Three Pakistan Navy ships

[EagleEyes]

Three Pakistan Navy ships, submarine due on Tuesday

By A Staff Reporter

MUSCAT — Three Pakistan Navy ships — Gwadar, Jalalat, Rajshahi and a submarine Hurmat will be paying a goodwill-cum-training visit to the Sultanate from January 31. Commodore Naveed Ahmed SI(M) will be the mission commander, says a press release issued by Pakistan Embassy.

Realising the importance of self-reliance, Pakistan Navy stepped into the indigenous construction of seaborne craft such as submarines, small auxiliaries, mine hunters and missile craft. The project of Jalalat class missile craft, being part of the same campaign, was launched in 1995. The first missile craft was named PNS Jalalat (meaning ‘Grandiose’). This craft is equipped with modern sensors and weapon systems. They can be employed in a variety of roles like interdicting enemy ships at long ranges, patrolling, providing air defence to HVUs and ships, ESM support, picket/goalkeeper duties and SAR.

PNS Jalalat is equipped with latest radar and missiles with the dedicated efforts of PN Dockyard. Commander Muhammed Shuaib, PN, commands the missile boat. He is specialised in signal communication, operations, anti-submarine warfare. He has served as instructor at Pakistan Naval Academy/Underwater Warfare School, served at UAE Naval College, Abu Dhabi, and officer in-charge Maritime Base, Gwadar. He is fellow of the PAF Air War College Karachi and holds a master’s degree in Strategic Studies.

‘Hurmat’ means sanctity of the nation. Pakistan Navy submarine Hurmat, an Agosta-class submarine, was commissioned in Pakistan Navy on February 18, 1980. This submarine was constructed at Nantes, France, by Dubigeon Normandie. The submarine is usually deployed in anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare. Reconnaissance and intelligence gathering are the usual peacetime developments. It can be deployed in defence and power projection roles. It can bar straits, shallow waters or choke point of passage where it can provide the early warning or exercise attrition. To accomplish this task this submarine is equipped with state-of-the-art sensors and armed with potent missiles and torpedoes. Commander Ilyas-ur Rehman Bhatti TI(M) PN, commands the submarine. He is an underwater and anti-submarine warfare specialist. He did his ASM course from France and Submarine Fire Control Coordinator Course from Turkey. He is also a graduate of Pakistan Navy Staff College.

PNS Gwadar is the first indigenous ship of PN fleet built by Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works. The ship was named after the coastal city of Gwadar, situated on the western side of the Pakistani coast. She was commissioned in 1984, primarily as a harbour tanker to supply fuel and fresh water to small craft. Later on, taking advantage of less freeboard and availability of crane onboard, the ship was found suitable to undertake variety of tasks such as ‘torpedo recovery vessel during torpedo firing exercise’ (TFX), logistic support to coastal bases, ferry personnel to and from coastal bases, provide a platform during salvage operations, attendant vessel during X-craft trials and target towing vessel for surface practice firing by the fleet units.

PNS Gwadar performed all task efficiently at high seas. Commander Mohammed Tahir PN commands the ship. He is specialised in Above Water Warfare and is a graduate from Pakistan Navy War College, Lahore. He has served as navigation officer of destroyer squadron, above water warfare officer onboard Type-21, squadron and staff officer at naval headquarters/FOST HQs.

Historical ship Rajshahi was built at Lowesoft in the UK in 1965. She was commissioned in 1966 at Chittagong naval base. Primarily, the ship was deployed to carry out anti-smuggling and relief work operation inland waters, use for sea-training of the cadets of Pakistan Naval Academy and participating extensively in operational activities of the fleet.

Lt-Commander Manzoor Mehdi PN commands PNS Rajshahi. He has qualified from School of Infantry and Tactics, Quetta. He has served in different PN units and staff officer at Bahria Foundation.

http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp...=25012&pn=local

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Pakistan already have a capablity to create ships, it just needs more strong system to improve over all capability as far as navigation, communication, and detection capability goes.

 

[Sid]

There's a difference between having the capability to manufacture missile boats, auxillaries, midget subs and the capability to manufacture state-of-the-art 'frigates','destroyers' and 'modern subs'.

PN currently cannot even stand up to the IN more than a week I would say. Their surface combatant fleet is 80s vintage as well as a major part of its submarine force. The Agosta-90Bs have somewhat improved the situation but they are only THREE of them. Chinese F-22P frigates would take time to be constructed and delievered to the PN but they are still small (only 2500 ton displacement) as compared to IN's frigates which easily displace up to 5000 tons.

Now the IN has ordered Scorpene subs from France which are already under contruction.

