There are limits to our restraint: Pakistan tells India

[Zibago]

Now border shellings are Sir jee kal strikes hmm http://arytube.tv/fake-propaganda-of-indian-media-exposed/

 

[PakSword]

There is not a single shred of evidence that these four killed infiltrators were Pakistani citizens. Unless the Pakistani authorities cooperate, and match DNA samples with suspects, or simply asks the Army who these are, and enforces that question and ensures that it is answered honestly, there is no proof.

Agree. Pakistan should match the DNA sample in her database. But even if they are Pakistani attackers, how do you think Pakistan as a state was involved? You don't know about Pakistani sentiment towards Kashmir, Palestine and other areas based on the religious grounds. You can't say that in Pakistan, no one is intimidated who watches the women and small children being killed by Indian forces. And mark my words, when the middle east stabilizes, there will be a lot of people from Arab world you guys will catch. You can't do much on the difficult terrain on either side to stop them. Afghanistan, Pakistani Northern Areas and some central Asian republics are so difficult to monitor. I can't say they were Pakistanis or not, but I am sure Pakistan as a state is not involved. This is the reason why India and Pakistan negotiated on fenced border and Pakistan agreed with India to employ all measures that made it very difficult to cross LoC in mid 2000s.

Their navigation devices show where they started from, but who on the Pakistani side, other than those who know, will accept that these were not tampered with by us?

Not a reliable evidence. Now look from this perspective. Last time, you guys presented the same evidence (navigation devices). If Pakistan in involved in both the attacks, it is a suicide of Pakistani stance that she is not involved as no country will use the same method to navigate. Also, do you think that attackers use navigation when they attack? I don't think so!

Have there not been a thousand representations to the UN, to the EU, to the USA, to individual companies where some sympathy was hoped for

This time, Kashmiri freedom struggle again provided a chance for Pakistan to take up the case of Kashmiris in UNGA. Pakistan stopped taking Indian name in involvement in many of the terrorist attacks that were controlled by Indian embassies in Afghanistan despite evidences.

Nobody.

As a loyal and patriotic Indian, I abhor the treatment that has been meted out to the Kashmiris for fifty something years, and stand for a different approach. In every post even remotely concerning Kashmir, I have advocated it. The point is not what a nice chap I am but that a wide section of Indians believes that way. Go into Facebook and look up Moderate Voice of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh; there are two such fora, look for the one with Sualeh Keen and Shantiveer Kaul (my gurus). Read what they stand for. See how many members that group has, and see how we view Kashmir.

No diversion.

Our friends and dear comrades, ordinary Kashmiris, are in trouble. No question of diversion.

Thank you sir!

 

[SHAH07]

Yeah time to act because they are trying to disgrace us by claiming surgical strikes and it is also damaging our reputation

 

[Joe Shearer]

Agree. Pakistan should match the DNA sample in her database. But even if they are Pakistani attackers, how do you think Pakistan as a state was involved? You don't know about Pakistani sentiment towards Kashmir, Palestine and other areas based on the religious grounds. You can't say that in Pakistan, no one is intimidated who watches the women and small children being killed by Indian forces. And mark my words, when the middle east stabilizes, there will be a lot of people from Arab world you guys will catch. You can't do much on the difficult terrain on either side to stop them. Afghanistan, Pakistani Northern Areas and some central Asian republics are so difficult to monitor. I can't say they were Pakistanis or not, but I am sure Pakistan as a state is not involved. This is the reason why India and Pakistan negotiated on fenced border and Pakistan agreed with India to employ all measures that made it very difficult to cross LoC in mid 2000s.

Pakistan, as a state, has promised much; delivered little. All rendered a little futile by the tell-tale signal that whenever a party is to be sent across, there is a sudden outburst of firing and shelling, to force our troops to keep under cover.

Coming to the Middle East, there are more Bengalis than Arabs; telling us about the Arabs is not going to frighten us. I am not refusing you your right to make a point, but I do feel that there is a counter-point on some, or even many occasions.

Finally, if you ask any high-ranking military officer frankly, you will get the true answer. Not if you ask your diplomats or your elected representatives.

 

[Cash GK]

Let me talk about what I know is true.

The Samjhauta Express was, on the bulk of the available evidence at the moment, a rogue operation by a dangerous right wing group of religious fanatics who hate Muslims. This has not been proven; investigations and case building is going on, at a glacial pace. An Army officer was implicated, and there was huge disappointment in the country; the Indian Army is supposed to be virginal, as far as politics is concerned. He himself bitterly protested, saying that he had been specifically assigned to get close to the right-wing religious bigoted fringe element. After a very long investigation, the others are in detention, awaiting trial, but Col. Purohit, it has been recommended, is no longer in suspicion. The strings connecting him to the real group of perpetrators is very, very thin.

