‘They killed our mates, we want vengeance’

[notorious_eagle]

Nobody wants more loss of life but you guys crossed the limits with the beheading.

Show me a single source of evidence that beheading took place. I don't know what more Pakistan can do, they have offered a 3rd party investigation but that has been rejected by India. Beheading is a very serious accusation, even international news outlet such as BBC are backtracking now and using the words "Alleged" when describing the beheading. So far i have heard 5 different versions coming out of the Indian media, the chain of events described in the media make it impossible for a beheading to take place. So far as a reader, i am not convinced any beheading took place looking at the material that is infront of me.

Let me tell you this - we are both patriotic nations. It is easy for you to convince 160 million of your people to gulp down their ego and move forward with life. How do you expect us to do the same with 1.2 billion people ? You are a small country with smaller army, learn to move forward in the same way as we learned to move forward against the bigger Chinese. We are the not only ones afraid of escalations but at the same time if required we will move in.

If escalations do take place, i can assure you Pakistan Army is an entity that will not back off from a fight. Countless soldiers on both sides will end up loosing their lives and families will end up loosing their bread winners just for the sake of ego and not any material gain. One only needs to visit the LOC to realize, killing the enemy is not hard but making any material gain is. I have been to the LOC, blasting a check post or observation point is not difficult, it is occupying it which is the real challenge. Both sides have enough fire power to kill hundreds of soldiers in a matter of minutes, but what exactly will that gain?

 

[Markus]

Something does count, orders (or lack of them) from the civilian govt. Like it or not, whether to go on an all out war is up to us civilians to choose. If the govt decides that the life of two jawans is valuable enough to go for an all out war, then war it will be.

You mean pakistani army listens to its govt.?

And secondly, this is nothing new, these beheadings have happened in the past, and things come back to normal after some time. What you dont seem to understand is that these skirmishes will last for ever and there is going to be no end of it.

But I don't see the govt making such a decision, do you? So the army will have to take revenge without escalating things, but in a manner befitting the gruesome act. Trust them to do it.

Even if the govt. gives the permission it will not accept in public. And as history tells us, Indian army has hit back hard when the time comes. So yes, I do see an Indian counter attack, but not immediately. It will happen when things cool down a bit and India is able to get the element of surprise.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

Enough of Talk ..Move Artillery battalion towards LOC ....Activate SFC for Prithvi and Agni .....

Keep Sukhoi Mki Squadron or 2 Ready

Let get this party Started

its not that i love War...but Pakistan Need to b told There is Price of Everything you do....We have Let them off the hook Easily After 1971 many times..........Time to again bring out the policy "Cut them to Size".........You don't do the crime if u Can't do the Time

Lets not play into their hands, they will expect it.

The fuel is in Pak, only a matchstick is needed.....I believe we are already doing that.

 

[Markus]

Show me a single source of evidence that beheading took place. I don't know what more Pakistan can do, they have offered a 3rd party investigation but that has been rejected by India. Beheading is a very serious accusation, even international news outlet such as BBC are backtracking now and using the words "Alleged" when describing the beheading. So far i have heard 5 different versions coming out of the Indian media, the chain of events described in the media make it impossible for a beheading to take place. So far as a reader, i am not convinced any beheading took place looking at the material that is infront of me.

This topic has seen a debate of 250 or more pages across diff. threads and you are asking me for proof of the beheading. Please sir, I request you to go through the thread, I really don't have the energy to start this all over again.

If escalations do take place, i can assure you Pakistan Army is an entity that will not back off from a fight. Countless soldiers on both sides will end up loosing their lives and families will end up loosing their bread winners just for the sake of ego and not any material gain. One only needs to visit the LOC to realize, killing the enemy is not hard but making any material gain is. I have been to the LOC, blasting a check post or observation point is not difficult, it is occupying it which is the real challenge. Both sides have enough fire power to kill hundreds of soldiers in a matter of minutes, but what exactly will that gain?

When our govt. and army are ready for the sacrifices and they decide it to take it to the logical end, nothing else really matters. I know blood will flow but there seems to be no other option.

 

[KS]

According to Shiv Aroor the two units that fired yesterday were the 13 Raj rif and 1 Maratha LI

 

[Windjammer]

Originally Posted by janon
Revenge is a dish best served cold. It will be done at a time and place of RajRif's choosing. There will be no beheading or other such unprofessional conduct. The last time pak soldiers beheaded a jawan of the IA, we know what happened later. The entire platoon, including mid ranking officers was killed by special forces in a counter op a long time later, after careful planning. There will be blood.