Recent reports suggest that DCN has offered to build a completely new sub for the PN as per its requirements to counter Scorpenes but the proposal is still in its infancy stage with a lot of political opposition in France due to Indian pressue.

PN also needs to procure more formiddable frigates to counter increasing IN presence in the Indian Ocean.

 

[Bull]

everyone has been crying out loud for the need to improve the defence procurement.

Where is the money?That answers what pakistan should do right now,which is more important than buying new arms/ships or planes.

Thats improve the economy of your country,bring in control your finances and then you can go shoppping.
there was along lean period for indian forces also tillmid 90swhen nothing was procurred,and once the economy started improving and we had more money we ent out buying what we have now.

So take step by step,

 

[Sid]

Finances are there, just like they are there for the PAF; which is why all this is happening. The induction of missile boats, design work on new sub, etc. What we ought to do is use those finances more efficiently and on effective systems.

Given your chain of thought, I think then all Pakistani defense forums should wrap up and call it a day; and should only come back to life when Pakistan's economic and political situation becomes stable while finances get stacked up for use. Given the current circumstances, I highly doubt such a day would ever arrive.

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by Sid+Feb 26 2006, 09:51 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sid &#064; Feb 26 2006, 09:51 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Finances are there, just like they are there for the PAF; which is why all this is happening. The induction of missile boats, design work on new sub, etc. What we ought to do is use those finances more efficiently and on effective systems. [/b]

is that reason why Mushraff decided to go slow on F 16 the moment a quake struck Azad Kashmir .

pakistan doesnt have the money to meets its defence requirement.And thats been accepted by almost all members out here.

Originally posted by Sid@Feb 26 2006, 09:51 PM
Given your chain of thought, I think then all Pakistani defense forums should wrap up and call it a day;

Whats the relationship between a discussion forum and arms procurement.

<!--QuoteBegin-Sid@Feb 26 2006, 09:51 PM
and should only come back to life when Pakistan&#39;s economic and political situation becomes stable while finances get stacked up for use. Given the current circumstances, I highly doubt such a day would ever arrive.

[post=6281]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]

So here again u r admitting that paksitans finances are not yet stacked up for purchases.

 

[Sid]

Musharraf decided to go slow on F-16s because of political repurcussions, not because of finances. His political standing would&#39;ve taken a bad hit if he had continued with the purchasing. &#036;5b has already been earmarked for the PAF&#39;s modernization.

When I talked about &#39;finances are there&#39; I meant, the state isn&#39;t bankcurpt and if it becomes imperative to modernize our forces, the parliament would release funds from the public treasury to assure that combat effectiveness and minimum deterrence is maintained.

And in the last paragraph, the very starting of it says, &#39;given YOUR chain of thought&#39; meaning I was taking your thoughts and applying them (thoughts that finances are really not there) to the equation.

So the thing is that, its not that there aren&#39;t any finances available. Its about using them properly and effectively. Pakistan realises that currently (with the on-going peace-talks with India) there is less &#39;urgency&#39; of modernization of our forces at a rapid pace, that is why less resources are being directed towards the armed forces while more are being directed towards health and education which is good.

Anyways, lets get back to discussing Naval issues as this thread is about PN not PAF.

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by Sid@Feb 28 2006, 02:29 AM
Musharraf decided to go slow on F-16s because of political repurcussions, not because of finances. His political standing would&#39;ve taken a bad hit if he had continued with the purchasing. &#036;5b has already been earmarked for the PAF&#39;s modernization.

When I talked about &#39;finances are there&#39; I meant, the state isn&#39;t bankcurpt and if it becomes imperative to modernize our forces, the parliament would release funds from the public treasury to assure that combat effectiveness and minimum deterrence is maintained.

[post=6338]Quoted post[/post]​

Sid, i wudnt buy this arguement.

What kind of political repurcassion are you referring to?
Pakistan wasnt able to cope with the rescue and reconstruction of Azad Kashmir,and was depending on foreign aid to do so,at this moment of time they didnt want pakistan to spend money on F 16.So F 16 was postponed to meet those requirements.

I dont think so any country which was financially sound wouldnt have had to do it.
As mostofthe pakistani friends say,pakistan is the land of rich with a poor govt.

Peace talks wih India is still in its nascent stage,and when India is buying so heavily how can pakistan depend on this fragile peace and decide to go slow on defence purchases.

 

[Sid]

I&#39;m not even forcing you to buy it. I&#39;m just telling you what is the case in reality. You seriously think the Pakistani establishment took money out of PAF&#39;s pouch for reconstruction in AJK. Not really, NO. If money had been taken out of PAF&#39;s pouch, just six months on, PAF wouldn&#39;t be back on table with order for the F-16s.