As far as the Army Public School horror is concerned, I request you to check with those who know from the Pakistani side. The entire external network of R&W was dissolved during the tenure of that most appalling PM, Inder Gujral. It was only two years ago, when Modi appointed the former R&W person as NSA, that efforts started at rebuilding the apparatus,

It takes decades to build a network, only days to demolish it. Think about it, how could there have been a non-existent operation organised by a non-existent organisation?

My dear friend.... Same as here... Raw use these things same ISI does in counter.. This is what we cal cupa cupi... He was acting officer.... What they have done with guest from other country... Most of all disrespect being host... As we have some common things in or coulture... Hosting guest in good manners is one of them.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Not a reliable evidence. Now look from this perspective. Last time, you guys presented the same evidence (navigation devices). If Pakistan in involved in both the attacks, it is a suicide of Pakistani stance that she is not involved as no country will use the same method to navigate. Also, do you think that attackers use navigation when they attack? I don't think so!

Of course they won't use GPS devices when they attack. As mentioned, the launch pads for these infiltrators is anywhere between 0.5 kms. to 3.0 kms. away from the LOC. The direction setting is required to navigate their way past the boundary and well into Indian territory to the point where the further movement is indicated by the lie of the land itself.

Pakistan has also perfected bland denial. When confronted with these devices and their settings, it is the most natural thing to say that they are hardly responsible for what lawless individuals buy, or their sponsoring organisations buy for them.

It is an open game between the two sides; one knows that the other has done something, the other knows that the one knows it has done something but can do nothing about it. There is mutual recognition that nothing drastic is going to happen, marked on one side by resignation, on the other by cheerful insouciance.

 

[Cash GK]

They

My dear friend.... Same as here... Raw use these things same ISI does in counter.. This is what we cal cupa cupi... He was acting officer.... What they have done with guest from other country... Most of all disrespect being host... As we have some common things in or coulture... Hosting guest in good manners is one of them.

burned them and not even let their family get into there.... This things will black spot on the face of brighter india

 

[Joe Shearer]

This time, Kashmiri freedom struggle again provided a chance for Pakistan to take up the case of Kashmiris in UNGA. Pakistan stopped taking Indian name in involvement in many of the terrorist attacks that were controlled by Indian embassies in Afghanistan despite evidences.

That is very difficult to understand. I have already shared one aspect of the history of intelligence agencies with you. Earlier, there was an urban legend that India maintained seventeen consular offices in Afghanistan, or several other equally untrue canards.

There are precisely five - Kabul, Mazhar-i-Sharif, Herat, Ghazni and Jalalabad. I am not sure how they are supposed to have supported a widespread conspiracy under those jerry-built conditions.

 

[Cyberian]

Pakistan winning domestically and internationally. Their democratically elected Hindu Extremist Prime Minister Narendra Modi looking like a cartoon.

 

[PakSword]

Pakistan, as a state, has promised much; delivered little. All rendered a little futile by the tell-tale signal that whenever a party is to be sent across, there is a sudden outburst of firing and shelling, to force our troops to keep under cover.

Coming to the Middle East, there are more Bengalis than Arabs; telling us about the Arabs is not going to frighten us. I am not refusing you your right to make a point, but I do feel that there is a counter-point on some, or even many occasions.

Finally, if you ask any high-ranking military officer frankly, you will get the true answer. Not if you ask your diplomats or your elected representatives.

I have asked someone who is in AD branch, my close relative. He knows the truth. There was an attempt by India to score some kills yesterday "coming in very close proximity in multiple sectors" (quoted were his exact words to be very honest. And that attempt failed miserably when Pakistan, knowing every bit of the movement due to prior intelligence reports, opened fire at the Indian soldiers and caught one while he was retreating. And Pakistanis are then denying them collecting the bodies (which is inhumane in my opinion). A couple of Pakistani soldiers were martyred and several others injured in the process. Indian casualties are quite a few as poor guys thought that they will easily cross first line of defense but they were fired from above, within twenty five meters to 50 meters of the LoC.

I know no one will believe but this is what I have heard from him.

India promised, not just Pakistan but Kashmiris as well, to hold a plebiscite and it has done "nothing". All other promises are quite small in front of this big one.

Regarding middle east, I am not threatening you. But this is what we have suffered as well. We have caught and killed Arabs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Afghans, chechens etc during NATO war on Afghan Talibans when all of a sudden Pakistani army was termed as Kafir by these guys. They are nowadays involved in Syria and Iraq and they turn where ever they think their brethren are being killed. The situation will not be just alarming to India, but for Pakistan as well. Remember, ISIS guys are being recruited from every country, including India and Pakistan.

Anyway, I respect your opinion if you still think all the accounts being told by your government and media are genuine.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

There is no word called as restraint, its only helplessness.
Come on pakistan do what your heart says.