And here is the relevant article from 'The Hindu'.

The Hindu : News / National : Indian, Pakistani Commanders to meet in bid to end bloody LoC skirmishesHighly placed military sources told The Hindu that the fighting began after two Indian soldiers were beheaded in an attack on a forward position by a jihadist unit. Indian special forces responded by targeting a Pakistani forward post, killing several soldiers. Intermittent clashes continued through the year, into December.





Hope the wait was worth it.

First read the tall claims made in your post and compare it with what was blatantly claimed according to the so called highly placed sources. May i also remind you the same highly placed sources said that they were not aware of any beheading in the current scenario........ but hey, whatever grows hair on your chest.

 

[third eye]

Enough of Talk ..Move Artillery battalion towards LOC ....Activate SFC for Prithvi and Agni .....

Keep Sukhoi Mki Squadron or 2 Ready

Let get this party Started

its not that i love War...but Pakistan Need to b told There is Price of Everything you do....We have Let them off the hook Easily After 1971 many times..........Time to again bring out the policy "Cut them to Size".........You don't do the crime if u Can't do the Time

Just for the record ..

Artillery Regiments (not batallions) are there always on the LOC

Prithvi & Agni are always ready

Sukhoi's are always in a state of readiness.

This has nothing to do with the current aggravation on the LC but thats how both armies keep themselves on the starting blocks.

Now, should we start the war and undo all thats been patiently & painstakingly created over the last decade or so ?

Going to war is not like a trip to the favorite Mall.

 

[notorious_eagle]

This topic has seen a debate of 250 or more pages across diff. threads and you are asking me for proof of the beheading. Please sir, I request you to go through the thread, I really don't have the energy to start this all over again.

I have gone over all that thread and participated in it, didn't found a single piece of evidence, only accusations. But you are right, its off topic so not worth discussing here.

When our govt. and army are ready for the sacrifices and they decide it to take it to the logical end, nothing else really matters. I know blood will flow but there seems to be no other option.

Well than so be it, if the GOI and IA General Staff has decided to accept further blood, there is not much we can do about it. The only thing i can do is pray for the families of those who will loose their loved ones.

Good Day

 

[Markus]

I have gone over all that thread and participated in it, didn't found a single piece of evidence, only accusations. But you are right, its off topic so not worth discussing here.

There are a gazillion links, if you can't find one, well nothing much I can do, can't cure your eyes or brain, I am not a doctor, sorry!

Well than so be it, if the GOI and IA General Staff has decided to accept further blood, there is not much we can do about it. The only thing i can do is pray for the families of those who will loose their loved ones.

Accept and INFLICT.

Good Day

Good Day to you as well.

 

[Babbar-Khalsa]

Its the life of the unit commander which is tough now. He has to balance the feelings and anger of his troops with the orders of his superiors who themselves get their order from politcos and make sure both of them are satisified,

The anger is very much there indeed . Only an excellent commander would be able to handle this.

There are a gazillion links, if you can't find one, well nothing much I can do, can't cure your eyes or brain, I am not a doctor, sorry!



Accept and INFLICT.



Good Day to you as well.

Well said Markus .....but i also believe that Mr @notorious_eagle is a wise man who does honest debates . He is a sober one.

 

[arp2041]

If escalations do take place, i can assure you Pakistan Army is an entity that will not back off from a fight. Countless soldiers on both sides will end up loosing their lives and families will end up loosing their bread winners just for the sake of ego and not any material gain. One only needs to visit the LOC to realize, killing the enemy is not hard but making any material gain is. I have been to the LOC, blasting a check post or observation point is not difficult, it is occupying it which is the real challenge. Both sides have enough fire power to kill hundreds of soldiers in a matter of minutes, but what exactly will that gain?