Yes it was purely a political decision because Musharraf is having hard time these days against the opposition alliance and there&#39;s the Balochistan trouble as well. He cannot risk another situation in which his popularity takes the heaviest blow.

The other thing people must understand is that &#036;5 billion for the combat AC for PAF wouldn&#39;t be paid as a one-time lump-sum payment or that reconstruction of AJK would be paid for in one single payment. Its about paying at regular intervals over a number of years in either case. So money isn&#39;t really getting tied up anywhere. And money is certainly not the most important issue why that decision was taken.

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by Sid@Feb 28 2006, 10:55 AM
I&#39;m not even forcing you to buy it. I&#39;m just telling you what is the case in reality. You seriously think the Pakistani establishment took money out of PAF&#39;s pouch for reconstruction in AJK. Not really, NO. If money had been taken out of PAF&#39;s pouch, just six months on, PAF wouldn&#39;t be back on table with order for the F-16s.

Yes it was purely a political decision because Musharraf is having hard time these days against the opposition alliance and there&#39;s the Balochistan trouble as well. He cannot risk another situation in which his popularity takes the heaviest blow.

The other thing people must understand is that &#036;5 billion for the combat AC for PAF wouldn&#39;t be paid as a one-time lump-sum payment or that reconstruction of AJK would be paid for in one single payment. Its about paying at regular intervals over a number of years in either case. So money isn&#39;t really getting tied up anywhere. And money is certainly not the most important issue why that decision was taken.

[post=6374]Quoted post[/post]​

so then is peace with india the only reason why there are not much hardwares been bought?

 

[Spring Onion]

i think the deferment of F-16s had nothing to do with the popularity of Musharraf not he was afraid of decline in his political activities. You guys are ignoring one thing almost all the payment had been made to the US for the jets so there was no question of divertign that money towards earthquake affecteced areas.
but yes there is another dimension to the delaying of the F-16s and that is the high propoganda by our next door neighbour and some western countries and media that out of their bias against pakistan blew the deal out of porpotion. there was very malisious propoganda at that time when the deadly Quake hit our country.
the indian media as well as some of the other countries was constanlty projecting it negatively terming the deal highly insensitive in tbe wake of quake.
go to news stories and u will find that they were crticising the Pak govt for the deal and every western journalist as well as of out neighboours used to Question Musharraf and other officials that why they were spending on F-16s instead of helping the quake victims.
there was a systematic propoganda just to spoil the deal and this was used for maligning Pakistan and influancing the world not to pledge money for the quake affectees as pakisan itself was not sparing money for them.

so it was the same reason just to help the victims that Musharraf decided to delay the deal and thuse shutting the mouths of those who were using it just for adding probels for the poor quake victims.

 

[Bull]

so u mean Indian and western media can influence mushraffs and GOps decision.

 

[Sid]

Jana: Payment had been made to the US? Please provide proof of this claim as to my knowledge, there has been NO payment on the forth-coming F-16 deal.

Musharraf was not scared or anything but if he has to remain in power and enjoy public support; he had to defer the F-16 deal. The Indian and/or Western media, however biased they may be, they certainly started hitting him right where it hurt his political image and he had to defer the deal anyways, even if they hadn&#39;t reported biased news articles (they just make him hasten a little bit).

I still do not know &#39;why&#39; you fellaz don&#39;t get it.

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by Sid@Mar 1 2006, 10:12 AM
Jana: Payment had been made to the US? Please provide proof of this claim as to my knowledge, there has been NO payment on the forth-coming F-16 deal.

Musharraf was not scared or anything but if he has to remain in power and enjoy public support; he had to defer the F-16 deal. The Indian and/or Western media, however biased they may be, they certainly started hitting him right where it hurt his political image and he had to defer the deal anyways, even if they hadn&#39;t reported biased news articles (they just make him hasten a little bit).

I still do not know &#39;why&#39; you fellaz don&#39;t get it.

[post=6428]Quoted post[/post]​

i understood, as sheriff was accussed of bowing to press ure and asking the PA to withdraw from kargil,the same foreign media has created a furore that forced mushraff in delaying the deal.

but whatever said and done, f 16 is coming to pak.

 

[Spring Onion]

Originally posted by Prashant@Mar 1 2006, 11:36 AM
but whatever said and done, f 16 is coming to pak.

[post=6440]Quoted post[/post]​

thts the best and great thing to be happend and now u can understand no pressure can change our decisions as well as GOP&#39;s