'This is cruelty': Survivors of Indian Army shelling on passenger bus recall frightening encounter

[chandrak]

If as u say that the majority wants to stay with India then why not hold a plebiscite?
Worst case for Pak - lose Kashmir(goes to India)
Worst case for India - lose Kashmir(goes to Pak)

Result - ppl of Kashmir happy
Overtime no more tension between India, Pak, and most likely China too.

Long term result...closer ties(along the lines of NATO/EU) between India/Pak/China/Russia. That's most of Asia, three major economies, huge population, 4 nuclear powers. Such a powerful alliance would definitely pull in some other countries. Even with just us 4 imagine what we could achieve together. We would have a powerful voice in the world. No amount of sanctions would be effective. No threat big enough to challenge us. All it takes is some compromise on some petty piece of land. Imagine the payout. Borders might become meaningless in that scenario in the long run anyways. All it takes is for us to set aside our ego for a bigger goal.

I doubt any of this would ever happen. It's just my idealistic rants. Most likely the ppl of this subcontinent will keep fighting each other. U r right let's end this debate bcuz it probably won't go anywhere.


I didn't insult our forefathers nor did I mention their religion nor whether they held the one nation or two nation view. I merely pointed out that it's a matter of perspective. As for the freedom struggle taking a violent turn, come on mate r u that naive? Look at the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the IRA of Ireland, etc. The list is long. The IRA members were terrorists from the British perspective but freedom fighters from the Irish perspective.

As for u mentioning ppl asking for freedom in Lahore. Yes keeping consistent with my point of view, if the majority of the ppl ask for independence and I could grant them that, I would. It's better than killing them. Take England for example, there was recently a lot of buzz of a possible Scotish secession. U see how it's done in civilized countries. They held a referendum where Scotish ppl voted Yes or No. Had it succeeded, Scotland would've been a free country. U r getting angry at me for simply pointing out things that have been done quite successfully elsewhere. Don't let ur nationalism get in the way mate. I'm not saying it simply bcuz u r Indian and Im Pakistani. I would stand by what I said even in the scenario that a plebiscite is held and Kashmiris choose India. I would support that decision just as much.

Well i am not against the plebicite- but why for half of j&k? Y not full j&k (ur occupied part included-i cant write the name as its changing automatically).? Still the UN norms are pending there ..where its mentioned before plebicite pak army will have to evecuate j&k land. And then only plebicite will be there..so who is against the plebicite

Russ/india/china/pak is a good axis but only when these long pending matters will be solved..

And i think i mentioned it clearly that a district of a state demanding freedom,means suppose 1 lakh people of that district demands freedom out of 50lakhs population of total state..so what then? In district they are in majority but from state level they are minors will u give them freedom??

 

[Cookie Monster]

Well i am not against the plebicite- but why for half of j&k? Y not full j&k (ur occupied part included-i cant write the name as its changing automatically).? Still the UN norms are pending there ..where its mentioned before plebicite pak army will have to evecuate j&k land. And then only plebicite will be there..so who is against the plebicite

Russ/india/china/pak is a good axis but only when these long pending matters will be solved..

And i think i mentioned it clearly that a district of a state demanding freedom,means suppose 1 lakh people of that district demands freedom out of 50lakhs population of total state..so what then? In district they are in majority but from state level they are minors will u give them freedom??

I agree to Pak part of Kashmir's plebiscite too. I think this whole time u have been misunderstanding me. I care for the well being of humans in general regardless of race/ethnicity/religion/etc. I have spent quite a lot of time travelling, I was born and raised in Pakistan and I have been living in the US for quite a while now. I have come across ppl from all kinds of backgrounds/religions/nationalities/races. The one thing u start to realize is that we r all not that different no matter where we come from. An average man has all the same struggles, the same joys and the same pain. I have friends from all these different backgrounds too. Many of them Indian. So overtime I have started to see things less and less with a self serving lens. Instead we should strive to do what's best for humanity collectively. I'm going on one of my idealistic rants again.

As for the majority of a district of Ladakh choosing India for example while the majority of Ladakh as a whole chooses Pak or Independence, the decision should be taken based on what the majority of the population of Ladakh decided. That one district would be ignored bcuz in a democracy majority wins.

 

[chandrak]

I agree to Pak part of Kashmir's plebiscite too. I think this whole time u have been misunderstanding me. I care for the well being of humans in general regardless of race/ethnicity/religion/etc. I have spent quite a lot of time travelling, I was born and raised in Pakistan and I have been living in the US for quite a while now. I have come across ppl from all kinds of backgrounds/religions/nationalities/races. The one thing u start to realize is that we r all not that different no matter where we come from. An average man has all the same struggles, the same joys and the same pain. I have friends from all these different backgrounds too. Many of them Indian. So overtime I have started to see things less and less with a self serving lens. Instead we should strive to do what's best for humanity collectively. I'm going on one of my idealistic rants again.

