to sell the F 22 to our rival.

 

[Beast]

Congrats to all my Pak brothers for this milestone. Unlike our rival's aircraft which has been made by the Israeli, US and EU, the thunder is a true indigeneous bird with only Chinese and Pakistanese technologies. Our rival has to rely on the Israeli, US and the EU to procure aircraft and other WMD. Our rival is a fake superpower promoted by the US in view of countering the growing economic and military influence of China. Our rival, is a country which cannot even give a decent living, employment, health care, education and sanitation to its own citizens but our rival is investing billions of dollars in WMD from the US and Israeli, its a shame. Bollywood and Ambani are mirage. In view of countering China the US is selling its soul to the devil. We are awaiting the US proposal to sell the F 22 to our rival.

Agree.. While Thunder can be promote freely and ready to be exported with WS-13. LCA exporting will heavily depend on USA approval.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Agree.. While Thunder can be promote freely and ready to be exported with WS-13. LCA exporting will heavily depend on USA approval.

I don’t think LCA has ever been touted as an export product, like JF-17 has been. secondly lets stay on JF-17 only and not making this thread as Vs LCA too. even if the urge is very compelling I request that it is done professionally so that a flame war doesn’t start.
Beast, your post was good but Pakchina used the tone against Indians which was without provocation and was best avoided.

coming back to JF-17 export potential. there are many possible hurdles specially selling it to African countries that are under European weapons embargo (e.g. Zimbabwe) in case it uses any Western avionics. But our first aim is replace our aging fleets with this plane and it will take a while before it can be free for external market. By then it would have matured enough that we will be in a better position to offer it to customers in Asia and Africa.
Currently it should be replacing our A5s and F-7s like India is planning to replace its Mig21s with LCA.. so just because in next 2 or 3 years there is no material deal signed with any potential customer then it wont mean the project has failed because its main customer is going to be PAF and Pakistan Navy to replace its anti Ship Mirage squadrons.