There are 8 Indian dead bodies rotting on your side of LOC, please take them before they become the meal of strays dogs and vultures. For the captured one, he is safe with us for time being.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have asked someone who is in AD branch, my close relative. He knows the truth. There was an attempt by India to score some kills yesterday "coming in very close proximity in multiple sectors" (quoted were his exact words to be very honest. And that attempt failed miserably when Pakistan, knowing every bit of the movement due to prior intelligence reports, opened fire at the Indian soldiers and caught one while he was retreating. And Pakistanis are then denying them collecting the bodies (which is inhumane in my opinion). A couple of Pakistani soldiers were martyred and several others injured in the process. Indian casualties are quite a few as poor guys thought that they will easily cross first line of defense but they were fired from above, within twenty five meters to 50 meters of the LoC.

I know no one will believe but this is what I have heard from him.

India promised, not just Pakistan but Kashmiris as well, to hold a plebiscite and it has done "nothing". All other promises are quite small in front of this big one.

Regarding middle east, I am not threatening you. But this is what we have suffered as well. We have caught and killed Arabs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Afghans, chechens etc during NATO war on Afghan Talibans when all of a sudden Pakistani army was termed as Kafir by these guys. They are nowadays involved in Syria and Iraq and they turn where ever they think their brethren are being killed. The situation will not be just alarming to India, but for Pakistan as well. Remember, ISIS guys are being recruited from every country, including India and Pakistan.

Anyway, I respect your opinion if you still think all the accounts being told by your government and media are genuine.

Regarding your last line, I am listening to your account very, very carefully.

There are 8 Indian dead bodies rotting on your side of LOC, please take them before they become the meal of strays dogs and vultures. For the captured one, he is safe with us for time being.

I remember scolding hellfire for being tough with you, and wanted him to respect you and your views. What was I thinking of?

@banvanaxl
@Cash GK
@Musafir117
@PakSword
@SirHatesALot

A very sensible post, a soldier's point of view.

10 hrs ·

The problem is with ballistic social media and self congratulatory anchors and panelists. They feel as if the world has suddenly changed and we are now "the third most powerful nation in the world" after USA and Israel...Why, you wonder? Well, because they respond to strikes and we have done just that.

This is really the height of irresponsible analysis.

There is no sudden "new" doctrine in the air...No great sudden new capability which we already did not have. People with a bit of wisdom know that strikes on the LOC have always taken place; were perhaps not advertised as much.

Chill, I say. We have quietly done what was needed to be done. A responsible Army, we have done it right. No need to shout, scream, get hyper and all of that.

Far better to limit damages when Pak strikes and then consider what is needed next...

Far better to give us quality equipment to go with our quality soldiers and leadership; operations planners.

Without screaming, we can be proud of Gen Hooda, the Chief, the MO Dte and its planners and certainly the lads who dun it...They did right and they did it without shouting or needless Adrenalin.

They did it right.

 

[Mav3rick]

Now border shellings are Sir jee kal strikes hmm http://arytube.tv/fake-propaganda-of-indian-media-exposed/

Ofcourse it is!

When their shells land in Pakistani territory, they consider the strike surgical.......when it lands within India it is non-surgical/general strike.

 

[banvanaxl]

Regarding your last line, I am listening to your account very, very carefully.



I remember scolding hellfire for being tough with you, and wanted him to respect you and your views. What was I thinking of?

@banvanaxl
@Cash GK
@Musafir117
@PakSword
@SirHatesALot

A very sensible post, a soldier's point of view.

10 hrs ·

The problem is with ballistic social media and self congratulatory anchors and panelists. They feel as if the world has suddenly changed and we are now "the third most powerful nation in the world" after USA and Israel...Why, you wonder? Well, because they respond to strikes and we have done just that.

This is really the height of irresponsible analysis.

There is no sudden "new" doctrine in the air...No great sudden new capability which we already did not have. People with a bit of wisdom know that strikes on the LOC have always taken place; were perhaps not advertised as much.

Chill, I say. We have quietly done what was needed to be done. A responsible Army, we have done it right. No need to shout, scream, get hyper and all of that.

Far better to limit damages when Pak strikes and then consider what is needed next...

Far better to give us quality equipment to go with our quality soldiers and leadership; operations planners.

Without screaming, we can be proud of Gen Hooda, the Chief, the MO Dte and its planners and certainly the lads who dun it...They did right and they did it without shouting or needless Adrenalin.

They did it right.

Sir, The kind of jingoism and chest thumping currently going on in the Indian media is appalling.

Arnab will be Arnab, no so suprises there, but NDTV and India Today, (the sober voices, IMHO) were no better last night.

But I'll play the devils advocate here. ..

What I hope that we can all agree upon is the tsunami of public anger, shame, humiliation and pain had to be assuaged.
40 odd years since 1971, we have been mauled and brutalized with impunity and our successive governments have been well .. In the words of Sunny Deol " Tareekh pey Taareek, Mila to bas Tareekh"

While the jubilation over dead bodies was crass, the chest thumping was crude and best avoided, our citizens can I believe, be allowed to bask in this moment ..

We have waited for this too bloody long ...

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I remember scolding hellfire for being tough with you, and wanted him to respect you and your views. What was I thinking of?

Tough with me? I have already extinguished fire from hell of this chap. However, you lot are free to do the circus among yourself for our entertainment.