Agreed sir, but certain incidents are challenging the very sanity or insanity of talking peace with Pakistan. We have faced 20 years of insurgency in Kashmir sponsored by Pakistan, our PM went to Lahore to talk peace in 1999 & we were greeted by Kargil in return, again our PM invited Gen Musharaf for Agra talks & our symbol of Democracy - Indian Parliament was attacked in return, we din't do anything when our 160+ innocent people died from a commando style terrorist attack even when there were ample proof of Pakistani involvement, not just these but no. of other terrorist attacks get connected to Pakistan & we do nothing & talk Peace, Cricket & Diplomacy. If these attacks & 4th generation warfare continues & we do nothing than soon the world will tag us with the title of an impotent nation. They will ask as what is the advantage of having world's 3rd largest army, 4th largest AF, 5th largest navy & being world's largest importer of arms when India can't do anything about these terrorist attacks which are a sort of open challenge to India that says - "we will kill u like this, let's see what u can do".

 

[Armstrong]

@notorious_eagle : Dude whats the latest ?

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Tempers are running high among soldiers deployed along the LoC in Rajouri and Poonch, where Pakistan soldiers brutally murdered two Indian army personnel on January 8. They want the political leadership to take an immediate decision, allowing them to seek revenge through an all-out offensive.

"We are also capable to doing what they have done. But, being a disciplined force, our hands are tied. The political establishment, however, should understand our sensibilities after this ghastly and inhuman incident. They should allow us to take revenge," said sepoy Jasbir, deployed along the LoC in Rajouri's Nowshera sector.

The soldiers feel that the Centre is going soft on the issue despite repeated provocations by Pakistan, which has resulted in many a casualty to the army.

"Pakistan is continuously violating the ceasefire, and we are only reacting to them. I fail to understand why the government is soft-peddling on the issue. It is becoming intolerable, they must give us the green signal for all out-offensive," said Raj Singh, deployed in Krishna Ghati sector of Poonch.

The soldiers want a repeat of a February 2000 offensive, which was launched after a group led by Illayas Kashmir —a Pakistani soldier-turned-terrorist — intruded into Nowshera sector of Rajouri and beheaded a jawan of the Mahar regiment. Back then, the army had retaliated by crossing the border and causing similar casualties to the Pakistan army.
“If we could take retaliatory action 12 years ago, what is holding us back now? Something must be done to respect our anger and feelings. We can't take things lying down,” another sepoy said.

While senior army officials can understand the sentiments of the jawans, they do not want to act in a brash manner. "We know how they feel. It will not go unanswered, and we will take action. I can't say when it will be done, but it will surely happen," said a senior army official posted in Poonch.

(The names of the soldiers have been changed to protect their identities.)

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/JAndK/They-killed-our-mates-we-want-vengeance/Article1-987991.aspx



That Ilyas Kashmiri was a former SSG commando, who was rewarded by Musharaff personally for the beheading of an Indian Jawan. Later he turned his guns on the Pakistani state (as most of their strategic assets tend to do), played a role in some of the most audacious attacks against the pak security establishment, and ended up dead in a US drone strike. As usual, yet another of their former assets who had to be taken down by a friendly drone.

I had a good laugh when this report showed 'murder' of indian soldiers

But it fails to say that they first intruded into our land then killed our soldier then wounded other one critically then we took the revenge rightfully then they do that again How how sillly is that.

This shows that how great is the standard of indian media n how much r they controlled by their gov n how much it brainwashes their people against us so much so that the guy who has posted this calls Ilyas Kashmiri who is a kashmiri freedom fighter a SSG commando!!!!!!!

We in the other hand r so incompetent that we still pursue peace with them n send our citizens n teams in their country in hope of normalization of relations..

How funny is that!!!!

 

[Markus]

The anger is very much there indeed . Only an excellent commander would be able to handle this.



Well said Markus .....but i also believe that Mr @notorious_eagle is a wise man who does honest debates . He is a sober one.

Agree with you. I respect @notorious_eagle too. Didn't mean to be rude too him.

 

[janon]

This shows that how great is the standard of indian media n how much r they controlled by their gov n how much it brainwashes their people against us so much so that the guy who has posted this calls Ilyas Kashmiri who is a kashmiri freedom fighter a SSG commando!!!!!!!

How funny is that!!!!

And do you know what your brilliant SSG commando/freedom fighter did later? Tried to assassinate your army chief/president, got tortured by the Pakistan army, went into hiding in his hidey holes in the west, and got fried in a drone strike by USA, to the relief of Pakistani security forces. He was as much an enemy of Pakistan as he was of India. Most of your "strategic assets" and "freedom fighters" are, so no surprises there.