As for the majority of a district of Ladakh choosing India for example while the majority of Ladakh as a whole chooses Pak or Independence, the decision should be taken based on what the majority of the population of Ladakh decided. That one district would be ignored bcuz in a democracy majority wins.

Then there is nothing left to duscuss
See that was my point ,u take decision on the basis of majority of people of that area..otherwise u crush them..sometimes rulers has had to pretend tough to check these rats..so casualities wil be there..so that other people of that area can live in peace..by the way it was a nice discussion.. thanks

 

[Cookie Monster]

Then there is nothing left to duscuss
See that was my point ,u take decision on the basis of majority of people of that area..otherwise u crush them..sometimes rulers has had to pretend tough to check these rats..so casualities wil be there..so that other people of that area can live in peace..by the way it was a nice discussion.. thanks

I understand what u r saying...the only thing I don't get is how do u assume that the majority doesn't want freedom or to join Pakistan or India? A plebiscite was never held. This is why throughout my discussion I never assumed the will of the ppl of Kashmir. The only way to be sure is hold a plebiscite otherwise it's just speculation.

 

[hell9214]

[Q"Hareeb, post: 8946273, member: 180776"]Muslims use word "Allah" instead of Bhagwan, and check his accent, he must be a behari or rajistani.[/QUOTE]

Bihari nd Rajasthan people r not speak like that nd even ur media accept that he was frm Pakistan bt still ur in dream pls wake up

 

[Suff Shikan]

There is no difference b/w indian army and animals

 

[cmpk]

I'm a Kashmiri, and there are millions like me living here in Pakistan, heck even our PM is a Kashmiri (although i hate that corrupt thug). & guess what? we've integrated well, thanks to the decision our grandparents took during partition in 1947. This is the precise reason why we want rest of Kashmir to join us, & the precise reason why they want to join with Pakistan.

What about India? how many of the oppressed Kashmiri's have ever been at a top position in India? NONE. They've been tortured & killed instead. 2 Air chiefs of PAF in last decade or so have been Kashmiri's! & one of them was Shaheed Mushaf Mir.

If you guys are really that peace loving, then let UN enter IoK, let international media enter that region, nobody gives a crap about your third grade media or India army Gen who spew nothing but hatred & lies.

 

[T-72]

I'm a Kashmiri

but you don't speak the language and are more at home conversing in Punjabi, yes ?

 

[cmpk]

but you don't speak the language and are more at home conversing in Punjabi, yes ?

Pretty dumb logic. why? let me give you one example: There are so many Asians living in UK, have they disassociated themselves from their home country just because of the fact that they can't speak their mother tongue? NO. in fact i see more patriotism among those expats.

Indians will always dodge this question, & the fact why UN isn't allowed in IoK. lol

 

[T-72]

Pretty dumb logic. why? let me give you one example: There are so many Asians living in UK, have they disassociated themselves from their home country just because of the fact that they can't speak their mother tongue? NO. in fact i see more patriotism among those expats.

Indians will always dodge this question, & the fact why UN isn't allowed in IoK. lol

there is no Kashmiri culture in Pakistan, "azad" Kashmir is north Pakistani Punjab.

 

[Zibago]

there is no Kashmiri culture in Pakistan, "azad" Kashmir is north Pakistani Punjab.

Was your previous id name Barrel-Bomba

 

[Apprentice]

there is no Kashmiri culture in Pakistan, "azad" Kashmir is north Pakistani Punjab.

Yes Azad Kashmir is non-Kashmiri. There is however a large ethnic Kashmiri community which lives in Punjab. Our ancestors migrated during Dogra rule. We may no longer speak Kashmiri but we are still ethnically Kashmiri. Blood does not change (unless you mix with someone else and produce a mixed child).

 

[jahangeer yousaf]

I am kashmiri but living in Lahore since ages. Our ancestors moved from Kashmir to Lahore but it does not mean i ain`t kashmiri anymore ..

 

[Apprentice]

I am kashmiri but living in Lahore since ages. Our ancestors moved from Kashmir to Lahore but it does not mean i ain`t kashmiri anymore ..

Unfortunately most of us Kashmiris living in Punjab have been shamefully neglectful of our ancestral culture and true ethnic identity. Most real Kashmiris in Pakistan have the nerve to call themselves 'Punjabi'. Whilst Mirpuris steal our ethnic identity and the Punjabis of Azad Kashmir call themselves 'Kashmiri'. What a joke.

 

[unbiasedopinion]

A Military with Highest Suicide rate, Highest Rape rate, conduct false flag Ops, deliberately hit Civilian transport & ambulances and kill youth by shooting pallet on their faces deserve to be called most ''non professional'' Military Force in World comprising of low life serial killers.......

There is one Hindu state in World. And we are extremely unfortunate to have it as our neighbor. Poor us .........

Last I remember, Pakistan has no shared boundary with Nepal.

Neither Afghanistan and India are Hindu state, so is Iran.

Yes it is unfortunate you are surrounded in your west by two muslim populated countries with none of them you are in good terms. Thus indicating who is creating trouble in the region.